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Ssangkall

How Much Did GRRM tell D&D?

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Besides the 

Spoiler

Hodor

bomb, did GRRM give things away like 

Spoiler

John resurrection

and all these deaths?  I mean, if not, how much liberty can they take, and he must have given them more than just endgame and 

Spoiler

Hodor

...yea

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6 hours ago, Ssangkall said:

Besides the 

  Hide contents

Hodor

bomb, did GRRM give things away like 

  Hide contents

John resurrection

and all these deaths?  I mean, if not, how much liberty can they take, and he must have given them more than just endgame and 

  Hide contents

Hodor

...yea

They've gone on record saying that GRRM's only given them vague landmarks which makes sense for someone who gardens 

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19 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

HBO is paying for the whole tea. I'm sure GRRM told them the general plot and the ending of all major characters. 

Yes. They met and GRRM basically gave them an entire outline of the major plot points of the story and the endgame, including the ultimate outcome for each character. At that time (and probably even now), GRRM did not know exactly how he planned to get each player into position, so he did not and could not reveal those details. But all the critical plot points were disclosed.

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I think D&D&C, after the Red Wedding, requested and had a sit down with GRRM regarding where things are going. He told them the end and where 5-8 of the big chracters are ending up, who is on the Iron Thone and that it will actually still exist. The show runners took that as advice and tidbits but are doing their own thing.

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1 minute ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I think D&D&C, after the Red Wedding, requested and had a sit down with GRRM regarding where things are going. He told them the end and where 5-8 of the big chracters are ending up, who is on the Iron Thone and that it will actually still exist. The show runners took that as advice and tidbits but are doing their own thing.

I agree. From what I understood, the last time GRRM met with them was a couple years ago regarding the plot. I don't see how he could possibly have told them the final outcome of every character as others have said because I'm sure he doesn't even know it himself for everyone yet. (I'm sure he does for the major characters.)

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19 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

I agree. From what I understood, the last time GRRM met with them was a couple years ago regarding the plot. I don't see how he could possibly have told them the final outcome of every character as others have said because I'm sure he doesn't even know it himself for everyone yet. (I'm sure he does for the major characters.)

Kit said in his interviews that he was in a room with George, D&D and HBO's executives when they told him Jon would come back this season. So they definitely are talking about plots, if it'll happen in the same way (or happen at all) in the next books, we have to wait and see.

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Tentpoles. They know all of the tentpoles, all of the major revelations, where everyone will be in the end and basically how they get there. Some liberties are taken, but none that will change the final outcome of the show. There are things that we see NOW as a major change that may not end up being a major change down the road...

For example, if everything we know of Coldhands in the books is true (that he is really old etc), that doesn't mean that in the books Benjen won't show up having also been saved by the Children in the same way...they may save whoever they can and potentially have several Coldhand-like soldiers on patrol. Then again, for all we know GRRM decided to make Coldhands Benjen AFTER his initial appearance in the books, and now has to retcon the "really old" comment as a lie (maybe the Children don't want Bran to know his real identity) We need to keep in mind that even George is fleshing out the points in between the tentpoles as he goes. 

That being said, I have a sneaking suspicion that when all is said and done, we will see even some dialogue from Winds of Winter pop up in season 6 from prior conversations between George and D&D, and although the book will be much more fleshed than the show as always, we will see the heightened pace of season 6 echoed in the book...it's just that point in the story...things are ramping up and coming to a head everywhere. 

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1 hour ago, Leticia Stark said:

Kit said in his interviews that he was in a room with George, D&D and HBO's executives when they told him Jon would come back this season. So they definitely are talking about plots, if it'll happen in the same way (or happen at all) in the next books, we have to wait and see.

This. Just because the last major plot meeting between George and D&D was a few years ago doesn't mean they aren't in communication. This particular meeting was obviously much more recent. I think George's comments about him focusing on WoW and not being as involved in the show is just his way of

A. assuring people he is hard at work on the book and

B. giving D&D credit where credit is due regarding the creation of the show.

Characters may get dropped/merged, but IMO all that does is (unfortunately) spoil the fact that they aren't going to be important in the grand scheme of things (I'm looking at you Young Griff). 

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2 hours ago, SuperMario said:

I agree. From what I understood, the last time GRRM met with them was a couple years ago regarding the plot. I don't see how he could possibly have told them the final outcome of every character as others have said because I'm sure he doesn't even know it himself for everyone yet. (I'm sure he does for the major characters.)

Yeah, if I remember correctly, the example he gave was that he knows Arianne's fate but not Feathers' (the guy in charge of the ravens?).

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46 minutes ago, Castigear said:

Tentpoles. They know all of the tentpoles, all of the major revelations, where everyone will be in the end and basically how they get there. Some liberties are taken, but none that will change the final outcome of the show. There are things that we see NOW as a major change that may not end up being a major change down the road...

For example, if everything we know of Coldhands in the books is true (that he is really old etc), that doesn't mean that in the books Benjen won't show up having also been saved by the Children in the same way...they may save whoever they can and potentially have several Coldhand-like soldiers on patrol. Then again, for all we know GRRM decided to make Coldhands Benjen AFTER his initial appearance in the books, and now has to retcon the "really old" comment as a lie (maybe the Children don't want Bran to know his real identity) We need to keep in mind that even George is fleshing out the points in between the tentpoles as he goes. 

That being said, I have a sneaking suspicion that when all is said and done, we will see even some dialogue from Winds of Winter pop up in season 6 from prior conversations between George and D&D, and although the book will be much more fleshed than the show as always, we will see the heightened pace of season 6 echoed in the book...it's just that point in the story...things are ramping up and coming to a head everywhere. 

That's what I believe too.

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5 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I think D&D&C, after the Red Wedding, requested and had a sit down with GRRM regarding where things are going. He told them the end and where 5-8 of the big chracters are ending up, who is on the Iron Thone and that it will actually still exist. The show runners took that as advice and tidbits but are doing their own thing.

I still don't think they're as far apart from the books as people would like to believe though.

As for the OP, he has revealed everything important to the end game to them.  The gardener approach GRRM takes is more to subplots and world building rather than the main plot.  The proof in that is the foreshadowing from early books.  He clearly knows what the main milestones to the plot are.

He also gave D&D unpublished chapters, e.g. Mercy.

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3 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I still don't think they're as far apart from the books as people would like to believe though.

As for the OP, he has revealed everything important to the end game to them.  The gardener approach GRRM takes is more to subplots and world building rather than the main plot.  The proof in that is the foreshadowing from early books.  He clearly knows what the main milestones to the plot are.

He also gave D&D unpublished chapters, e.g. Mercy.

He also gave them Alyane/sansa and they decided to send her to Ramsay anyway. We will not know how close or apart they are until both the TV series and books are done.

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Just now, A Ghost of Someone said:

He also gave them Alyane/sansa and they decided to send her to Ramsay anyway. We will not know how close or apart they are until both the TV series and books are done.

It's doubtful the books will ever be done but although the journeys may differ the destinations will be the same.

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2 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

It's doubtful the books will ever be done but although the journeys may differ the destinations will be the same.

I think the books will be done, possibly 8 instead of 7 within approx 8-10 years from now, GRRM will die either shortly before the last one is released or soon after. Prediction.

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13 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

They've gone on record saying that GRRM's only given them vague landmarks which makes sense for someone who gardens 

George knows the endgame of the main characters, such as the major Stark children (Jon, Arya, Bran, Sansa), Dany, and Major Lannisters (Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion): who sits IT, who dies, who lives, who marries. And several of the deaths of secondary characters. As well as most likely gave answers on identities: Hodor = Hold the door, Jon's parentage, Coldhands, Hooded Man... as well as confirmed some who-dunnit questions most likely (who hired the FM to kill Balon, who killed the men in WF).

Now a lot of that identity information was altered or changed. For example it is hard to insist that Coldhands = Benjen based on the show, despite GRRM's "no" to his editor, when the show makes BR a thousand year old guy and never identify him as Brynden Rivers (when that was confirmed), and they don't even include the WF murders or hooded man there.

Meanwhile the how that George has foreshadowed or set-up, were in several cases dropped or changed alltogether, such as with Sansa.

So no, I do not think he gave them details on everything. George is the type of writer who holds the right to tweak and alter arcs for himself in the non-published material. He may have certain ideas and plot arcs in mind, but he doesn't know hismelf whether it actually works for himself, until he has written it. The drop of the 5 year gap and the Mereneese knot are evidence of this. I also don't see why he'd bother forcing himself to write an outline for them on stuff he's not yet certain of when D&D alter, drop and include stuff purely based on their own preference.

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There is always the possibility that GRRM told them what he thought would be the endgame, but might change his mind about certain plot points/character fates.

Also - is there any guarantee that D&D will faithfully follow the directions he gave them and not change anything to their liking?

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21 hours ago, Ssangkall said:

Besides the 

  Hide contents

Hodor

bomb, did GRRM give things away like 

  Hide contents

John resurrection

and all these deaths?  I mean, if not, how much liberty can they take, and he must have given them more than just endgame and 

  Hide contents

Hodor

...yea

I doubt deeply that GRRM has anythinbg to do so call "Hodor bomb" that smell like another invention of D&D only, based on what I saw in the season six, I now blieve GRRM actually told D&D very little about his plan of the future novels

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17 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

There is always the possibility that GRRM told them what he thought would be the endgame, but might change his mind about certain plot points/character fates.

Also - is there any guarantee that D&D will faithfully follow the directions he gave them and not change anything to their liking?

Well they already said that the show won't spoil the books besides a few elements 

I'm thinking  things like Jon's parentage 

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