Jump to content

Bakker's the Great Ordeal excerpts III: Barthes to Balzac(spoilers)


Kalnestk Oblast

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, JEORDHl said:

That's almost temptation enough right there.

The Whale Mothers though, man...

The whale mothers aren't awesome. Depending on what you objected to about them there are things significantly worse. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

The whale mothers aren't awesome. Depending on what you objected to about them there are things significantly worse. 

Jesus Christ... hahaha

I objected to them on the grounds of being a father of two wonderful girls, and in retrospect object to Bakker's take on women in this world. Yes, I understand that it's an inversion [objective inferiority] and yes again, I also understand that a Mentat would logically reduce an inferior sex to just a womb. It's consistent with both ideology and the narrative world, even as ugly as it is. But I have a hard time emotionally reconciling that with the thought that Dunyain women would allow themselves to be reduced to such a state like a bunch of docile cows-- even though that too would be internally consistent.

It's just repulsive, to me. 

And now you say there's worse... [facepalm]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If that's the issue then I don't think there's anything worse than the whale mothers in the book. There are a lot of very troubling things that happen, but other than that aspect there is little that is as bad towards women as the whale mothers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys,

The interview is up! Many thanks to everyone who submitted questions! :)

You can find it here.

I'm about to drive to my parents' house because they live closer to the airport and won't have internet access until I arrive at my hostel in Banff tomorrow afternoon. So if some of you could please help spread the word by linking this on Reddit and elsewhere, I would appreciate it!

Cheers,

Patrick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for doing that, Pat. 

Was going to suggest posting the interview at the other topic, but he mentions whale mothers and that Golgotterath will be scaled, so...yeah, spoilers it is. Two things are ouch:

Quote

Nothing more than notes and fragments. At the moment I’m rewriting The Unholy Consult, buffing, polishing, strapping muscle on some bare bones.

Notes and fragments? Yikes. And TUC is getting rewritten? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

Hey guys,

The interview is up! Many thanks to everyone who submitted questions! :)

You can find it here.

I'm about to drive to my parents' house because they live closer to the airport and won't have internet access until I arrive at my hostel in Banff tomorrow afternoon. So if some of you could please help spread the word by linking this on Reddit and elsewhere, I would appreciate it!

Cheers,

Patrick

It's out through the core bakkerfans mediums, on reddit, and on some other forums, Pat.

Thanks very much, real cool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Thanks for doing that, Pat. 

Was going to suggest posting the interview at the other topic, but he mentions whale mothers and that Golgotterath will be scaled, so...yeah, spoilers it is. Two things are ouch:

Notes and fragments? Yikes. And TUC is getting rewritten? 

Insofar as rewrites, probably editor suggestions, maybe some tweaks of his own. He has some time. 

I suspect that the notes and fragments of the penultimate duology, for Bakker, are more substantial than that might imply. He just seems like that kind of guy. And again, he's got some extra lead time if they nail the July/August 2017 release for TUC. All depends on him, really. Time to write, drive to do so, etc.

Who knows. Could even be 2019 or '20 if the stars align. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Thanks for doing that, Pat. 

Was going to suggest posting the interview at the other topic, but he mentions whale mothers and that Golgotterath will be scaled, so...yeah, spoilers it is. Two things are ouch:

Notes and fragments? Yikes. And TUC is getting rewritten? 

He rewrites all the time. He mentioned rewriting a few months before WLW came out, that he was constantly trimming fat from it to make it a 'beast' of a book or whatever.

I think he's obviously got the game plan down for the last duology/trilogy, but is probably allowing it to germinate and bloom in its proper time. He seems that kind of guy.

Though I'm sure I'll love TGO, it's still good to get a grounded review, particularly from a no-fan :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Thanks for doing that, Pat. 

Was going to suggest posting the interview at the other topic, but he mentions whale mothers and that Golgotterath will be scaled, so...yeah, spoilers it is. Two things are ouch:

Notes and fragments? Yikes. And TUC is getting rewritten? 

I really think notes and fragments are where he is at with the last duology. He's been pretty consistent in that when I compare it with his blog comments.

In other words, Great Ordeal and Unholy Consult in July 2017 is where it's at for us fans. I am honestly not expecting more books after TUC but would of course be very pleased if it does happen. Who knows, it might. I think TUC will have to conclude the series in most ways.

As for rewrites, nothing concering I would say, he says he is "polishing and buffing up"  which he mentioned he was doing already back in March on the blog.

Anyway, good to hear a publication date for TUC, it's the one most of us were expecting I guess, a year after TGO, as most publishers do with series. I'm expecting about 400 pages of story with 150-200 pages of encyclopedic glossary, though I'll happily take more :)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Calibandar said:

I really think notes and fragments are where he is at with the last duology. He's been pretty consistent in that when I compare it with his blog comments.

In other words, Great Ordeal and Unholy Consult in July 2017 is where it's at for us fans. I am honestly not expecting more books after TUC but would of course be very pleased if it does happen. Who knows, it might. I think TUC will have to conclude the series in most ways.

As for rewrites, nothing concering I would say, he says he is "polishing and buffing up"  which he mentioned he was doing already back in March on the blog.

Anyway, good to hear a publication date for TUC, it's the one most of us were expecting I guess, a year after TGO, as most publishers do with series. I'm expecting about 400 pages of story with 150-200 pages of encyclopedic glossary, though I'll happily take more :)

 

 

See, here is where I wonder...

If TUC fulfills the major "plot" threads if not the thematic threads, then obviously we won't have the No-God walking across the horizon by the end of TUC. That is a conflict that will be 'resolved'. One has to wonder if the No-God threat is just a bait and switch (example: crackpot(?): the carapace was a method of capturing the God itself, thus the no-flow of souls) and if Golgotterah will still be standing by the end of the supposed 400 pages of story. I'm not expecting happy ever after, but there is pretty clear indications that the story of TAE will definitely end and not serve as a cliff-hanger for the third series.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Triskan said:

Confirmation from the author that we are participants in the Slog of Slogs!!

I want to embrace Rhom in a totally platonic way. 

No bromance on the slog!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11-6-2016 at 5:23 PM, kuenjato said:

See, here is where I wonder...

If TUC fulfills the major "plot" threads if not the thematic threads, then obviously we won't have the No-God walking across the horizon by the end of TUC. That is a conflict that will be 'resolved'. One has to wonder if the No-God threat is just a bait and switch (example: crackpot(?): the carapace was a method of capturing the God itself, thus the no-flow of souls) and if Golgotterah will still be standing by the end of the supposed 400 pages of story. I'm not expecting happy ever after, but there is pretty clear indications that the story of TAE will definitely end and not serve as a cliff-hanger for the third series.

Not having read TGO it's honestly very hard to say where the next 900-1,000 pages of narrative will leave us off.

Clearly TGO already makes major headway into the story and TUC will provide the conclusions of that storyline, but I dare not speculate how far that takes us. I mean, it could conclude the story, for all I know. The only reason we think it might not is because another duology has been rumoured for years. It seems like TUC will definitely end a major part of the Second Apocalypse storyline but clearly there is room for more afterwards, because that final series is still in play, even if it is just notes and fragments. From what Scott's been saying, I expect TUC will be fairly conclusive, in terms of story progression. I expect the No God storyline to be resolved, yes. I'd be very surprised if it does not appear in Unholy Consult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just started my first re-read of the series, and just came across this passage; Inrau visiting the shrine of Onkis

Quote

The idol was worked in white marble, eyes closed with the sunken look of the dead. At first glance she appeared to be the severed head of a woman, beautiful yet vaguely common, mounted on a poleAnything more than a glance, however, revealed the pole to be a miniature tree, like those cultivated by the ancient  Norsirai. [...]

Her image never failed to stir something within him, and this is why he always returned to her; she was stirring, the dark place where the flurries of his thoughts arose. She came before him.

(Bolding mine)

I still think there is something more to the "Outside" scene, wondering if this may have any significance. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Not having read TGO it's honestly very hard to say where the next 900-1,000 pages of narrative will leave us off.

Clearly TGO already makes major headway into the story and TUC will provide the conclusions of that storyline, but I dare not speculate how far that takes us. I mean, it could conclude the story, for all I know. The only reason we think it might not is because another duology has been rumoured for years. It seems like TUC will definitely end a major part of the Second Apocalypse storyline but clearly there is room for more afterwards, because that final series is still in play, even if it is just notes and fragments. From what Scott's been saying, I expect TUC will be fairly conclusive, in terms of story progression. I expect the No God storyline to be resolved, yes. I'd be very surprised if it does not appear in Unholy Consult.

Why I wonder about the 'finality' of TUC is due to RSB stating, once he had finished the first draft, that it marked the conclusion to what he'd envisioned many years before, and that although there was more material to come, it marked a satisfactory ending to the epic so far. I can't see Golgotterah standing at the end of the novel--or without giving a concrete assessment of the No-God, Outside, etc--so I'm assuming these will be addressed and not left hanging ambiguously. I guess this is a reaction to my recent re-read of TTT, where it definitely concludes yet is obviously setting up for the next series.

'Course, who knows what Bakker has up his sleeve for TUC? Madness, I suppose... :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, R'hllors Red Lobster said:

Just started my first re-read of the series, and just came across this passage; Inrau visiting the shrine of Onkis

(Bolding mine)

I still think there is something more to the "Outside" scene, wondering if this may have any significance. 

Damn!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And you don't think that's a spoiler? I call that a massive spoiler, and thanks for that.

People want to find this out for themselves. Is this really so hard for you to understand? I specifically asked a few posts back, that I wanted people who have read the book to exercise restraint. And you just can't do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It isn't actually a spoiler. It doesn't happen at all. I was trying to poke fun at myself and some of the stupid ideas I had.

I'll edit the other post to make it clearer, but just so you,calibandar, are clear, nothing I post in clear text here is a spoiler for anything that isn't published.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...