Arya and the Waif !?

[a black swan]

The Kindly Man woke Arya up and played the Lying Game. He spotted her lies, things that happened that only someone at KL would know: How Arya killed the stable boy for example.

 

I think there is more to Jaqen/KM/The Waif. 

Then there is this recent interview to consider:

Full quote from the Hollywood Reporter (May 2016)

Does Jaqen H'ghar share Wlaschiha's admiration? The actor won't say, but he does suggest that the relationship between Jaqen and Arya is perhaps more predestined, or at least more purposeful, than one would initially think.

"From the beginning, he's somehow chosen her to be his apprentice," he says. "He wasn't in that cage for nothing. It wasn't just random. I think he always had a bigger plan for her. He's trying to teach her to the best of his abilities, even if sometimes that comes across as punishing or hurting her."

"I think Jaqen wants what's best for her," he continues, "because he has an agenda with her."

But Arya has an agenda of her own, according to Williams: "Arya this season will learn the most valuable lesson she has learned and will ever have learned. She's going to develop a skill that's going to come in handy and will benefit her for a very, very long time. I guess the people who are training her are going to almost create a bit of a monster. They're going to give away all of their best-kept secrets, and she's going to ultimately use that to her advantage."

[Xarkar]

3 hours ago, Letrax said:

It becomes less incongruous if you forego the assumption that this Faceless Man is Jaqen H'ghar.

I rewatched the entire series before the sixth season started, and I noticed one interesting thing: The name "Jaqen H'ghar" hasn't been used since Arya knocked on the door and asked for him. The person who's wearing Jaqen's face has never referred to their time on the Kingsroad and in Harrenhal, and Arya hasn't really done any reminiscing either.

Keep in mind that Jaqen was never at the House of Black and White in the books. The showrunners decided to change that and bring back Tom Wlaschiha though, because it was a familiar face and probably makes it easier for the casual viewers to relate to this person that Arya trains under (plus that there already were some scattered theories that it was the same person).

I think that this Faceless Man, after hearing from Arya that she was looking for Jaqen H'ghar, decided to adopt his face (which Jaqen had already dropped at the end of the Harrenhal storyline), both to learn more about Arya and her relationship to the original Jaqen (well, original from our point-of-view at least), and to facilitate her training – it should be easier for her to trust in someone who appears familiar to her. Although I believe that Arya, on either a conscious or a subconscious level, realizes that it's not him and therefore doesn't bring up their past experiences.

Remember that scene in the last season finale, when Jaqen seemingly killed himself and then the Waif suddenly became Jaqen? That confusing nightmare-like scene becomes easier to process if you decide that "Jaqen" is just a convenient face that the Faceless Men use while they're dealing with Arya. At least one of them already wore a false face in that scene, but I think both of them did.

So with that assumption foregone, it becomes easier to deal with the inconsistencies in "Jaqen's" rules and behavior, between then and now (it's not a theory that I'm dead certain about; I'm just choosing to believe it for now since it seems to work quite well). Although there are still other problems with the show's version of this storyline, most obviously the Waif's attitude.

In general this makes sense, but I have to wonder if the show really put that much thought into it?  Personally I think it will be a much simpler answer.  

Something along the lines of, yes once you finish your training, you are free to serve and offer people to the red god, but until you do so you need to follow our rules (in order to be good enough).  I am honestly not sure that Arya was really supposed to kill lady Crane.  I have a feeling it was actually a test. 

I also do not think the Jaqen who drank the potion died.  That makes ZERO sense. Why would a trained FM kill himself, so that an apprentice (or whatever Arya was) can live.  I think it is all an act (that involves some kind of magic) and it is all there to help her become a FM.  How could there be two Jaqen faces.  How could Arya pull off multiple faces and see her own?  

 

Episode 10 will finish with a lot of people on boats (unless we start using teleporters again).

[a black swan]

Just now, Xarkar said:

Episode 10 will finish with a lot of people on boats (unless we start using teleporters again).

I think Arya will get someone her list before season's end. Which would mean her hopping on that ship very soon. D&D have no regard for traveling time. So I assume she will back in Westeros by the time we get to ep8 whichis interesting g titled:

Spoiler

No One

 

[Xarkar]

3 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

I think Arya will get someone her list before season's end. Which would mean her hopping on that ship very soon. D&D have no regard for traveling time. So I assume she will back in Westeros by the time we get to ep8 whichis interesting g titled:

  Reveal hidden contents

No One

 

I am not so sure she will have time to get someone on her list.

E7 is likely going to have the Waif hunting her.  We have that clip from the season premier trailer of her running and jumping off buildings.  So lets assume this concludes in the episode.  If the rumoured E8 title is correct, we assume she is still in Bravos, and leaves at the end of 8.

 

With E9 being the North battle, its a reasonable assumption that she will not be in this episode at all (on the ship).

E10 maybe she arrives in Westeros.  The question is how does she now find one of her targets?  If she makes it to Kings Landing, the only target that makes sense in my mind is Cersei.  

It would be rather amazing to see Cersei burn KL, and Arya killing her (or stabbing her in the back just like Jamie did to the mad king)

[a black swan]

Just now, Xarkar said:

I am not so sure she will have time to get someone on her list.

E7 is likely going to have the Waif hunting her.  We have that clip from the season premier trailer of her running and jumping off buildings.  So lets assume this concludes in the episode.  If the rumoured E8 title is correct, we assume she is still in Bravos, and leaves at the end of 8.

 

With E9 being the North battle, its a reasonable assumption that she will not be in this episode at all (on the ship).

E10 maybe she arrives in Westeros.  The question is how does she now find one of her targets?  If she makes it to Kings Landing, the only target that makes sense in my mind is Cersei.  

It would be rather amazing to see Cersei burn KL, and Arya killing her (or stabbing her in the back just like Jamie did to the mad king)

Your question about finding her target has been answered. But it involves spoilers and I can't post them here. 

Spoiler

It's definitely not Cersei.

 

[Xarkar]

28 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Your question about finding her target has been answered. But it involves spoilers and I can't post them here. 

  Reveal hidden contents

It's definitely not Cersei.

 

I couldnt remember the list, and when i googled it apparently i got the wrong list.

 

Her list on the show:

Joffery -Dead

Cersei

Walder Frey

Meryn Trant - Dead

Tywin - Dead

The Red woman

Barric Dondarion 

Thoros of myr

Ilyn Payne - written out of show

The Mountain - dead / undead 

 

Looking at this now it seems like there are really only a few logical targets.

Cersei, Walder Frey, The red woman, and if Cersei has a different fate, it really only leave Mel/Frey andi doubt Mel will be killed by Arya... Even though they are due to meet again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[a black swan]

Just now, Xarkar said:

I couldnt remember the list, and when i googled it apparently i got the wrong list.

 

Her list on the show:

Joffery -Dead

Cersei

Walder Frey

Meryn Trant - Dead

Tywin - Dead

The Red woman

Barric Dondarion 

Thoros of myr

Ilyn Payne - written out of show

The Mountain - dead / undead 

 

Looking at this now it seems like there are really only a few logical targets.

Cersei, Walder Frey, The red woman, and if Cersei has a different fate, it really only leave Mel/Frey andi doubt Mel will be killed by Arya... Even though they are due to meet again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah if I had go guess I pick Walder. Red Wedding 2.0 feels from his intro in the last ep. 

Spoiler

Two separate reports came out last year that they filmed a scene in the Riverlands with a pack of wolves. With Arya possibly there... Walder throwing another wedding,  per the trailer, building up to be a quite eventful end for s6 arya.

 

[Xarkar]

11 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Yeah if I had go guess I pick Walder. Red Wedding 2.0 feels from his intro in the last ep. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Two separate reports came out last year that they filmed a scene in the Riverlands with a pack of wolves. With Arya possibly there... Walder throwing another wedding,  per the trailer, building up to be a quite eventful end for s6 arya.

 

We know for sure there will be a feast hosted by Walder Frey.  It was shown in the original trailer.  He also has lannister soldiers (in armour) at the feast.

Not really sure how this can become Red Weddign 2.0 unless Jamie changes sides and orders his men to kill the Freys.  Which to be honest is totally possible.

 

 

[The Imp slap]

The waif is failing her test. She isn't no one for no one knows no envy. She will be stopped but won't die (they may kill her though because GOT). Jaqu'en has a plan for Arya. 

The plot must be different (a thousand times less intricate) than in the books. 

[Nymeria-of-Royne]

1 hour ago, Ludo Kressh said:

Ithe Waif's attitude towards her; she's pretty much had it in for Arya since Arya walked through the black and white weirwood doors of the House. There's some backstory there that's not being told and it's a little confusing because the Waif should be like all the other FM: without emotion.

I agree and that can't be for no reason.  In the books we know the Waif is somewhat passive aggressive towards arya, but the show writers are very clear about making sure we have no doubts that the Waif is overtly hostile towards Arya. can't be for naught.  I think we're going to see Arya defend herself fiercely and want to kill the Waif to find out that the Waif is not as "wicked" as she thought and perhaps does not "deserve" to die. Once we find out why the waif is so angry at Arya it will make sense, as Arya is learning that "evil" is not as Black and White and therefore the same goes for killing.

[ssls6]

9 minutes ago, The Imp slap said:

The waif is failing her test. She isn't no one for no one knows no envy. She will be stopped but won't die (they may kill her though because GOT). Jaqu'en has a plan for Arya. 

The plot must be different (a thousand times less intricate) than in the books. 

One way or another a face will be added to the wall (the Waif).

I wonder where the FM got their magic from? I hope the book adds more detail.  Is it a form of blood magic? some other magic?  I do think the FM and the Iron Bank are tied together in a way.  FM charge a lot yet live very poorly.

[TickTak7]

5 hours ago, dbunting said:

The whole FM and House of Black and White is just a plot device to show Arya getting training to be an assassin so she can get involved in the wars to come and be believable. Imagine Arya had basically pulled a Rickon and was off screen for a few years then comes back a killing machine, would she seem realistic?

She gets there as a young girl in the books and show, she learns some skills and realizes that this isn't for her. She then kills someone, or refuses to kill someone and leaves the FM training. In the books it is said that she has a choice and can leave(not sure how far into the training), this hasn't been mentioned in the show.

That's the book explanation, not the show explanation. 

But for a few seconds training montage, we haven't seen Arya learn, improve, or accomplish anything. 

In fact, in episode 5 she got her ass kicked by The Waif (again) - is she really training to be an assassin? She hasn't assassinated anybody, and it looks like her time "training" with the Faceless Men is over. 

[Nymeria-of-Royne]

1 minute ago, TickTak7 said:

That's the book explanation, not the show explanation. 

But for a few seconds training montage, we haven't seen Arya learn, improve, or accomplish anything. 

In fact, in episode 5 she got her ass kicked by The Waif (again) - is she really training to be an assassin? She hasn't assassinated anybody, and it looks like her time "training" with the Faceless Men is over. 

the "term" assassin is specific.  Arya has most definitely assassinated quite a few people.  She has certainly honed her skill on how to perform stealth killings and Meryn Trant is a great example of one of them.

[Nymeria-of-Royne]

15 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

That's the book explanation, not the show explanation.

how is that?  the explanation is perfectly plausible for books and show.

[4tomic]

4 hours ago, Nymeria-of-Royne said:

I don't think Arya had an agenda when she showed up at the door of the house of black and white. But she was game to become a faceless man because she was consumed with one purpose, "revenge." She lost her purpose for revenge after she killed Meryn Trant. Then her purpose became, "becoming a faceless man." probably because she was blind and all she could think of was how she could survive in a world of darkness. The whole time there's been this odd rivalry with The Waif. I don't know what the Waif has told us in the show but in the books we know the Waif is from a house of nobility. In the show it has always been apparent the Waif does not particularly like Arya Stark. At present Arya has returned to being herself. Why would Jaquen send Arya to observe this play about her family and kill an actor who "plays" the wicked Cersei, from her list, but IRL is a kind good person? This was not be chance. What Jaquen says to Arya is proof of this. He says something about "does death only take with him the wicked?" Arya gives up all this time with intention to be a faceless man and regains her true purpose from an important decision to go back to her original intentions to kill the people from her list. The Waif at some point talks about being a child of nobility. But the waif is overtly angry and particularly hostile towards Arya. At some point Arya mentions the Walder Frey from her kill list. We see the Waif's face. Could be coincidence but I have always believed the Waif comes from a house that does not favor the Starks and this is what fuels her dislike for Arya. in the last scene the Waif tells jaquen what happened and he says, "pity..bla bla.." I think the Waif believes she's going to kill Arya, but it will be Arya who smashes the Waif and we'll find out more on who the waif is/was and where exactly she came from. I also believe Jaquen knows all this.

Yea. This seems like the best theory out there at the moment.

[TickTak7]

3 minutes ago, Nymeria-of-Royne said:

how is that?  the exploitation is perfectly plausible for books and show.

Because we haven't seen her improve on the show. 

She was training on how to fight blind, and got beaten. 

Then, she was training on how to fight with her sight back, and still got beaten.

 

[Nymeria-of-Royne]

6 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Because we haven't seen her improve on the show. 

She was training on how to fight blind, and got beaten. 

Then, she was training on how to fight with her sight back, and still got beaten.

 

yeah, I think you're looking at the show with too much of a literal eye.  The Writers clearly want show viewers to be doing a whole helluva lotta suspension of disbelief!  If we all were thinking the way you are thinking about this, then there's a huge list of things in the show that just make absolutely NO Sense and nothing works.  one for example is Euron telling the 20 people left on the Iron islands who voted him as the Salt King to go cut down trees and make ships.  Uhm...where do they expect to find tree's on the Iron Islands?  They don't exist!!  How long will it take them to make the ships if they have to procure tree's off the islands and if they DID have tree's how long would it take to make 1000 ships? lets talk travel in Westeros and Essos. FFS Littlefinger and his jet pack, while Gilly's baby never ages, and on and on and on and on

So, with that said, Arya learning how to fight but we don't actually see her beat the Waif seems quite irrelevant.  By the way, Arya has a Valyrian Steel Sword.

[Tyrek Lannister]

1 minute ago, Nymeria-of-Royne said:

So, with that said, Arya learning how to fight but we don;t actually see her beat the Waif is so irrelevant.  By the way, Arya has a Valyrian Steel Sword.

She has?

[Nymeria-of-Royne]

Just now, Chett said:

She has?

S6E6....Arya pulls out Needle.  Needle is a Valyrian Steel Sword.

[Quoth]

Beat me to it. I don't recall Needle being of Valarian steel. Not in the book. Not in the show. Can anyone cite a source if I've a faulty memory?