How Much Did GRRM tell D&D?

[Ser Gareth]

On ‎05‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 9:33 PM, Stannis is the man....nis said:

I do wonder is happy with the shows changes because it keeps his books mostly unspoiled or annoyed because some of these changes are well Sansa getting raped

I have a sneaky suspicion that may yet happen.  Although it won't be Ramsay that does it obviously.

[thehandwipes]

1 hour ago, Ser Gareth said:

I have a sneaky suspicion that may yet happen.  Although it won't be Ramsay that does it obviously.

As happy as we know it would make you show loyalists, its not gonna happen.  Sorry.

[Ser Gareth]

17 minutes ago, thehandwipes said:

As happy as we know it would make you show loyalists, its not gonna happen.  Sorry.

I'm not a show loyalist.

But if GRRM lives up to his questionable reputation then it wouldn't shock me at all if Littlefinger or the Hound forced themselves on her.

[thehandwipes]

9 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

I'm not a show loyalist.

But if GRRM lives up to his questionable reputation then it wouldn't shock me at all if Littlefinger or the Hound forced themselves on her.

Oh, I see, you haven't read the books.  You're Unsullied. 

Tell me, what is it from the books would lead you to believe that in TWOW Sansa will be raped.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

He told them the broad strokes, and they have to find ways to connect the events, which they do not know how to do.

We're seven episodes into the season, and other than Jaime leaving KL and Margaery is released, nothing has happened in KL. Nothing has happened in Meereen either.

 

 

 

[marsyao]

2 hours ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

He told them the broad strokes, and they have to find ways to connect the events, which they do not know how to do.

 

Based on how bad this season become, most likely GRRM told them even less than the broad strokes, D&D are now clueless

[A Ghost of Someone]

It does not matter, D&D&C had access to all 5 books, including the Alayne/Sansa chapter since 2011. They know where Grrm was going with the North and with most of their major 5-8 characters. D&D&C have taken this story in the direction they have out of their own sense of creative desire. It is all on them, good or bad. It is on them.

Dorne, The illyrio connection and Blackfyre have all been dropped for The Chronicles of St Tyrion, Bad Pussy, Ramsay the Great, Poor Cersei (Carol) and last but not least, Everybody Hates The Starks.

[Neds Secret]

3 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I'm not a show loyalist.

But if GRRM lives up to his questionable reputation then it wouldn't shock me at all if Littlefinger or the Hound forced themselves on her.

What reputation are you referring to?

[WinterPool Stark]

13 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

I'm not a show loyalist.

But if GRRM lives up to his questionable reputation then it wouldn't shock me at all if Littlefinger or the Hound forced themselves on her.

I think you're off the mark with the who. My guess is if it happens, it'll be Harry the Heir who does it and Tinyfinger will somehow use that situation to his advantage

[Ser Gareth]

11 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

What reputation are you referring to?

Doing things differently to the expected.

I personally don't agree with the reputation.  I think ASOIAF has become pretty formulaic and is rapidly becoming a standard fantasy story with more adult themes than most fantasy novels.

But GRRM has garnered this reputation of pulling out shocks and if that reputation is deserved it would be just like him to break Sansa again just as she's recovering and starting to trust again.  Likewise him breaking a redemption arc like the Hounds so that the Hound comes back more hateful, bitter and twisted than ever.  He meets up with Sansa who for some reason places her trust in him and then.......

[Ser Gareth]

11 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

It does not matter, D&D&C had access to all 5 books, including the Alayne/Sansa chapter since 2011. They know where Grrm was going with the North and with most of their major 5-8 characters. D&D&C have taken this story in the direction they have out of their own sense of creative desire. It is all on them, good or bad. It is on them.

Dorne, The illyrio connection and Blackfyre have all been dropped for The Chronicles of St Tyrion, Bad Pussy, Ramsay the Great, Poor Cersei (Carol) and last but not least, Everybody Hates The Starks.

And financial prudence.  The story has gone nuts in ADWD.  It's unlike the first four books in narrative and it introduced a load new subplots and characters.

D&D have an obligation to those paying for the show to ensure that it is kept within time and budget.  The first thing they'd have done is look at the novels, asked GRRM where some of these plots were going and how they impact the end game.  If the answer from GRRM was he didn't know, or the impact would be indirect or subtle or meandering to get there etc. then the D&D would be doing a bad job if they kept that stuff IN the show.

They don't have infinite time or resources unfortunately.  The show's "kids" are already ridiculous in terms of age compared to the books.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

6 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

And financial prudence.  The story has gone nuts in ADWD.  It's unlike the first four books in narrative and it introduced a load new subplots and characters.

D&D have an obligation to those paying for the show to ensure that it is kept within time and budget.  The first thing they'd have done is look at the novels, asked GRRM where some of these plots were going and how they impact the end game.  If the answer from GRRM was he didn't know, or the impact would be indirect or subtle or meandering to get there etc. then the D&D would be doing a bad job if they kept that stuff IN the show.

They don't have infinite time or resources unfortunately.  The show's "kids" are already ridiculous in terms of age compared to the books.

The show has to end at some point, HBO might not actually want that to happen, but for the sake of the story it cannot keep going on. You not only have the strain on the production staff to get this thing out every year but there is mental fatigue for the audience. At some point the audience has to feel like the show is actually pushing forwards to an ending.

Otherwise you essentially have the 'Lost' effect, where a story is stretched out and you are in season 5 or 6 with very little end in sight and every new twist just becomes a frustration. The books have the problem as it is, but a TV audience simply won't have the patience to stick around with a show thats going nowhere fast. I cannot imagine the viewing figures had we got to say season 7 and Dany was still pottering around Meereen and Jon was still doing chores up at the wall, because the show had spent a season introducing Aegon and let Brienne do her travelogue.

[A Ghost of Someone]

16 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

And financial prudence.  The story has gone nuts in ADWD.  It's unlike the first four books in narrative and it introduced a load new subplots and characters.

D&D have an obligation to those paying for the show to ensure that it is kept within time and budget.  The first thing they'd have done is look at the novels, asked GRRM where some of these plots were going and how they impact the end game.  If the answer from GRRM was he didn't know, or the impact would be indirect or subtle or meandering to get there etc. then the D&D would be doing a bad job if they kept that stuff IN the show.

They don't have infinite time or resources unfortunately.  The show's "kids" are already ridiculous in terms of age compared to the books.

That does not wash when you erase most of what was written and add your own spin. They did what they wanted to, plain and simple. They could have cut certain things and made sensible continuity with what they did but they made it into fanfic at this point and it shows.

[Ser Gareth]

10 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

The show has to end at some point, HBO might not actually want that to happen, but for the sake of the story it cannot keep going on. You not only have the strain on the production staff to get this thing out every year but there is mental fatigue for the audience. At some point the audience has to feel like the show is actually pushing forwards to an ending.

Otherwise you essentially have the 'Lost' effect, where a story is stretched out and you are in season 5 or 6 with very little end in sight and every new twist just becomes a frustration. The books have the problem as it is, but a TV audience simply won't have the patience to stick around with a show thats going nowhere fast. I cannot imagine the viewing figures had we got to say season 7 and Dany was still pottering around Meereen and Jon was still doing chores up at the wall, because the show had spent a season introducing Aegon and let Brienne do her travelogue.

I already know a fair few show only fans who were starting to get bored with it because it's gone on too long and certain plots (mainly Arya, Dany and the Whitewalkers taking an eternity to get the Wall) didn't seem to be going anywhere.

This season has perked them up a bit because they can finally see some progress.  But if Dany doesn't make it to Westeros by the end of this season then I can see a couple of them losing interest.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

1 minute ago, Ser Gareth said:

I already know a fair few show only fans who were starting to get bored with it because it's gone on too long and certain plots (mainly Arya, Dany and the Whitewalkers taking an eternity to get the Wall) didn't seem to be going anywhere.

This season has perked them up a bit because they can finally see some progress.  But if Dany doesn't make it to Westeros by the end of this season then I can see a couple of them losing interest.

I've seen many a discussion that the last 2 episodes of GoT were really boring because they were about new characters that these people didn't care about. Theres a large segment of the audience that is going to struggle to care about the Blackfish or even the Hound, and just want to know what happens to Jon and Dany. 

 

[Ser Gareth]

2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I've seen many a discussion that the last 2 episodes of GoT were really boring because they were about new characters that these people didn't care about. Theres a large segment of the audience that is going to struggle to care about the Blackfish or even the Hound, and just want to know what happens to Jon and Dany. 

 

True.  I do find it baffling that the showrunners haven't sussed that the majority of people are only emotionally invested in the characters that have been in it since the start.

I also know the Hound's return caused a few groans and rolled eyes of "Doesn't anyone stay dead?".  Now Arya has been stabbed and almost certainly lives.  It is getting rather ridiculous.  If LSH is revealed as being around then I don't think it's going to go down to well with a portion of the audience!

[lancerman]

12 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

True.  I do find it baffling that the showrunners haven't sussed that the majority of people are only emotionally invested in the characters that have been in it since the start.

I also know the Hound's return caused a few groans and rolled eyes of "Doesn't anyone stay dead?".  Now Arya has been stabbed and almost certainly lives.  It is getting rather ridiculous.  If LSH is revealed as being around then I don't think it's going to go down to well with a portion of the audience!

LSH is different in that she's an entirely different character. Jon was fine because it was the first significant resurrection. We know Arya isn't dying, and the Hound was left ambiguous.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

18 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

True.  I do find it baffling that the showrunners haven't sussed that the majority of people are only emotionally invested in the characters that have been in it since the start.

I also know the Hound's return caused a few groans and rolled eyes of "Doesn't anyone stay dead?".  Now Arya has been stabbed and almost certainly lives.  It is getting rather ridiculous.  If LSH is revealed as being around then I don't think it's going to go down to well with a portion of the audience!

Yes , it needs to be repeated but there is a major difference in the way that your average unsullied watcher views the show and those who are book heavyweights do. I've at least read the books so I found the Hound scenes quite fun, and I enjoyed the Blackfish scenes too, but I know others didn't, and basically wondered what the bloody point of them was.

[Ser Biscuit]

Found some great news about this topic. This was right before season 5 began to be written.

"BENIOFF: Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with him and just talk through where things are going, because we don’t know if we are going to catch up, and where exactly that would be. As you were saying before, if you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we sat just down with him and literally went through every character and said, “So what’s the destination for Daenerys? And Arya?”

INTERVIEWER: Did you feel like he knew? Or was he figuring it out?

WEISS: In some case he had very definite ideas, and in other cases he had left those story lines more open, for the time being."

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2014/03/game-of-thrones-benioff-weiss-interview

::Fist pump, thumps chest, points to God::

This tells me that he told them even less than I thought he did (which wasn't much to begin with). Thank you GRRM, you spared us from these hacks destroying even more of your ideas. Keep the fanfic going, show.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

1 hour ago, Ser Biscuit said:

Found some great news about this topic. This was right before season 5 began to be written.

"BENIOFF: Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with him and just talk through where things are going, because we don’t know if we are going to catch up, and where exactly that would be. As you were saying before, if you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we sat just down with him and literally went through every character and said, “So what’s the destination for Daenerys? And Arya?”

INTERVIEWER: Did you feel like he knew? Or was he figuring it out?

WEISS: In some case he had very definite ideas, and in other cases he had left those story lines more open, for the time being."

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2014/03/game-of-thrones-benioff-weiss-interview

::Fist pump, thumps chest, points to God::

This tells me that he told them even less than I thought he did (which wasn't much to begin with). Thank you GRRM, you spared us from these hacks destroying even more of your ideas. Keep the fanfic going, show.

Thanks GRRM for screwing with the tv series by letting them adapt your work before you'd even understood what you were doing with characters. No wonder those books are never getting made.