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Zenthious

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The merger of coldhands and Benjen makes me think the chances of LSH showing up have increased.

 

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House Zombie-Stark: How many of you correctly guessed that (asoiaf/got) would end in a battle royale between rival zombie factions?

 

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No. No. No. No. No. Please no. We are finally slowly getting rid of redudant characters, let's not bring more back, let's not open more storylines, we have enough existing ones. Nobody needs Lady Stoneheart. Especially after all this time. I want people to die and not come back. We have less than 20 episodes left as word has it, now is not the time to open new storylines. We need closure and not zombie Starks... Who needs more Starks, there are so many Starks. Just let the bloody Starks rest in piece with the rest of the dead characters. Old gods and new, all bloody gods, please no Lady Stoneheart, please please please please please. 

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1 hour ago, Vastet said:

I've been thinking LSH isn't necessarily gone from the show for a few episodes now. I will not be surprised either way.

That's a refreshingly healthy attitude, being willing to wait and see how things play out instead of being zealously aligned to either one side or the other without dispositive evidence to support either one.

I was at first surprised Catelyn wasn’t seen again pretty quickly on, the way it is in the books. But after a few seasons, I didn't see any opening for her to put in an appearance, and figured that was that.  I really didn't expect to see her ever again.  I’m still not completely convinced.

But the showrunners are seldom subtle in their telegraphed payoffs.  We already saw it with Benjen, being teased about his return at the end of last season by Olly.

Catelyn they've never let us forget, and the echoes of her are stronger now and more frequent.  She's a big part of the themes of “the North remembers” and “a time for wolves”. We know that the actor playing Thoros is back this season, and probably next episode.  But I don’t expect him to utter his now-famous line:

“Lord Beric’s fire has gone out of this world, I fear. A grimmer shadow leads us in his place.”

Because that would lead too quickly to the great reveal, and though the hour is late, I’m guessing it's still a couple episodes too soon for the great Red Wedding payback in which the Freys and the Lannisters alike get their final comeuppance — however that plays out.

Jon needs to retake Winterfell first; only then can the bloody Red Wedding be put right.

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5 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

No. No. No. No. No. Please no. We are finally slowly getting rid of redudant characters, let's not bring more back, let's not open more storylines, we have enough existing ones. Nobody needs Lady Stoneheart. Especially after all this time. I want people to die and not come back. We have less than 20 episodes left as word has it, now is not the time to open new storylines. We need closure and not zombie Starks... Who needs more Starks, there are so many Starks. Just let the bloody Starks rest in piece with the rest of the dead characters. Old gods and new, all bloody gods, please no Lady Stoneheart, please please please please please. 

She’s not a new character or storyline.  She’s one of the earliest characters of all, and justice has not been served.  Yet.  It ain’t over till the tall lady swings.

Also, Catelyn is no more a “zombie Stark” than Benjen or Jon.  Michelle Fairley said that Catelyn was a difficult character to play after her death for the very reason that she is not a zombie.

The distressing zombie epidemic in trash fiction and visual media over the last decade have conditioned a younger audience to see the world through zombie-colored glasses.  But Martin wrote this character long before said pestilence had taken hold.  

If they’re one thing that Martin has taught us, it's that the old tropes do not hold.  Expect the unexpected.

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2 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

She’s not a new character or storyline.  She’s one of the earliest characters of all, and justice has not been served.  Yet.  It ain’t over till the tall lady swings.

Also, Catelyn is no more a “zombie Stark” than Benjen or Jon.  Michelle Fairley said that Catelyn was a difficult character to play after her death for the very reason that she is not a zombie.

The distressing zombie epidemic in trash fiction and visual media over the last decade have conditioned a younger audience to see the world through zombie-colored glasses.  But Martin wrote this character long before said pestilence had taken hold.  

If they’re one thing that Martin has taught us, it's that the old tropes do not hold.  Expect the unexpected.

"Zombie" anything is an abbreviation for "came back from the dead" anything. It's just a simpler, shorter name for it. We say FrankenGregor too, and don't mean that Ser Gregor Clegane/Robert Strong/The Mountain has actually anything to do with Frankenstein. Nobody thinks UnCat/LHS/RevivedCatelyn is a zombie in the Walking Dead sense of the word. 

And yes I can see how and why they would bring her back, I just don't want it to happen, because I never liked that storyline and I thought it was completely stupid and redundant in the books too. And I had high hopes for D&D to exclude it, but of course if they do include it, I will have my fingers crossed that it'll serve a better purpose than taking revenge on Walder Frey. 

 

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13 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

And yes I can see how and why they would bring her back, I just don't want it to happen, because I never liked that storyline and I thought it was completely stupid and redundant in the books too. And I had high hopes for D&D to exclude it, but of course if they do include it, I will have my fingers crossed that it'll serve a better purpose than taking revenge on Walder Frey. 

I found the epilogue to Storm to be both powerful and moving. Didn’t you?

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14 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I found the epilogue to Storm to be both powerful and moving. Didn’t you?

I don't really remember the epilogue of Storm, so I assume I didn't, because it's usually exactly the things I found powerful and moving that I remember from the books. Was that UnCat hanging pod and Brienne? No, Brienne is in AFFC. Was that Thoros brining back UnCat? No, I'm sorry, I don't think I found it powerful or moving. 

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1 hour ago, RhaeBee said:

No. No. No. No. No. Please no. We are finally slowly getting rid of redudant characters, let's not bring more back, let's not open more storylines, we have enough existing ones.

Except for a certain gravedigger. :wub: Pretty please!! :rolleyes:

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Now that the Jon revival thing has happened, it makes more sense that the show would be ok with bringing more zombie/back from the dead characters back. 

I think one of the big reasons why LSH wasn't introduced was because the idea of "reviving" and "coming back from the dead" needed to be something extremely rare in this world, in order for Jon's For The Watch arc to really have a huge impact on fans. 

If all these characters were coming back from the dead, then the impact of Jon's death would have been pretty minimal. 

Now that Jon is back though? I think there's a better chance of us seeing more revived characters around the place. I still don't expect The Hound (I think he's 100% not coming back), or LSH, but I think there's higher chances of us getting LSH now than there were before. 

 

2 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

No. No. No. No. No. Please no. We are finally slowly getting rid of redudant characters, let's not bring more back. 

We don't know if she's redundant though, do we. We don't know what her roll is in the end-game of the books, so we can't just label her as redundant. I tend to agree with you in thinking that she isn't vitally important, but I don't think we know that with any degree of certainty. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Now that the Jon revival thing has happened, it makes more sense that the show would be ok with bringing more zombie/back from the dead characters back. 

I think one of the big reasons why LSH wasn't introduced was because the idea of "reviving" and "coming back from the dead" needed to be something extremely rare in this world, in order for Jon's For The Watch arc to really have a huge impact on fans. 

If all these characters were coming back from the dead, then the impact of Jon's death would have been pretty minimal. 

Now that Jon is back though? I think there's a better chance of us seeing more revived characters around the place. I still don't expect The Hound (I think he's 100% not coming back), or LSH, but I think there's higher chances of us getting LSH now than there were before. 

 

We don't know if she's redundant though, do we. We don't know what her roll is in the end-game of the books, so we can't just label her as redundant. I tend to agree with you in thinking that she isn't vitally important, but I don't think we know that with any degree of certainty. 

 

 

That's an interesting point of view. Okay, Jon was the first major character to come back, so it would be a big deal. But if they start bringing major characters back wouldn't that diminish the hype of Jon's revival anyways? I really don't know. 

I just know I don't want Stoneheart back. I don't particularly expect the Hound back, but I wouldn't mind that. It would open the door to the (in)famous Cleganebowl and SanSan. LHS wouldn't open the door to anything that couldn't happen without her. A second red wedding (which is a terrible idea, in my opinion, regardless of whether GRRM or D&D came up with it) can perfectly  happen without LHS with Brienne and the Blackfish and Edmure and all the living Starks. 

And yes, you are right, Stoneheart might have a role that goes beyond taking revenge on the Freys in the books, but I personally still think that the whole UnCat concept is quite far-fetched and over the top to begin with. But that's just me. 

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I have a lot of confidence this is happening this season. The pieces seem to be falling together. Walder Frey bringing Edmure back into the mix. Jaime going to Riverrun. A lot of Red Wedding references lately. I think she is already resurrected traveling with the BWB and will make her appearance by the end of the season. 

We may see her resurrection through Bran's visions as an explanation afterwards but I think Jaime will be the one to encounter her first.

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I think they waited to rez Jon first, otherwise, it wouldn't have been as big as it was, and Jon is bigger deal than LS. If LS had been first, where she was supposed to be, no one would have expected Jon to stay dead. Makes complete sense to hold her reveal.

But now that we're headed back to the RIverlands, we're perfectly set up for LS.

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41 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

That's an interesting point of view. Okay, Jon was the first major character to come back, so it would be a big deal. But if they start bringing major characters back wouldn't that diminish the hype of Jon's revival anyways? I really don't know. 

I just know I don't want Stoneheart back. I don't particularly expect the Hound back, but I wouldn't mind that. It would open the door to the (in)famous Cleganebowl and SanSan. LHS wouldn't open the door to anything that couldn't happen without her. A second red wedding (which is a terrible idea, in my opinion, regardless of whether GRRM or D&D came up with it) can perfectly  happen without LHS with Brienne and the Blackfish and Edmure and all the living Starks. 

And yes, you are right, Stoneheart might have a role that goes beyond taking revenge on the Freys in the books, but I personally still think that the whole UnCat concept is quite far-fetched and over the top to begin with. But that's just me. 

Not if Jon was the first major character to come back from the dead, right? 

Think about it this way - if LSH, and maybe the Hound, were added to Beric Dondarion in the whole "coming back from the dead" list, then as soon as Jon died, fans would just roll their eyes and that moment would have no dramatic effect - you'd know that he was coming back. 

At least this way, with Jon being the first major notable character coming back, there was dramatic effect for fans of the show; we spent all year wondering how Jon could come back, if he could come back, Karrington-watch was going on on set, we were looking at all interviews for clues etc. 

I don't think that happens if the idea of "Reviving" was already a strong theme on this show. 

At least now, with the big piece that is Jon's revival, out of the way, I feel like there's better chance of some other characters just casually being reintroduced from the dead. 

I agree with you - I don't think LSH is coming back, but I do think it would be absolutely incredible if they did bring her back. I'm 100% convinced The Hound isn't coming back.

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3 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

And yes I can see how and why they would bring her back, I just don't want it to happen, because I never liked that storyline and I thought it was completely stupid and redundant in the books too. And I had high hopes for D&D to exclude it, but of course if they do include it, I will have my fingers crossed that it'll serve a better purpose than taking revenge on Walder Frey. 

 

That's Stonehearts purpose not the writers or storylines purpose.

Spoiler

We have no idea how that whole deal with Jaime, Brienne and LSH will turn out. I'd wager she will be pretty crucial in wherever Jaime and Brienne's stories are heading.

 

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16 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Not if Jon was the first major character to come back from the dead, right? 

Think about it this way - if LSH, and maybe the Hound, were added to Beric Dondarion in the whole "coming back from the dead" list, then as soon as Jon died, fans would just roll their eyes and that moment would have no dramatic effect - you'd know that he was coming back. 

At least this way, with Jon being the first major notable character coming back, there was dramatic effect for fans of the show; we spent all year wondering how Jon could come back, if he could come back, Karrington-watch was going on on set, we were looking at all interviews for clues etc. 

I don't think that happens if the idea of "Reviving" was already a strong theme on this show. 

At least now, with the big piece that is Jon's revival, out of the way, I feel like there's better chance of some other characters just casually being reintroduced from the dead. 

I agree with you - I don't think LSH is coming back, but I do think it would be absolutely incredible if they did bring her back. I'm 100% convinced The Hound isn't coming back.

Yeah, I get it... I just don't think they should make the revival a band wagon and throw all the characters on it. 

7 minutes ago, Rupert Honeybun said:

That's Stonehearts purpose not the writers or storylines purpose.

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We have no idea how that whole deal with Jaime, Brienne and LSH will turn out. I'd wager she will be pretty crucial in wherever Jaime and Brienne's stories are heading.

 

Well, so far I don't see the purpose of the storyline being anything more, but I do hope you are right and it's not just a revenge tool. 

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1 minute ago, RhaeBee said:

Yeah, I get it... I just don't think they should make the revival a band wagon and throw all the characters on it. 

Well, so far I don't see the purpose of the storyline being anything more, but I do hope you are right and it's not just a revenge tool. 

I think in the books and probably in the show the pickle she has landed Brienne in will have an impact on them both and possibly Pod and that other guy.  However, I see her as easily replaceable with any other BWB senior member or even, although this is not my preferred option, someone like Sansa or even Arya taking on her avenging role.  It is of course possible that George has other "missions" in mind for LSH aside this Brienne/Jaime predicament.

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