"Fair Game: The critical universe around Game of Thrones" - [Finally]

[StepStark]

2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Hes suggesting there is a reason for the good reviews. He doesn't consider that those reviews could be because they liked it. He suggests there is some other reason at play.. He discusses deals with media companies and gifts. Hes talking about a conspiracy to make game of Thrones look good. What documentary were you watching 

But he never talks about conspiracy. That's you reading into it. And you've been doing it for weeks now. The documentary clearly shows that the media are biased. You have one critic openly admitting he's biased. conspiracy is something else, and you're misusing that word to defend the show.

[Ser Gareth]

48 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Out of all the millions of critics in the world he managed to dredge up one obscure woman from Serbia. That was it. 

He alluded to some behind the scenes shenanigans about corporations colluding with each other to give Game of Thrones good reviews, but he didn't have any evidence to back it up. I waited for the whole documentary for him to say something worthwhile, but he didn't manage it. He had nothing of any worth to pull out to back up his claims. 

He cannot consider for a moment that people can like the show. He cannot understand that some people are not bothered by the same things he is. He cannot get his head round the possibility that people can see occasional flaws in a show and still love it. THAT to me is the interesting part of the documentary, his mental state. The actual content was pretty much empty.

It's basically someone who hates the show and cannot believe or accept its success.  So therefore excuses are required as to how a terrible show can be so popular.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

8 minutes ago, StepStark said:

But he never talks about conspiracy. That's you reading into it. And you've been doing it for weeks now. The documentary clearly shows that the media are biased. You have one critic openly admitting he's biased. conspiracy is something else, and you're misusing that word to defend the show.

They're pretty much saying, almost literally, "the show invests a lot of money for the press: that's why you can't find Serbian critics".

[The fanny from hell]

21 hours ago, RUSSELL BELL said:

For what is worth. I liked it. A bit of a slog at some points as many of the points have been made on R&R threads but well worth the 69p.

That said, I'm a lover of the show and I see the flaws already but I didn't really leave hating the show or liking it less than I do. What I found most interesting though is that professional critics aren't very professional and never really have been.

This was a good start. You almost made my remark look totally idiotic. Almost. But Show Defender #1 of course had to appear.

8 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

So I have endorsed this documentary by giving him my 69p, I feel bad for doing that, but I can't give my opinion if I haven't seen it. I will say that the maker of the documentary is pretty much a lunatic, like an uber ranter, but I have to give him a bunch of credit for allowing people to disagree with him in his own documentary and there are a number of sensible voices contained within it.

Of course you got the impression that he's a lunatic. He's the embodiment of the "ranters", that species you thought only existed as keyboard entities, but here you see him as a real human, flesh and blood. That's bound to startle you.

[The fanny from hell]

BTW, I think Sasse's remark is so indefensible, that's why Miodrag didn't even push him on it. That guy played the part of the "organized" show defender, which would be equivalent to the people running Winter is Coming or Watchers on the Wall. These people can have a dissenting opinion, or have at least a few negative things to say about Game of Thrones, but they just won't say it so the clicks continue to support their sites.

[StepStark]

4 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

They're pretty much saying, almost literally, "the show invests a lot of money for the press: that's why you can't find Serbian critics".

But Serbia isn't important, according to Channel4s-JonSnow.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Just now, StepStark said:

But Serbia isn't important, according to Channel4s-JonSnow.

Not at all. That's just the place where GoT is filmed, like Spain...

[JonCon's Red Beard]

*Croatia, not Serbia...

 

U ALL WHITES LOOK THE SAME!

[Joe Pesci]

44 minutes ago, StepStark said:

But it's Sasse who makes illogical claim, not Miodrag. Sasse says that it's not valid to say that the show is stupid because not all storylines are stupid. That is a weak argument for any story. It's not that he doesn't think the show is stupid, but he says that it's not a valid criticism. I'm surprised Miodrag didn't pursue that further. He was generally nicer to them than I expected, and I think the doc would be stronger if he pushed them some more.

Well their exchange is really just differing opinions when it is all said and done, neither really developed their thoughts/opinions very well past their basic premise or presented any real counter arguments or facts at all. Miodrag has his few examples of what he thinks is stupid from the show but the lack of debate on them is rather baffling and a missed opportunity to help illustrate his point.

 

53 minutes ago, StepStark said:

But there never was any backlash! Was anyone attacked for not reading the books? A lot of actors obviously don't read them and nobody's attacking them for that. I think that one of the screenwriters from the first season also didn't read the books, Vanessa something, and she talked about it in interviews, and nobody attacked her for that. So it's a false claim that they are afraid. If they are afraid, they are idiots. If they aren't afraid, they are hypocrites. I'm sick of people letting them of the hook just because they are actors. They are adults, they should behave responsibly, which means that they shouldn't treat fans like morons.

I never said there was backlash, it's just my opinion that there probably would be. It would've flown under the radar in the early part of the series as the media attention to GoT wasn't like it is now, but with the mass interest in the show currently and how media in general over exaggerates any small snippet into a big story nowadays, I think it would become a story if an actor spoke disparagingly about not wanting to read the books and that it would get headlines online. And I agree they shouldn't treat fans like morons, but they are free to answer however they want, if their answers aren't what a person wants to hear, so be it. I personally don't see what an actor says in an interview as that important in the grand scheme of things, and that just doesn't pertain strictly to GoT.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

26 minutes ago, StepStark said:

But Serbia isn't important, according to Channel4s-JonSnow.

Tell me the last piece of serious film critique you read in Serbian. Go ahead.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

42 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

They're pretty much saying, almost literally, "the show invests a lot of money for the press: that's why you can't find Serbian critics".

Exactly, hes alluding to some collusion by parties to ensure that Game of Thrones is beyond criticism.

Problem is he hasn't got anything gets to back up his claims which makes his documentary essentially pointless.

[dsug]

So from what I've heard (obviously not paying for this crap) this guy made a documentary about completely unfounded claims of what? Media consipiracies? #ILLUMINATICONFIRMED? Just to justify his hatred for a goddamned tv show?

LOL

[StepStark]

5 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Tell me the last piece of serious film critique you read in Serbian. Go ahead.

What that has to do with anything? She was important enough for HBO to invite her to those events and host her for days. That's all that matters, I think.

[The fanny from hell]

8 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Tell me the last piece of serious film critique you read in Serbian. Go ahead.

You're like a yankee disparaging soccer football.

Keep it up dude. Your level is so, so high.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

6 minutes ago, dsug said:

So from what I've heard (obviously not paying for this crap) this guy made a documentary about completely unfounded claims of what? Media consipiracies? #ILLUMINATICONFIRMED? Just to justify his hatred for a goddamned tv show?

LOL

The documentary essentially doesn't have a point. It tries to ask a series of questions, but mostly comes off as a guy who hates the show and can't understand why people don't agree with him. The way he pulls out scenes and calls them awful or nonsensical only makes him look more silly and ruins his point. If he's going to talk about the show being awful, why doesn't he talk about things that are universally recognised as bad like Dorne, or examine why the shows quality is up and down. 

He has no real argument, and his documentary is all over the place, with no real coherent thought. 

There are also a number of production issues that make it come across as pretty amateurish, like the way you here him mumbling over other people when they are speaking.

[RUSSELL BELL]

55 minutes ago, Fanny said:

This was a good start. You almost made my remark look totally idiotic. Almost. But Show Defender #1 of course had to appear.

Of course you got the impression that he's a lunatic. He's the embodiment of the "ranters", that species you thought only existed as keyboard entities, but here you see him as a real human, flesh and blood. That's bound to startle you.

Hardly.. I have as much problems with the show as much as the next man. I just tend not to rant obsessively as its counterproductive in my personal opinion. Also, its not like I hated it. I just didn't think it was as good as it could have been because Miodrag clearly let some of his irrational book anger bias get in the way in several instances. 

[Ser Gareth]

38 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Exactly, hes alluding to some collusion by parties to ensure that Game of Thrones is beyond criticism.

Problem is he hasn't got anything gets to back up his claims which makes his documentary essentially pointless.

Ironically I have seen a lot of criticism of the show in the press.  The problem for many is that a lot of the stuff the press is critical of also applies to the books, so they gloss over that criticism.  They are only interested in criticism that validates their own views.

[Vernon Roche]

2 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Ironically I have seen a lot of criticism of the show in the press.  The problem for many is that a lot of the stuff the press is critical of also applies to the books, so they gloss over that criticism.  They are only interested in criticism that validates their own views.

Delicious confirmation bias.

[Ser Gareth]

27 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

The documentary essentially doesn't have a point. It tries to ask a series of questions, but mostly comes off as a guy who hates the show and can't understand why people don't agree with him. The way he pulls out scenes and calls them awful or nonsensical only makes him look more silly and ruins his point. If he's going to talk about the show being awful, why doesn't he talk about things that are universally recognised as bad like Dorne, or examine why the shows quality is up and down. 

He has no real argument, and his documentary is all over the place, with no real coherent thought. 

There are also a number of production issues that make it come across as pretty amateurish, like the way you here him mumbling over other people when they are speaking.

Exactly.  He isn't looking to provide an unbiased critical view.  He is effectively ranting.  His motives are both/or either to gain a sycophantic following of those who agree with him and to try and turn people against the show.

He basically falls into the trap as all the others though.  Don't like the show?  Don't watch the show.  Simple as that.

Of course the real psychology behind this is that most of these "haters" came about after the Shireen reveal.  They are projecting their own frustration that the tale is being told by the show now and not the books.  They cling to thin hopes like "The show and the books are different so I won't be spoiled" and then ironically are critical of the show for not being close enough to the books!  They won't dare be critical of GRRM so they have to vent their frustrations towards the show.  And in reality most are like the rest of us.  They are tired of waiting for the books so they want to see what happens next.  And that is the real reason why they continue to watch the show even though they claim to hate it.  They're just as obsessed with the show as those that love it.  Which means HBO, D&D win either way.

But you know as well as I that you're wasting your time trying to debate objectively with "ranters".  They are the extreme view holders and it's impossible to ever debate with people who have extreme views.  Likewise it's impossible to debate with anyone who thinks the show is flawless. 

Just take comfort in the statistical fact that the ranters are very much in the minority both in this forum and in the world.  Yes the rant threads and negative threads about the show are the most popular in terms of post count but just take a look at the ratings threads per episodes and then read the thread.  I now have a method of deducing who it is worth debating with on critical points.  Check to see if the posters hangs out frequently in the rant thread.  If they are in there a lot then don't even bother replying to negative posts they make about the show in other threads because it's not worth it.

Back on topic with this "documentary".  Of course there is a massive agenda on this forum to push it hard and make it seem like a sensible viewpoint.  But you've already nailed it.  It's a very one sided, bitter piece that isn't at all objective or fair.  I can easily find criticism's of the show all over the place.  Violence, boooooobs, poor pacing, illogical story arcs etc.  Some are valid IMO, some are not.  But the press are awash with praise and criticism of the show.  It's certainly not one sided praise.....

[ofgs]

58 minutes ago, Fanny said:

You're like a yankee disparaging soccer football.

Keep it up dude. Your level is so, so high.

*sigh*

well we've hit playground level now, haven't we.