DCEU: The Wings of Liberty Have Lost Some Feathers

[red snow]

52 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I haven't yet seen Lego Batman- should get on that- but did someone seriously have a go at the director for using an old-school corny Robin and not the modern versions?


Also: I really really really hope, even though it is 99% never gonna happen, that the Nightwing movie features a cameo from The Midnighter to spin off into his own series based on the Steve Orlando run.

It's crazy they'd think that - also if they'd seen the movie they'd know the director (or at least the writer) knew the bat characters and all their versions intimately. It's like thing Mad Max Fury road would have been like Happy feet.

WB should probably consider "authority" and wildstorm in general as a movie franchise. But Orlando's Midnighter could do for gay superheroes what the recent wonder woman did for female superheroes.

[drawkcabi]

So Justice League...it seemed WB desperately tried to polish a turd. And it was a valiant effort, with some nice things there, Superman and Flash, Batman and Aquaman, but in the end, it was still just a polished turd.

When Elfman put in his Batman theme I was bouncing up and down in my seat and I wanted to cheer. Then he played a little bit of the John Williams Superman theme and tears came to my eyes! But I wanted more!

I wanted Elfman to do an orchestral arrangement of the 70's Wonder Woman theme.

When Superman was alive and himself again and he joined the other heroes I wanted to hear just a little bit of this when they fought Steppenwolf:

Just a little bit of that, really the part the starts at 0:19, an updated orchestral version by Elfman would have been so great!

I guess he didn't use his "Flash" theme from the 90's because it was too close to Batman's and never became iconic, so he did something new. However, I had a thought. Yeah it's a totally different Flash, but it's such a shame it's not being used anymore, wouldn't it be cool if WB/DC bought the right to Queen's Flash Gordon theme and gave it to their Flash?

dum-dum-dum-dum-FLASH!(you see a red streak go by)-AH!-AH!

 

So, this is the best DC movie score since Superman Returns. I'm including the Nolan Batman movies there. I know a lot of people like Hans Zimmer but I'm not a fan, the only movie he's done I've ever found memorable for the score is Rainman.

[Фейсал]

Batman got completely and utterly character assassinated in JL. Ridiculous.

[The BlackBear]

6 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

I'm including the Nolan Batman movies there. I know a lot of people like Hans Zimmer but I'm not a fan, the only movie he's done I've ever found memorable for the score is Rainman.

Not even Gladiator?

Edit: Looking it up for my own interest, he also apparently he did the Lion King, and won an Oscar for it.

[drawkcabi]

44 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

Not even Gladiator?

Edit: Looking it up for my own interest, he also apparently he did the Lion King, and won an Oscar for it.

Gladiator bored me and I don't remember the score.

If he did the score for Lion King I'll put one more in Zimmer's plus column bringing it up to 2.

[Eggegg]

I think Zimmers score on Man of Steel is incredible and elevated that movie up 3 notches whenever it is on.

His work on Inception has changed the music landscape entirely, that foghorn is used everywhere now, especially in trailers. True he has teams working for him and he tends to collaborate a lot but he’s one of the only people I’d see a movie just for the score for

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, Eggegg said:

His Zack Hemsey's work on Inception has changed the music landscape entirely, that foghorn is used everywhere now, especially in trailers.

True.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

14 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

Gladiator bored me and I don't remember the score.

If he did the score for Lion King I'll put one more in Zimmer's plus column bringing it up to 2.

You and I are generally in sink on taste but I disagree with you on this.  I love Hans Zimmer’s scores.

[drawkcabi]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

You and I are generally in sink on taste but I disagree with you on this.  I love Hans Zimmer’s scores.

Rainman is a movie that I loved the score of and could always hear it in my head if I thought about it. It's really a great score, I liked it long before I learned Zimmer was the composer.

The rest of his scores, excluding Lion King, just seem like generic background music to me. Dramatic background music, yeah, but it all sounds the same to me. 

[The Anti-Targ]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

You and I are generally in sink on taste but I disagree with you on this.  I love Hans Zimmer’s scores.

You shouldn't be so harsh on your tastes.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

You shouldn't be so harsh on your tastes.

Homophones.

[The Anti-Targ]

11 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Homophones.

Gay phones? didn't know there was such a thing.

[The Anti-Targ]

On a more serious note. The bloated budgets for DCEU movies are really going to be the death of this current run of DC movies. Justice League, which I think is an entertaining movie with some issues, is being predicted to wind up with $650 million global box office, and people are still predicting (with streaming and digital/disc sales) that Justice League will lose $50-$100M. Studios should not be losing money from movies that make $600M in theatres. There has to be something seriously wrong if a studio can't bring total expenses for a movie in under $250M, to make break even somewhere between $500 and $600M.

If they are going to triple down on this version of the DCEU then budgetary discipline needs to be part of a mid-cycle review, so that a $650M box office does not put the whole thing at financial risk.

[boojam]

On 11/26/2017 at 3:34 AM, The BlackBear said:

Not even Gladiator?

Edit: Looking it up for my own interest, he also apparently he did the Lion King, and won an Oscar for it.

Yeah I like his score for Gladiator in particular the battle that was quite innovative. Man Zimmer has done a ton of stuff, most of which I think is ok, but seems way over used with much of his work sounding , in the last 10 years, quite recycled. 

Tho this year I did like the score for Dunkirk , not a score for the popcorn audience! I am giving the nod to Nolan for demanding that.

For  Blade Runner 2049 , I wonder how much was by Wallfisch ? with Zimmer just 'shading'. I was ok with about 1/2 of that score. The score for that movie is just flat hurt by Vangelis's out-of-park score for Blade Runner. I thought they could have just recycled one half to one third of that score by Vangelis. The did use Vangelis's Tears in the Rain exactly but with a different performance by someone. There was enough borrowed from the Vangelis , even if rejiggered , such that I wonder if they paid Vangelis?

Vangelis had said in an interview , when the production was announced, that he would not do the score, which is reasonable , but did they even ask him? I wish they had asked someone else besides Jóhann Jóhannsson , tiny pieces I have heard by him for the movie did not sound good, or  Zimmer and  Wallfisch , surely there must have been somebody else? Wish Basil Poledouris had not died like to see what he would have done.

[boojam]

On 11/23/2017 at 0:40 PM, red snow said:

If Justice League is merely "ok" it's unfair that Suicide squad and BvS burned people enough to be skeptical about Justice League. But I do think it's those films being shit/disappointing that has led to people wising up to the DC films and if loads of reviewers say it's shit then they are probably correct.

Still, I personally think it's good that WB are having the message hammered home. Wonder Woman is the only film that has been widely liked and made money and it's probably because it doesn't have the joyless attitude that the other films have had.

 

Just saw Justice League. I have a question in my mind. I have heard that WB, I guess it's some nameless somebody at WB, could be Synder?, has taken the rough cuts of BvS , Suicide Squad and Justice League and brutishly edited them. It sure looked that way especially for Suicide Squad and yesterday when I saw Justice League. They are jumble. There also is a BLIVIT problem, like they had 1000 pages of screenplay that they pounded into a 5 pound visual narrative bag. After the excellent Wonder Woman ,not long ago, this is a real disappointment .

[Calibandar]

Saw it this weekend. On the whole, not very good. I'd rate it way below Man of Steel and also below Batman vs Superman.

Still not entirely without merit.

Spoilers:

Pros:

• There were a few funny lines, unlike in Thor Ragnarok
• Though limited, there were some good setpieces, notably Steppenwolf's opening confrontation with the Amazons and Superman's brief face off with the Justice League. I liked how they showed his strength related to the rest of the JL.
• I like Ben Affleck Batman and Momoa works as Aquaman

Cons: 

• The final fight with Steppenwolf undid what they had so far built up with that character.
• It was clear they wanted to bring Superman back but then didn't know what to do with him. He was clearly vastly more powerful than Steppenwolf which means the rest of the Justice League was no longer required. It was overkill for the good guys, which touches on the bigger and very obvious point of why on Earth they didn't go for Darkseid? Why put it off even now? A wasted opportunity. Justice League without Superman had its hands full with Steppenwolf.
• Much of the film's buildup did not feel very interesting to me. You keep waiting on the Superman revelation because you know it has to come, but then they did it in a ridiculous motherboxy way and Supes doesn't have much to do when he does come back.

All in all, maybe 7 out of 10 stars.

[Eggegg]

I haven't even seen the movie yet, but a repeated criticism I see is:

Spoiler

why didn't they bring Superman back and use him as the main villain? Seems really obvious to me that this would be a decent, simple storyline that could actually create a good reason for there to be a Justice League, rather than the Steppenwolf idea which seems so generic and cookie cutter.

 

[red snow]

4 hours ago, Eggegg said:

I haven't even seen the movie yet, but a repeated criticism I see is:

  Hide contents

why didn't they bring Superman back and use him as the main villain? Seems really obvious to me that this would be a decent, simple storyline that could actually create a good reason for there to be a Justice League, rather than the Steppenwolf idea which seems so generic and cookie cutter.

 

The following isn't a spoiler but I guess the speculation refers back to the spoiler?

Given the backlash against Superman in MoS allowing hundreds of collateral deaths and his killing of Zod WB may have been reluctant to have an entire film where superman is essentially the villain? So while I agree it would have made for a better antagonist I can see why they may have wanted to avoid this

4 hours ago, boojam said:

Just saw Justice League. I have a question in my mind. I have heard that WB, I guess it's some nameless somebody at WB, could be Synder?, has taken the rough cuts of BvS , Suicide Squad and Justice League and brutishly edited them. It sure looked that way especially for Suicide Squad and yesterday when I saw Justice League. They are jumble. There also is a BLIVIT problem, like they had 1000 pages of screenplay that they pounded into a 5 pound visual narrative bag. After the excellent Wonder Woman ,not long ago, this is a real disappointment .

Shitty editing is often a major factor in bad films being even worse. Fant4stic is a classic example and I agree someone chopped up Suicide Squad as well. Whether the "original" cuts were better no-one knows but they'd hopefully have a more balanced tone and storytelling. It does seem like Snyder had a cut of the film as he intended it and his departure from the film then allowed them to refilm with Whedon which inevitably means there will have been heavy editing going on just to mash the two together. Apparently CGI tash superman makes it easy to spot which elements were reshoots involving him. I guess it's trickier with the others.

When the petition for Snyder's cut of the film begun, many newsites said it was ridiculous as that cut simply doesn't exist but it does sound as if that's not entirely true. I'd still be surprised if there was a finished product of the original cut as a lot of CGI is only finished really near the end of production but there's maybe enough to make an approximation of it - maybe as an extra on the blue-ray. Even if it's just to highlight why they did reshoots it'd be interesting to see.

[boojam]

On 11/28/2017 at 3:07 PM, red snow said:

The following isn't a spoiler but I guess the speculation refers back to the spoiler?

  Reveal hidden contents

Given the backlash against Superman in MoS allowing hundreds of collateral deaths and his killing of Zod WB may have been reluctant to have an entire film where superman is essentially the villain? So while I agree it would have made for a better antagonist I can see why they may have wanted to avoid this

 

Shitty editing is often a major factor in bad films being even worse. Fant4stic is a classic example and I agree someone chopped up Suicide Squad as well. Whether the "original" cuts were better no-one knows but they'd hopefully have a more balanced tone and storytelling. It does seem like Snyder had a cut of the film as he intended it and his departure from the film then allowed them to refilm with Whedon which inevitably means there will have been heavy editing going on just to mash the two together. Apparently CGI tash superman makes it easy to spot which elements were reshoots involving him. I guess it's trickier with the others.

When the petition for Snyder's cut of the film begun, many newsites said it was ridiculous as that cut simply doesn't exist but it does sound as if that's not entirely true. I'd still be surprised if there was a finished product of the original cut as a lot of CGI is only finished really near the end of production but there's maybe enough to make an approximation of it - maybe as an extra on the blue-ray. Even if it's just to highlight why they did reshoots it'd be interesting to see.

You know I should have said the BLIVIT problem was a 100 hour rough cut pounded into a 2 hour film!

I did not keep up much with Justice League but it seems like that were filming it for a year and a half! I know there were reshoots.

It was funny , I remember when Wonder Woman came out there was a big positive response to the Amazons of Themyscira (some even said they wished the film story was all Amazons!). So a week or two later Robin Wright said yes she would be in Justice League, It had been known that Connie Nielsen was already there. 

So were most of those scenes shot before Wonder Woman was in production? I say that because Themyscira looked different from the WW movie. Tell ya, if someone had not put two frame captures from Justice League of Robin Wright I would of sworn she was not in the film! It seems like Robin was part of the reshoots. Have also seen that apparently she and Connie had a small amount of dialog that was cut.

[The BlackBear]

I've I recall correctly Suicide Squad, had an Ayer cut (with heavy studio input,) and a cut done by the trailer house that did the Queen Trailer. And then someone else sort of did a halfway edit. I feel about SS like I did about fan4stick, I can't hate it, because it doesn't feel like a finished film.

Here's a great video about it'd bad editing on a technical level.