CLEGANEBOWL

[Warsaw]

22 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Am I the only one annoyed that instead of giving him some new outlook for life & rethinking priorities time, they immediately push Sandor on some REVENGE quest? I guess 'the Hound is dead, Sandor Clegane is at rest' idea is bad for TV...

No, you are not.

[ColorsVersatile]

26 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Am I the only one annoyed that instead of giving him some new outlook for life & rethinking priorities time, they immediately push Sandor on some REVENGE quest? I guess 'the Hound is dead, Sandor Clegane is at rest' idea is bad for TV...

I think he has a new outlook on life but he made it very clear to Meribald that hate kept him going, and that he didn't renounce violence and would use it if needed.

Sandor has never been cruel, even in KL.
He said to Sansa that "killing is the sweetest thing there is". But on the other hand, the way he remembered and spoke about the butcher's boy to Arya showed that he was remorseful to some extend, and just didn't enjoy SOME of the killing. Unlike what he told Sansa.
Maybe he tried to convinced himself that he liked it, to be able to live with himself?

So I don't think he will go crazy on his revenge quest, but I can totally picture him setting scores and moving on. You know, bringing even a tiny bit of justice instead of "the strongest survive" way of life?

The difference between Sandor now, and what he was in KL, is that back then he just followed orders and didn't care (or tried to) if he thought it was right or wrong.

I think Meribald' speech about "helping people" had an impact on him. He is his own man. So I think he will kill people who he thinks deserved to be killed, and help people who deserved to be helped.

Hence why everyone is speculating about the fact that he might join the Starks-Jon-Brienne faction...

If he is obsessing too much over his revenge, then I will be annoyed too.

Sorry for the rent, Sandor is my favorite character and I am super excited to see him back

[mbuehner]

50 minutes ago, Warsaw said:

It COULD have been towers, you're right, but if they are, they probably just stole the cloak from a Frey victim.

Yeah, i think you're right. Interesting though!

[WinterCloak]

In all honesty? I don't want to see Cleganebowl. Sandor isn't a sycophant and converted in the light of the seven, he's still cynical and realistic about the world. I think he'd see right through the HS and be all, 'f*ck the HS'. 

However interesting it is that hate kept him going, I also think it's the most realistic answer. What else would he reflect on as he dies? His little bird? As touching as that would be, I think he'd be bitter about his life and unfair it is that he was hated and feared because of his face...and all that stems from that, actions etc. 

I'd prefer to see Sandor fighting the 'real war' because it suits his character better than fighting in KL, even if it is against his undead brother that burned him (who he hated). He does like to protect the vulnerable (Sansa, Arya) and I'd prefer to see him fighting for a cause that matters.

Hadn't thought about Heartsbane. That would be cool to see him dust WW with VS.

[Nutbean]

I can't help but think Cleganebowl is actually beneath him now.

Sandor's importance to the plot has been specifically addressed in this episode by giving him a rare cold open, the majority of screen time and he then also closed out this episode. On top of that, he (and the audience) is reminded how the Gods must have plans for him and Sandor himself even recalls how it wasn't the first time he was told that. I knew he would be back because there is no way he survived the trial by combat against Beric Dondarrion and his flaming sword just to wander around aimlessly and die alone from an infection. 

In the grand scheme of things, with everything else that is going down North of the Wall with the Night's King, etc., how much do the Gods really care about Gregor or Cersei that they would have Sandor survive all that he has just to commit one of their most heinous sins of kinslaying? Gregor doesn't even really do much now except stand behind Cersei mutely. Cersei has not exactly had an easy time of it lately either to make her death feel super satisfying for the audience at this point.

Unless something happens in the next few episodes to make Gregor and/or Cersei's demise of utmost importance to the Gods' master plan, it just seems kind of small potatoes now in my opinion. I think the Gods' (i.e. GRRM's and therefore also D&D's) plans for Sandor involves something much more substantial. 

Regardless, maybe they'll shoehorn Cleganebowl in just to please the audience. I hope not though. If it's done, it has to make sense. 

[Xarkar]

18 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I think the Hound will wind up wielding Heartsbane in the battle vs the WW's...

Not sure how he gets it, but Sam sure as hell isnt capable of using it so this wouldnt be all that bad.

[Xarkar]

8 hours ago, SwordofEarlyAfternoon said:

...and what if the Faith makes King Tommen their Champion?  Does Cersei allow RS to kill her son?  Does she put her own life before Tommen's, essentially her money where her mouth is?

This would actually be rather entertaining.

Tommen the new Pious king decides that the faith will protect him.  Cersei now must choose, to have Tommen killed, or die herself.

Knowing that Tommen is gone to the faith already, she has him killed. and takes the Iron throne for herself..

 

That would be epic....

[Xarkar]

8 hours ago, ColorsVersatile said:

I didn't think about that at all!
But now that you say it, I think he is actually the best option.

A sorry excuse for a fight and UnGregor crushing him in a few seconds.
That would be shock material, and it would be a nice parallel to his first/last encounter with Gregor.

And who likes Loras nowadays anyway?

Sometimes, I wonder if we are not going to witness the fall of all seven great houses both in the books and show.
Baratheons and Martells are already gone. Lannisters, Tullys and Arryns are pretty much on the way. And things are not looking too good for the Starks.
The Tyrell didn't take any serious blow so far, the death of Mace's only son would destroy his house.

Cersei's due will come, but slowly and painfully.

Baratheons gone by blood, but not by name )

Martells.  All the sand snakes live.

Tullys  Still 2 alive

Arryns  Sweetrobin still alive and kicking with a Giant army.

Starks Lots of kids left, but in theory their house has already fallen... they need to reclaim it.

Tyrell...  Mace is an idiot they knew Loras was gay, he should have made sure he had another kid.

 

I dont think all the houses will fall

[ricardoromell]

So, Cleganebowl might happen in this way.

Hound goes to pick a bone with the BwB, The brotherhood knowing hes a wanted man for leaving the battle at blackwater, ransom him over to the king to stand trial. 

Hound is to be executed for desertion. In the meantime there is a trial by combat chosen in Cerseis case. The faith make a proposition of either Clegane dies by execution or he could champion the faith and live if he wins.

[Rory Snow]

On 6/6/2016 at 10:32 PM, anjulibai said:

He'll avenge himself on the Brotherhood Without Banners (though I'm wondering if that's really the Brave Companions pretending to be the BWOB),

I was thinking the same thing. Why would the Brotherhood kill all those people when they pose no threat whatsoever? It seems like an act much more in character for the Brave Companions. The Brotherhood aren't angels, but they are basically "the good guys".

[HellasLEAF]

10 hours ago, Tianzi said:

Am I the only one annoyed that instead of giving him some new outlook for life & rethinking priorities time, they immediately push Sandor on some REVENGE quest? I guess 'the Hound is dead, Sandor Clegane is at rest' idea is bad for TV...

The people that saved his life and gave him a new purpose were all just brutally murdered.  Good people.  He might be a little pissed off.  

But whatevs.  

[Vastet]

I wonder if Gregor is as trustworthy to the Lannisters as the Lannisters think. Qyburn was the only survivor of a Lannister led massacre. He was rescued by Robb Stark and his wife, and then taken in by Roose Bolton. He took full advantage of Jamie and used him to get to Kings Landing. The path that led him to Kings Landing should not be ignored.

[Tianzi]

7 hours ago, HellasLEAF said:

The people that saved his life and gave him a new purpose were all just brutally murdered.  Good people.  He might be a little pissed off.  

But whatevs.  

Well, I'm blaming the plot, not his reactions.

Fine with the necessary violence - this is Westeros, you can't manage without if you don't live under the rock - but this REVENGE theme is very tired, overused and disappointing in a character who was about to have a fresh turn.

[mbuehner]

5 hours ago, Tianzi said:

Well, I'm blaming the plot, not his reactions.

Fine with the necessary violence - this is Westeros, you can't manage without if you don't live under the rock - but this REVENGE theme is very tired, overused and disappointing in a character who was about to have a fresh turn.

 

I would not be remotely surprised if either it doesnt end up being a revenge theme, or it immediately gets flipped on its head. I mean, thats how you surprise people right? Set them up to fall back into the same patterns and then let them make a different choice at a critical moment.

[Alaynsa Starne]

16 hours ago, Xarkar said:

Baratheons gone by blood, but not by name )

Martells.  All the sand snakes live.

Tullys  Still 2 alive

Arryns  Sweetrobin still alive and kicking with a Giant army.

Starks Lots of kids left, but in theory their house has already fallen... they need to reclaim it.

Tyrell...  Mace is an idiot they knew Loras was gay, he should have made sure he had another kid.

 

I dont think all the houses will fall

I don't think so either. The Greyjoys still have Asha and Euron who can have an heir. All the Stark kids besides Robb are still alive. Even if Loras does die, Marge should legally be able to inherit if there are no male heirs, and she can always have kids. Sweetrobin looks plenty healthy and well-guarded on top of that. Plus, without the Harry the Heir plot, I very much doubt that show LF will try to kill Sweetrobin. Edmure's a little worse for wear, but he's not dead yet. The only house that's well and truly fucked is House Martell. The Sandsnakes are bastards. They can't inherit or hold lands. 

[WinterCloak]

Sandor 'The Huntsman' Clegane. 

Can't wait to see him next episode

[Vastet]

"The only house that's well and truly fucked is House Martell. The Sandsnakes are bastards. They can't inherit or hold lands. "

That's not actually true. Dorne doesn't attach a stigma to bastards the way the rest of Westeros does. Of all the 7 Kingdoms, Dorne is by far the most likely to accept a bastard as Lord. A bastard will actually be the line of succession in Dorne. Behind all the true borns, as if the youngest. But still there. The Sandsnakes own Dorne right now.

[roi_de_fer]

So glad the Hound is back!  Just goes to show you nobody is dead on GOT until you've seen their head on a pike.  Makes me wonder whether Stannis is really dead...

[Vastet]

I still have a very slight chink in my certainty about Stannis, but there's no logical reason for Brienne to let him go yet claim she executed him. Right up until that moment I was leaning heavily towards Stannis surviving somehow, but now I can't really see it.

[Aint Nuthin But A HoundDog]

On June 6, 2016 at 3:14 PM, ColorsVersatile said:

I think he has a new outlook on life but he made it very clear to Meribald that hate kept him going, and that he didn't renounce violence and would use it if needed.

Sandor has never been cruel, even in KL.
He said to Sansa that "killing is the sweetest thing there is". But on the other hand, the way he remembered and spoke about the butcher's boy to Arya showed that he was remorseful to some extend, and just didn't enjoy SOME of the killing. Unlike what he told Sansa.
Maybe he tried to convinced himself that he liked it, to be able to live with himself?

So I don't think he will go crazy on his revenge quest, but I can totally picture him setting scores and moving on. You know, bringing even a tiny bit of justice instead of "the strongest survive" way of life?

The difference between Sandor now, and what he was in KL, is that back then he just followed orders and didn't care (or tried to) if he thought it was right or wrong.

I think Meribald' speech about "helping people" had an impact on him. He is his own man. So I think he will kill people who he thinks deserved to be killed, and help people who deserved to be helped.

Hence why everyone is speculating about the fact that he might join the Starks-Jon-Brienne faction...

If he is obsessing too much over his revenge, then I will be annoyed too.

Sorry for the rent, Sandor is my favorite character and I am super excited to see him back

Sandor is my favorite, too. 

And I agree. He absolutely is a changed man. I think maybe some fans were expecting him to become a priest, but the difference is more subtle. His attack on the outlaws who killed his friend(s) is more about justice in his eyes than revenge. He knows Ray was a good man, and the others in the camp he was beginning to see as family. Killing the outlaws was his way of bringing about closure.

Now that he's taken care of the bad guys, he seems to be seriously contemplating his purpose in life. It's no longer about survival of the fittest to him. He realizes there are good people in Westeros who could benefit from his assistance. Of course the thing he does best is still killing, but he'll be killing for a different reason.

I also noticed that he's a much more patient person that before. He's still sarcastic and blunt, but the giant chip on his shoulder is gone.