TennisMenace Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 No way can Khaleesi be the antagonist. I think you have misinterpreted her words. I predict and hope Khaleesi is the WOMAN who will rule Westeros (with Tyrion advising) when the dust clears. (I've not read the books.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Golden Fleece Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 26 minutes ago, dariopatke said: Jon feels guilty about it and as far as we know he might have forgiven him if he begged. Bran had no idea what he is doing. Tyrion was fighting for his life among those things (however he is a spiteful little creature and far from saint). They threatened to rape and kill her only after she insulted them, she obviously had an ally there and she managed to piss him off. Yeah an ally that only wanted to imprison her forever, not rape her. Some ally. A lot of heroes kill on this show, why is it only Daenerys is held up to extra scrutiny when she does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, Tianzi said: Dany is not the first and not the last one to get excited about war. I don't think it makes her an antagonist, at least not intentionally. Her deeds look like they are supposed to be 'empowering'. (and I'm not going to cry over the burned Dothraki rapists wannabe) Well, she's an antagonist as much as Aegon the Conqueror was. She realized peace doesn't work so she'll take Westeros (and probably much of Essos as well) by force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Imp slap Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Jon is the champion of the free-folk, the wildlings who don't bend the knee and elect their ruler. He's quick to set aside self-interest in the pursuit of what's best for the many... now that he died doing what's right and set out to make the Starks great again, it's hard to see where he's heading. I think Martin won't do anything so black and white that we can see Dany as the enemy. It will be more subtitl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Dany's Golden Fleece said: Yeah an ally that only wanted to imprison her forever, not rape her. Some ally. A lot of heroes kill on this show, why is it only Daenerys is held up to extra scrutiny when she does it? Because she's a Targaryen and daughter of Aerys. That automatically qualifies for monster, mad, villain or antagonist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chonte Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 26 minutes ago, therealbando said: We aren`t given a single sign that Jon feels guilty about doing it. Truth be told it may be because the show is so poorly written and the creators don`t really care about this stuff. Bran had no idea what he was doing? It`s okay then. Because usually in life you can get away with being impatient and doing something that you have no idea about. It would be like if I went into the Oval Office, pressed the Red Button starting a nuclear war and then saying that I had no idea what the Red Button does. Bran should have figured in all his wisdom that there`s a good reason why the 3ER only let`s him see visions when he`s there to assist him. We know he feels bad. He actually says it to sansa. Its why he doesnt want to fight. He's never wanted to be the executioner. He does it out of duty. Jon would be perfectly happy living the westeros equivilant of happy suburban life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I don't know if she's the main antagonist of the story, but yes, I think she'll be an antagonist in the end, to some degree. There are some things in both the show and the books leading me to that, but this season is really starting to convince me of it. The producers have always tripped all over themselves to build Dany up and portray any questionable actions she makes in a positive light, but this year, they've taken it to an absurd level. We get a scene proclaiming the great, wonderful and powerful Queen Daenerys every week. Either they're completely in love with the character, or they're setting her up for a major fall. I'm going to guess its the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blckp Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 i think when she arrives westeros, probably most of westeros will be occupied by WW( anyway most of westores people died war of 5 kings) and hunger and cold, she will probably end up as ultimate saver, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 7 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said: Because she's a Targaryen and daughter of Aerys. That automatically qualifies for monster, mad, villain or antagonist. Rhaegar was also a Targaryen and one of Aerys' children. And he wasn't a monster. Far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Golden Fleece Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Chonte said: We know he feels bad. He actually says it to sansa. Its why he doesnt want to fight. He's never wanted to be the executioner. He does it out of duty. Jon would be perfectly happy living the westeros equivilant of happy suburban life. Which is why he joined the Night's Watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 minute ago, bb1180 said: I don't know if she's the main antagonist of the story, but yes, I think she'll be an antagonist in the end, to some degree. There are some things in both the show and the books leading me to that, but this season is really starting to convince me of it. The producers have always tripped all over themselves to build Dany up and portray any questionable actions she makes in a positive light, but this year, they've taken it to an absurd level. We get a scene proclaiming the great, wonderful and powerful Queen Daenerys every week. Either they're completely in love with the character, or they're setting her up for a major fall. I'm going to guess its the latter. Am I the only one who felt worse about her treatment of Hizdahr, some other possibly innocent dudes and (unintentionally, but still) creating a mess in several cities, than about her burning some pillagers and rapists? I mean, come on, arson is bad PR, but they were her enemies and fire was just a convenient weapon at that moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dariopatke Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 16 minutes ago, Dany's Golden Fleece said: Yeah an ally that only wanted to imprison her forever, not rape her. Some ally. A lot of heroes kill on this show, why is it only Daenerys is held up to extra scrutiny when she does it? Was her in in chains? This is their tradition. When Ned Stark respects tradition it is good, but when Dotrakhi do it is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, adiman83 said: Rhaegar was also a Targaryen and one of Aerys' children. And he wasn't a monster. Far from it. I was being sarcastic. It's just an excuse to hate her...she's not perfect but villain, mad or antagonist nah. Dany and Jon are the main protagonist of this series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, Tianzi said: Am I the only one who felt worse about her treatment of Hizdahr, some other possibly innocent dudes and (unintentionally, but still) creating a mess in several cities, than about her burning some pillagers and rapists? I mean, come on, arson is bad PR, but they were her enemies and fire was just a convenient weapon at that moment. No, I think its all fair game. I don't care about the Khals, either, but that's kind of the point. No one does, they were assholes, but the truth is, the circumstances under which she killed them are questionable at best. She pre-planned their murders before she ever heard what they had to say, then she provoked them into giving her the excuse to carry out that plan. As viewers, its easy to sympathize with her in that moment, but upon closer inspection, should we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Golden Fleece Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 minute ago, dariopatke said: Was her in in chains? This is their tradition. When Ned Stark respects tradition it is good, but when Dotrakhi do it is bad. Ned chose to respect tradition. Daenerys was not given the choice to respect the tradition, hell she was not given the choice to be part of the Dothraki full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, adiman83 said: Rhaegar was also a Targaryen and one of Aerys' children. And he wasn't a monster. Far from it. See that's what we don't know. All we have is second hand information and one of the great things about the books is that you get different POV's slowly seep in about historical events. When you first read the books you think that all the modern Starks are noble. The more we find out about Brandon the more we realise that isn't the case. So we don't know much about Rhaeger really. Just comments that people have made, most of whom didn't know him that well. Connington will give us the biggest insight but as Connington was almost certainly in love with him that will be another biased insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 21 minutes ago, TennisMenace said: No way can Khaleesi be the antagonist. I think you have misinterpreted her words. I predict and hope Khaleesi is the WOMAN who will rule Westeros (with Tyrion advising) when the dust clears. (I've not read the books.) Not sure she'll ever rule and Daario kind hit the nail on the head with his statement. She's a conqueror but not a ruler. Not that she's bad at it but she was not made to sit on the iron chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, bb1180 said: No, I think its all fair game. I don't care about the Khals, either, but that's kind of the point. No one does, they were assholes, but the truth is, the circumstances under which she killed them are questionable at best. She pre-planned their murders before she ever heard what they had to say, then she provoked them into giving her the excuse to carry out that plan. As viewers, its easy to sympathize with her in that moment, but upon closer inspection, should we? She pre-planned their murders in case they'd say something similar they actually said. Had they agreed to cooperate with her, they wouldn't be murdered. Also, the Dothraki are a war tribe, they're murdering on a daily basis (and not necessarily in a 'honourable' manner) and they are merciless to their enemies. Should she be any different to them when they were her enemies? Or maybe she should wave some blade to defend herself/her freedom to come off as 'honourable'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, dariopatke said: Was her in in chains? This is their tradition. When Ned Stark respects tradition it is good, but when Dotrakhi do it is bad. When they marched her to Khal Moro, her hands were bound. Because Ned Stark's traditions are not rooted in hurting other people. How can you not see the difference? Slaving as a tradition = bad. Worshipping the Old Gods = good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dariopatke Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, Dany's Golden Fleece said: Ned chose to respect tradition. Daenerys was not given the choice to respect the tradition, hell she was not given the choice to be part of the Dothraki full stop. Please explain it to me how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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