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[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

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5 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

My guess is that everyone in the Hewett family treated her like crap (hence, her desire for revenge on them), and when Euron showed up she really wanted to believe this was her fairy tale deliverance, because of how appealing the idea of being loved is.  It seems like she has compassionate qualities too, since she's being quite nice to Aeron, who it should be pretty obvious to her that Euron doesn't like him.

The way GRMM wrote Falia here is perplexing. In the first chapter, she was the one who order her half-sisters and stepmother to serve naked. Here, she's nice to Aeron and acts like a young, dreaming girl. Was she too naive to know how dire her action were? 

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@Veltigar

Oh, come on, that horn isn't going to travel up to the Wall again. If things went that way and if the Others needed the Wall to come down via the horn before they could make their book move this could easily mean 2-3 books between TWoW and the final attack of the Others.

After all, winter has come. Nobody near Oldtown right now should have any interest or incentive to travel north to the Wall. Nobody at all. And Euron least of all people.

Do you actually believe that Euron crap about the dragon egg? I always thought and still think this is in the same category as the talk about him being to Valyria. There is no proof for that claim we know of, and thus I'm also very reluctant to consider any theories proposing Euron lied about throwing the dragon egg into the sea and instead doing other stuff with it. We have no proof he ever had a dragon egg.

The only way I see him having a real dragon egg is if it turned out that the Greyjoys of all people ended up with a Targaryen bride. Egg's sisters might also have had dragon eggs and they could have passed them on to their children. But right now that would be pretty far-fetched.

The best explanation for Euron's talk about dragon eggs is to keep in mind that he knows about Daenerys and her hatching dragons from three dragon eggs. Talking about dragon eggs makes sense in that context, as does claiming you once owned one if that's just crap.

As to Valyrian steel:

We have to keep in mind that the Qohorik still can reforge Valyrian steel. So it might have not been that big a secret just very difficult and expensive to do (involving dragons and lots of sacrifices). And one should assume that the steel wouldn't be named 'Valyrian steel' if it wasn't associated with Valyria in general but rather with a certain school/family/group from Valyria.

Well, that black cloth with the horn wasn't deep in the ground nor was it winter at that time. Stuff grows and dies and rots beyond the Wall just as anywhere else. At least in summer.

I must say I don't know who the Night's Queen is supposed to be. Assuming such a woman exists is pretty far-fetched with our current knowledge. But then, I still prefer my Cersei idea there. Often prophecies/visions are referring to actual people in the books. The counterexample I can think of right now would be the dwarfs and the woman.

And if George wanted us to get a hint towards the Others he could have been more precise in a number of ways. Say, make some of the throngs on the Iron Throne out of ice, have Euron wear a crown of ice, or other winter/ice related symbolism.

46 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

That does make sense and fits the vision.  Maybe he waits till the battle is over and he's in the Narrow Sea on his way to Dany before he starts with the throat cutting.  Blood sacrifices to get him good winds or something like that.   

I think the sea of blood (when referring to Euron as in Moqorro's vision - the burning longships on a sea of blood might be Victarion's near Slaver's Bay after they faced a dragon's wrath) does refer to the victory over the Redwynes. After the battle is over the sea might either be literally (not so likely) or figuratively a sea of blood because thousands of people will have died.

The fact that Euron is giving his ship special treatment in regards to prow-sacrifices should be considered, too. As I've said earlier my idea is that those people might serve as offerings to whatever creatures Euron is going to summon, not so much as actual fuel for the spell. The analogy I used was blood sacrifices serving as a protective spells similar to the blood at the doors that protected the Israelites from god's wrath in the Exodus story. Euron might allow whatever spirits/demon he is going to summon to feast on the life of the prow people on the condition that they spare the rest of the ship.

As to how the Damphair might get away to preach another day:

He is tied to the prow with leather straps. As I've said above, leather actually does not 'shrink' as the chapter claims when it gets wet (unless in English this can also mean 'widen' in that context). It widens. So Aeron should have a fighting chance to wriggle himself out of his bonds and jump into the sea after the leather has gotten wet enough. He is a better chance of surviving there than with Euron.

@Colonel Green

That would be my view, too. We know that she was stupid to trust Euron but from her POV the man had no reason to be nice to her and give her gifts and stuff, so it is easy to see why she thought he genuinely liked her or had at least no intention to hurt/kill her. She had no way of knowing who and what he was. She would also have known that Ironborn take salt wives, so she would have had any reason to think she was as 'safe' as one could be as a woman in the confines of that 'social construct'.

@Ibbison from Ibben

Well, that's interesting. I'd laugh if Robert had been too stupid to realize that he had a bunch of Valyrian steel armor in his stolen castle. But one should assume that other people would have figured out what those things were. On the other hand, if nobody had actually touched or investigated them since the Sack then, well, they might be Valyrian steel.

But then the Targaryens most likely had long forgotten that they had stuff like that. Else they would have worn it in battle.

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5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, that's interesting. I'd laugh if Robert had been too stupid to realize that he had a bunch of Valyrian steel armor in his stolen castle. But one should assume that other people would have figured out what those things were. On the other hand, if nobody had actually touched or investigated them since the Sack then, well, they might be Valyrian steel.

But then the Targaryens most likely had long forgotten that they had stuff like that. Else they would have worn it in battle.

Maybe those suits were especially made for ground-based anti-dragon warfare. Once all the dragons were dead, the Targs put them on display like a museum. That gallery seems to be in a very obscure corner of the Red Keep, and the suits might have been there for 150 years. Dunno. They don't seem to have the glyphs of Euron's armor. But those armor suits are one of my favorite unexplained mysteries, and Euron's armor tweaked my memory.

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3 minutes ago, Ibbison from Ibben said:

Maybe those suits were especially made for ground-based anti-dragon warfare. Once all the dragons were dead, the Targs put them on display like a museum. That gallery seems to be in a very obscure corner of the Red Keep, and the suits might have been there for 150 years. Dunno. They don't seem to have the glyphs of Euron's armor. But those armor suits are one of my favorite unexplained mysteries, and Euron's armor tweaked my memory.

Speaking about that - if Euron acquires a Valyrian steel sword in addition to his suit of armor (or already has one) then he is actually my number one candidate for a future dragonslayer - perhaps the only one in the entire series.

That is, if the magic of the armor protects him from the dragonfire.

My idea about that armor was that Robert put them there to get them out of sight just as he put the dragon skulls (and presumably other valuables in the Targaryen colors or depicting the Targaryen banner) away.

The Dance and previously possibly Maegor's reign could have cut the Targaryens off from their past so there is a chance that Aegon III and his successor had no clue what they had in those armors. But then, wouldn't have Aegon II and Aemond worn armor like that if they had known it could protect them from dragonfire?

In any case, thanks to your finding there I feel free to say that we should at least not take Aeron Greyjoy as expert on Valyrian steel armor or assume that his knowledge about that topic is complete. He concludes Euron must have been in Valyria after all after he sees him in that armor, but we, the readers, still tend to agree with the Reader on that topic, are we not?

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14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

My idea about that armor was that Robert put them there to get them out of sight just as he put the dragon skulls (and presumably other valuables in the Targaryen colors or depicting the Targaryen banner) away.

The Dance and previously possibly Maegor's reign could have cut the Targaryens off from their past so there is a chance that Aegon III and his successor had no clue what they had in those armors. But then, wouldn't have Aegon II and Aemond worn armor like that if they had known it could protect them from dragonfire?

In any case, thanks to your finding there I feel free to say that we should at least not take Aeron Greyjoy as expert on Valyrian steel armor or assume that his knowledge about that topic is complete. He concludes Euron must have been in Valyria after all after he sees him in that armor, but we, the readers, still tend to agree with the Reader on that topic, are we not?

There's no way the Targaryens forgot they had suits of Valyrian steel armour lying around.  And Aeron is able to identify its nature on sight, so I can't imagine people in the Red Keep couldn't.

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1 minute ago, Colonel Green said:

There's no way the Targaryens forgot they had suits of Valyrian steel armour lying around.  And Aeron is able to identify its nature on sight, so I can't imagine people in the Red Keep couldn't.

Yeah, it's not very likely. People at court do know how Valyrian steel looks like.

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A veritable treasure trove of Valyrian steel would not be ignored. It's kind of hard to miss, since it has it's own distinctive look. Those armours might be inspired by original Valyrian steel armour though (or more likely, made to mimick dragons, just like the original Valyrian steel armour was). I mean, come on people, Littlefinger of all people passed them. He would have stolen that armour quicker than you can say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious if they had been made out of Valyrian Steel.

31 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

@Veltigar

Oh, come on, that horn isn't going to travel up to the Wall again. If things went that way and if the Others needed the Wall to come down via the horn before they could make their book move this could easily mean 2-3 books between TWoW and the final attack of the Others.

Who knows what that horn is going to do and in what timeframe. The Others might pass the wall before, but still want it to come down (say, if the wall also functions as a sort of inhibitor on their magic). Perhaps it won't even be needed to tear down the wall, perhaps the horn's ability is indeed more general, as LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse supposes. You wondered how Euron would take the Hightower for instance, perhaps he is unable too, but gets a little help from the horn to level the playing field as it were.

34 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Do you actually believe that Euron crap about the dragon egg?

I do actually. Dragon eggs are hardly unique items. Extremely valuable yes, definitely, but it wasn't as if Illyrio gave Dany the last three dragon eggs in the world. They were seen as extremely precious curiosa, but curiosa they were nonetheless. So yeah plenty of possibilities for Euron to have gotten his hands on an egg.

37 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

As to Valyrian steel:

We have to keep in mind that the Qohorik still can reforge Valyrian steel. So it might have not been that big a secret just very difficult and expensive to do (involving dragons and lots of sacrifices). 

Reforging is not the same as making something anew. The true difficulty with Valyrian Steel lies in reproducing the raw material, which possesses all the rare and precious qualities, not in forging that raw material into actual weapons. That's why the Qohorik are able to reforge whatever is left of the material, but are unable to create new Valyrian steel from scratch. 

42 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 And one should assume that the steel wouldn't be named 'Valyrian steel' if it wasn't associated with Valyria in general but rather with a certain school/family/group from Valyria.

Lol, come on LV you can't be serious here XD We have loads of brandnames in the real world which (e.g. Cote d'Or, Australian Homemade, American express, etc.) which are owned by a certain group of people and generally speaking have nothing to do with the nation or area they take their name from in general. Plus, leaving brandnames aside you have geonomen like Belgian beer, Chinese food, Suisse cheese, etc. which refer to a particular geographic area without identifying the hundreds of different sort of cuisines that make up Chinese food or the different sorts of cheese you can buy in Switzerland or the thousand of different brands of Belgian beer, etc. 

51 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, that black cloth with the horn wasn't deep in the ground nor was it winter at that time. Stuff grows and dies and rots beyond the Wall just as anywhere else. At least in summer.

Perhaps the show is screwing with my mind, but wasn't it buried in a snowy landscape? And if so, ther is no reason to assume that the snow ever retreated from that place.

 

53 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I think the sea of blood (when referring to Euron as in Moqorro's vision - the burning longships on a sea of blood might be Victarion's near Slaver's Bay after they faced a dragon's wrath) does refer to the victory over the Redwynes. After the battle is over the sea might either be literally (not so likely) or figuratively a sea of blood because thousands of people will have died.

What you are actually saying is that the sea will be red, because Euron is going to spill a massive amount of redwyne :leer: (Alright I'm leaving now :P ) 

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4 hours ago, Maia said:

But the thing is, the Greyjoy uncles were introduced as early as Theon's arrival on Pyke in ACoK - both Aeron and Victarion appeared on-screen, we have heard the story of Aeron's conversion and personality change, Euron, his eery ship and his reputation were repeatedly name-dropped, etc. And at the end of ACoK Theon was taken prisoner by Ramsey, which made him being the person in Dany's vision very unlikely. Then in ASoS we heard about him being slowly flayed, etc. which made it even less likely. The reasons to think that it was about him were always rather flimsy - "grey lips smiling sadly" - smiley Greyjoy - Theon. Not to mention that somebody had to be the "dread" of this vision, no? And Theon didn't fit that role at all.

Now, I'd be the first to admit that some elements of the story grew - or bloated if one sees it that way, beyond what GRRM intended when he wrote Dany's vision in  HoTU. All  travel segments, most of what happened in Meeren, very likely Dorne, and history overview delivered via Brienne's trek through the Riverlands look like initially not intended post-ASoS developments. However, after reading this chapter, it is pretty clear, IMHO, that the Ironborn storyline wasn't a late addition. What hurt it was GRRM's deferral of it, due to scrapping of the 5-year-gap. 

Wow, hey Maia. Long time no type.

Thing for me is this: I brought up the vision and my former interpretation of it as Theon as an example. At the time, the imagery worked. Tied to a prow, grey lips smiling sadly-- Greyjoy. And again, at the time [ACoK] the only Greyjoys of any textual significance were Balon, Asha, The Damphair and Theon and of the four I surmised it was Theon. The only thing that didn't fit was, as you say, dread, but once more, at that time-- I don't think anyone could've predicted Theon's arc as with a few bad decisions and foolish pride he was looking to turn quite bad. 

So I look at it this way. By the time ACoK was published, Martin knew he was shooting for five books at the time? I mean, he knew the trilogy was out by that point, right, but he hadn't proposed making it a seven book series yet, not that I've heard anyway. So, by the time ACoK was published I was under the impression of the sequence being: AGoT, ACoK, ASoS, ADwD, TWoW et fini. At this point, what you say in your second paragraph makes sense, of course, but I'm not sure it changes my overall opinion to a large extent. Some of the details, sure, but say you're completely right and Martin had decided on this arc of Euron's as he was drafting ACoK. Yet no progression for Euron in ASoS even? I don't know.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan and I love the world, the characters, the writing. And working on my own novel, I'm well aware how easily things can grow beyond one's control when you've created a large world that your story inhabits. There's something that pulls on you, as a writer, when that portion of the map that hasn't yet been enveloped into the story beckons, a story whose scope would certainly affect everyone and everywhere to some extent or another. But, hard decisions are also a part of writing. And Martin is a slow writer, no foul in that at all-- but Martin himself has stated on several occasions how he doesn't like working from outlines, and as a fan who would love to see this story completed, I have to say that it's troubling. 

When an author who meant to write three, turned it into five with a gap, then removed the gap and increased the novel count to seven... when that author hasn't in any large way touched upon an allegedly major arc until book six?

Hmn... And now that we're heading toward what's looking more like eight books instead of seven, I'm curious about why, if Euron has always been the design [for a writer who likes to craft organically, no outlines] why he hasn't cut Euron's arc by this point. A lot of it really doesn't make any sense, anyway I look at it.

So when I complain about filler, and bloat, it's because it's an apparent and continuous issue. And instead of seeing Martin do anything about it, he's actually continuing with it despite all these other, newer distractions as well [ HBO, etc] I mean, by the sound of it the Meereenese Knot won't even be resolved until the last third of TWoW... and I'm somehow to believe that Dany and company can join the main plot, and all else besides [including our new big bad] will be dealt with in one more book? It'll be eight books more like, and god forbid it might even be nine. 

Martin has the talent sure, but... I just don't know. My faith is getting thin. :(

Edited by JEORDHl

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I think there is a whole lot of foreshadowing that Theon is to be king - with a twist:

He's a cripple. And a eunuch. Having exchanged one captor for another, his situation is only better in that Stannis is not actively torturing him - he is merely kept in chains and fed until the day of his end. He won't be able to travel far or fast. And if by some miracle he gets back to the Iron Islands, they'll never have him. Nor will anywhere else: the whole eunuch thing will be too big a problem for a position that is, after all, by and large meant to be hereditary (although not so on the Iron Islands). His record is hardly great: he has nothing to brag about, no great achievements that didn't turn to disaster. He has, plain and simple, nothing to offer the ironborn... and Asha also knows that he has no hope of escape. Even if Stannis loses the battle, Theon cannot flee anywhere in the chaos, he will only die in the snow if he is not retaken. His only hope even of a "clean" death is if Stannis goes ahead with his promise of execution by beheading... which is why Asha pleaded for Theon's death to be by the sword, the Northern way, rather than by the fire, the way Stannis has dealt with other criminals on the march (murderers and cannibals among his own forces - never simply for refusing to bow to the Lord of Light.)

...Except that, unlike everybody else, he is the only person of whom it can be said that he did not either stake a claim that was rejected (Asha, Victarion, Ironmaker, Farwynd) or be present and fail to stake a claim of his own, thus acquiescing to the Kingsmoot's choice (like every other lord who did not stand.)

He can't live as a king.

But, thanks to his claim being unresolved, he can *die* as a king. I think he will be one of the "two kings to wake the dragon ... fire and blood to wake the dragon" that may relate to Melisandre's prophecy. And, of course, since he is due an execution for his former crimes - and Stannis has promised that he will do it the Northern way, by beheading, which at least is quick - then he will fulfil the "blood" part, which means that if the prophecy is true, another king will die in fire (a king, not a child princess, hint hint: and guess which king has already seen a flame-vision of a king burning away to ashes?), possibly as part of the same incident.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for Euron and the Faceless Men: What is the FM's price - is it "give to them", or "give up" what they most value, as the price for their services? If so, Euron might conceivably have had a dragon egg and thrown it into the sea... (but WHERE? Was it near where Balon fell? Was it near Pyke? Or indeed, was it near Old Wyk where the kingsmoot was held?)

Since when he has done, or at least paid for, a murder which could be seen almost as a blood sacrifice since the Faceless Men have a religious-ritual element to them. And he has had the dragon horn blown three times, presumably after doing whatever was necessary to bind it to his ownership. In a hall, on a hill, that are said to have been built from the bones of a sea dragon. So... We have a dragon horn that has been blown three times, a missing dragon egg, a blood sacrifice (it took fire and blood to hatch Daenerys's three) and a whole lot of "sea dragon" imagery around (even a Sea Dragon Point at the closest point of the mainland to the Iron Isles). As far as I can see, this is all too much to be coincidence...

And if he really *did* give up his dragon egg, only to hatch it and gain control of the resulting dragon (and it looks like dragons grow FAST - look how fast Daenerys's three have grown) - then he has ended up paying nothing and got an extra ace up his sleeve: in short he's double-crossed the Faceless Men. Which could conceivably explain if Jaqen / Pate is in Oldtown looking to steal the book that Euron wants, to prevent it falling into his hands should he sack the town. Either that, or the FM (or a faction among them) are working with him and Jaqen is there to help Euron, but I'm not sure that's actually the case...

In any case. Since Dany isn't going to meet Victarion over there (Victarion is not going to sit in Meereen for unspecified time, he's there to grab and go)... it's what the dragon horn does, and who is its master. If Euron is still the horn's master, then he gets a dragon (probably Rhaegal, who was reported as flying near the ironborn ships in a Tyrion chapter): if Victarion has broken Euron's control on the horn thanks to Moqorro, then I think Euron already has insurance against that, and a plan to defeat his brother and take control of whatever Victarion brings back. (see all the sea-dragon imagery above: also if he has any means of power over krakens, to sink Victarion's ship, that would work too.)

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Well, thinking about the shadow-woman again she could just be Aeron's mental representation of 'the dragon queen' Falia Flowers told him about. By this time Aeron knows that Euron is looking for some dragon queen wife and his mind have created an image of her. In such a scenario she wouldn't be symbolizing anything *real* at all.

@Veltigar

Ah, well, don't buy any of that horn stuff, I'm sorry. We'll have to wait and see how that turns out.

As to dragon eggs:

We have yet to see any other genuine dragon egg at this point. We don't know for sure where Dany's eggs came from but it seems not very likely that Illyrio just bought them so I'm not exactly inclined to buy that Euron captured some trader who happened to have a dragon egg on board. That would be pretty lucky and one should assume that ships and traders carrying such valuables wouldn't travel alone, making it even more unlikely that a man like Euron could capture such a ship.

TWoIaF has hints that the Qohorik might be able to do more than just reforge Valyrian steel, though. Maester Pol's report suggest that they might actually be able or at least try to make Qohorik steel 'to equal to that of the Freehold'. That could be a hint that they actually do know how to make Valyrian steel, they just lack the dragons.

As to brands:

I did not consider that a great argument but unlike modern trading goods Valyrian steel never was something you could buy easily. If I was a member of the group in Valyria making this super special steel I'd name after me or my group, not the city. Especially if Valyria itself had little to do with the whole thing, and you couldn't actually purchase Valyrian steel from your average Valyrian (dragonlord).

The horn and stuff wasn't buried in any snow at all. It only began to snow at/near the Fist when the wights came. Remember how pissed Chett was when the snow ruined his 'grand plan'? Besides, you also remember that the Fist is in the middle of the forest surrounded by trees and plants of all kind. We are talking about land here in which trees and other bigger plants, animals, and humans can still live (or at least exist). That necessitates that it is not frozen and full of snow all the time.

So, no, there is a very small chance that this stuff lay there for thousands of years undisturbed. The whole thing might indeed be a hint that Benjen is (or at least was) still out there at this time.

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Lady Valena Toland tells Princess Arianne Martell that there are tales of krakens off the Broken Arm, pulling under crippled galleys. Valena says their maester claims that the blood draws them to the surface. She adds that there are bodies which remain in the water, while a few have washed up on Ghost Hill's shores. Euron will use priests to summon krakens

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48 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Yet no progression for Euron in ASoS even? I don't know.

Balon was killed in ASOS, which clears the way for a new Ironborn king.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The horn and stuff wasn't buried in any snow at all. 

The show has been messing with my mind again. Damn that mediocre piece of filth!

20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

We have yet to see any other genuine dragon egg at this point. We don't know for sure where Dany's eggs came from but it seems not very likely that Illyrio just bought them so I'm not exactly inclined to buy that Euron captured some trader who happened to have a dragon egg on board. That would be pretty lucky and one should assume that ships and traders carrying such valuables wouldn't travel alone, making it even more unlikely that a man like Euron could capture such a ship.

Ah, but you assume it must be luck, which isn't necessarily the case. Sure, it's a possibility that he just lucked out on one of his random raids, but far more likely is that he actually actively sought out an opportunity to steal a dragon egg. After all, he does seem to have been obsessed with magic and flying for quite a while. Come to think of it, the same might have happened with the Qartheen warlocks. Perhaps Euron (and I'm riffing a bit here, but if he is in cahoots with the FM they could probably provide him with intell) got a tip that Pryat Pree and companions were on the move and intercepted them to releave them from their magical treasures. 

25 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

TWoIaF has hints that the Qohorik might be able to do more than just reforge Valyrian steel, though. Maester Pol's report suggest that they might actually be able or at least try to make Qohorik steel 'to equal to that of the Freehold'. That could be a hint that they actually do know how to make Valyrian steel, they just lack the dragons.

That could very well be, but as long as they have no access to dragonfire, it's an entirely moot point. 

26 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

As to brands:

I did not consider that a great argument but unlike modern trading goods Valyrian steel never was something you could buy easily. If I was a member of the group in Valyria making this super special steel I'd name after me or my group, not the city. Especially if Valyria itself had little to do with the whole thing, and you couldn't actually purchase Valyrian steel from your average Valyrian (dragonlord).

Meh, I think for most people, Valyria just speaks more to the imagination than dragonlord family X steel. A bit like Tyrian purple, which was also highly exclusive in the old days, and was named for the city from where it came from instead of the individual traders families. 

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12 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

Balon was killed in ASOS, which clears the way for a new Ironborn king.

Oh, well... when you put it like that, it really is a good push for major player looming to factor large toward the end game. Come on... hahaha [coughs] Sorry, I know I'm derailing and sarcasm doesn't help, but that emboldens the point.

That said, I'll drop it and am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. It's not like I have a choice, I have to at this point.

Le sigh.  

Edited by JEORDHl

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6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

@LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse

I just don't buy the idea that some small horn supposedly hidden by some NW man not so long ago (you know, because else the black cloth would have been rotted away) is the big magical horn.

 

 

Hidden for a reason…. Alongside the weapon to defeat the others. What other purpose can that horn have?

Besides, if the huge horn seemingly powerfull horn Mance used to bluff jon with, was fake, then the real horn should be the opposite, dirty, small and broken.

Quote

Not to mention that it would be a rather boring story if it turned out that the Others needed Euron and Samwell for their grand plan, not to mention that, again, the idea that the horn blown down south is either not going to affect the Wall at all or has to affect the entire continent. And this would have to mean that a lot of castles and houses will come tumbling down aside from the Wall.

I say interesting rather than boring.. Humans enabling the apocalypse is totally GRRM stuff IMHO.

I stand with the theory that the whole westeros will shake... maybe the whole world.

The Wall is taller than most castles, probably more unstable.

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And there is little chance that Euron will get his hands on Sam's horn (or care about that if he did) before he faces the Redwyne fleet.

i agree with that. who said anything about sounding the horn before he faces the redwyne fleet?

if he does, he will do so after that battle.. after he takes oldtown.

Quote

 

If Theon is ever going to rule the Iron Islands then the Ironborn will be as castrated as he is. They are very unlikely to take a mutilated eunuch as their king of their own free will, so we would have to imagine they would have to be as broken as he is to accept somebody like him.

But I actually consider it more likely that Asha was the last hope of the Ironborn. Peace was the only way to save their lives. But they choose Euron as his travesty of the old way. Now they are going to pay. This time dragonfire might cleanse the Iron Islands for good.

And, of course, there won't be a Kingsmoot again. Not many Ironborn will ever return to their rocks after they decided to leave with Euron.

a number of scenarios could play out.

i find likely that post Euron ironborn will be much more reasonable.

often defeat does that to people,. There are hints of a progresive faction in the Iron Islands.

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Does anyone else think that Euron is a load of talk and nothing else? I can see him beating Paxter's fleet, but I think he'll meet his end at Oldtown. His fancy armour doesn't help much if someone shoots him in the eye (Samwell). And despite Moqorro's words, nothing hints at him having to be a major force in the series. He's prominent in the vision there, yes, but Victarion has the ships. I think he's a false flag, a red herring. I don't think GRRM will introduce any new dragons or anything into the series this late in the game. He won't go up to the wall either, it's a ridiculous nothing at this point.

I think he's delusional. Drunk on the black oily Kool-Aid. His open defiance to the Gods I think and Aeron's vehement condemnation towards him probably spells his end. Not that the Gods have to be real, but GRRM is very ambiguous as to their nature and this type of open defiance I don't see lasting for too much longer, if only to keep the mystery alive. And even more so, the bold imagery of him sitting on the Iron Throne is way too on the nose and upfront for GRRM. He obscures things and has subtlety. I think he is as mad as everyone suggests and he won't amount to a whole lot in the end. He'll certainly cause some damage, and he's quite a keen strategist all things considered, but nothing more. 

I think he beats Paxter and the battle is bloody. He tries to besiege Oldtown from there. Aegon and Jon Con beat Tarly and march over to Oldtown and they crush Euron in between them. 

 

As for Falia, I didn't like her at first because of her celebrating what happened to her family. Now it's more clear she was mistreated by them and hated them. And her situation must have been desperate enough that Euron seemed like a saviour to her. 

Also, Euron confirmed for child molester? 

Edited by King in the Narrow Sea

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On 30 May 2016 at 4:15 AM, Nights Kings Queen said:

Reading that closely resembled the pain I felt when I read the red wedding chapter. George please save Dany from this murderous child molester

Sadly it does relate to marriage. Not only does it relate to marriage, it relates to love (hence why hizzy isn't shown). There was 3 sets of three different visions that the undying showed Dany. "daughter of death", "bride of fire", "slayer of lies". In the "bride of fire" section it showed her silver in a setting that resembled the place she lost her maidenhood to Drogo (representing her marriage to Drogo), the next showed Aeron dead at the prow of Silence (which I guess represents her marriage to Euron... I really don't know at this point), and the last one showed a blue rose growing from a chink of ice (confirming R+L=J, and representing her marriage to Jon... I guess).

Like I said, Hizdhar isn't there because it's "bride of fire". There's no fire (love) in their relationship.

And as for the thing with the dwarfs. In Dany's vision it represented the war of the five kings (5 dwarfs abusing a beautiful woman - westeros), in Aeron's there are more dwarfs. My guess being more kings and queens have risen, or rising up since dany was in the HOTU. Which was something Mel warned Stannis about, that more pretenders would rise, or something.

I think Danny will fall for Euron. Daario is probably a pre-cursor to show us the kind of man Danny likes. She can't be with Daario as he's just a sellsword but Euron is a KING! 

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13 hours ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

 

that leaves, theon. aeron doesn´t think of him, because theon is dead as far as he knows..

whose name means Godly. and only a Godly man may sit the seastone chair. he also has the legal precedent to overthrow Eurons kingsmoot..

sure Euron seems invincible right now.. but i doubt he will win in the end. his quest is folly.

When Aeron was praying to the Drowned God in his first AFFC chapter, he said:

"Who shall be our king in Balon’s place? Sing to me in the language of leviathan, that I may know his name."

Which ASOIAF character is associated with "you have to know your name"?

 

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On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 5:48 AM, JLE said:

Where is there *any* evidence of a connection between Bloodraven and Euron?

Where is there *any* evidence of Bloodraven having made a "big mistake"? Book, chapter, text?

 

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 5:49 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Yeah, I agree that there is no evidence for it.

But the reference to Euron dreaming that he could fly, when he was young, certainly hints to his greenseeing talent. Whether he was contacted by Bloodraven thereafter, however, well, we have no evidence for that.

 

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 5:55 AM, Lord Varys said:

This is actual the implicit evidence for that. After all, Bran wasn't just dreaming about flying all by himself. Bloodraven talked to him about that.

So if Euron's talk about his dream is intended as a reference to Bran, then it most likely also refers to Bloodraven contactin Bran and Euron. This is by no means yet confirmed beyond the shadow of a doubt but actually not unlikely.

If I may...

 

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2 hours ago, Hadesa said:

Lady Valena Toland tells Princess Arianne Martell that there are tales of krakens off the Broken Arm, pulling under crippled galleys. Valena says their maester claims that the blood draws them to the surface. She adds that there are bodies which remain in the water, while a few have washed up on Ghost Hill's shores. Euron will use priests to summon krakens

What you have quoted suggests that the battle being prepared for in this chapter has already occurred. I think if people take a look at a map, they will see that it is quite a distance back to Oldtown (this also suggests Euron went right on past on his way to this battle). I really don't think Euron is going to turn around and go back. I think he will continue on to Meereen from this battle.

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