Who did Sansa write to, because my first thought was not LF.

[Nakraal]

9 hours ago, Gertrude said:

I have to watch it again, but didn't Jon just tell her they didn't have time to go to the Cerwyns? And Sansa knows the Cerwyns have a recent and specific grudge against Ramsey (not Roose, Ramsey) because he skinned the old Lord for not paying taxes. They need some Northern Houses, right? Cerwyn has been name dropped several times and that was my first thought as to who her letter was going to. I see everyone assuming it's Littlefinger. I see why, but that's not very satisfying to me, not like Sansa using some specific knowledge gained while at Winterfell to sway a House to her cause.

Of course, getting satisfaction out of the show is a long-shot, I know. Convince me I'm wrong about the Cerwyns. If it's Littlefinger after all, I'm calling complete bullshit on Sansa being a boss ass bitch this season.

She mentioning the Cerwyns a scene before her letter was a "tool" to make us think she is not sending to LF when she actualy is.

[Gertrude]

The Vale has seaports for trading. They are as seafaring as any country with a coastline - so all of the Kingdoms in Westeros.

Also, just saw on another site a close up of Sansa's note and it definitely has the word 'Vale' in it and it's clear she's writing to Littlefinger. Dang it. Where is the strong Sansa we were promised? I haven't seen a shred of it so far. Direwolf embroidery doesn't count.

[A Ghost of Someone]

We are two - episodes from ep 9 which is usually where the big battles go down. It was to Littlefinger, no doubt. What did she write on it was purposely blurred. Was she "offering" something in return for his help?

What was really interesting was the preview where Brienne meets the Blackfish and he looks astonished to see the letter from Sansa. I think he and many men may try and launch a diversion and try and get North because the Stark sibblings of Robb are the future of the Kingdom that he fights for and rather than sit there in Riverrun, for two years, with no wife and heir to himself, Edmure is a gonner, so what else is he fighting for there but pride. He will try and make his life count for something. He will try and fight for Sansa if he can get there in time. I think we get a battle at Riverrun in Ep 8. In think all of slow stuff over the last two episodes is done.

[Forlong the Fat]

11 minutes ago, Jaqitch H'ghar said:

Since when is the Vale a seafaring people? And the reason they would take that route is if you look at a map the northwestern part of the territory is extremely mountainous. Vale Map

Don't really understand this question: are they a seafaring people? They have a major port: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gulltown. They have as much reason and capacity to have and use ships as the rest of Westeros. 

[TheKnightOfJests]

It would be cool to have her send to House Cerwyn, and us see new characters, but I doubt the show writers are that intelligent. I think Sophie Turner just said the whole "boss @$$ b!+ch" thing cause she can't really say anything bad about the show as a main actress. They said Sansa was going to be awesome last season too.....

[Jaqitch H'ghar]

3 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Don't really understand this question: are they a seafaring people? They have a major port: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Gulltown. They have as much reason and capacity to have and use ships as the rest of Westeros. 

Which would force them to sail around the entire peninsula. Either way, the Vale army arriving in Cailin without notice is way too much deus ex machina.

[Forlong the Fat]

6 minutes ago, Jaqitch H'ghar said:

Which would force them to sail around the entire peninsula. Either way, the Vale army arriving in Cailin without notice is way too much deus ex machina.

You are just hell bent on criticizing one of the least problematic details in the show. They could march on the Kingsroad, going nowhere near Riverrun or the Twins, without any problem. They could sail an established route from Gulltown to Whiteharbor (or likely land somewhere smaller south of Whiteharbor. And your concern is that the Freys, who are noted for nothing more than their incompetence, obviously would have seen them. 

And this is all because you are stubbornly defending your original, mistaken notion they had to pass The Twins to get to Moat Cailin. 

[Jaqitch H'ghar]

Just now, Forlong the Fat said:

You are just hell bent on criticizing one of the least problematic details in the show.

What 'detail' is that? How armies/fleets move great distances wholesale without detection? Seems believable.

[Gertrude]

I think the first mistake is applying logic to the show ...

[Jaqitch H'ghar]

Just now, Gertrude said:

I think the first mistake is applying logic to the show ...

Point well taken.

[Forlong the Fat]

Just now, Jaqitch H'ghar said:

What 'detail' is that? How armies/fleets move great distances wholesale without detection? Seems believable.

The detail you invented for yourself to complain about: Freys must have noticed army moving. 

For that matter, what makes you think no one detected the Vale army moving? There's no one likely to detect it who would give them battle to stop them. Should the show have a seen somewhere that says "I noticed the Vale army marching North." Someone else says "Does that affect us in any way?" And the reply is "no, just thought you should know."

[dbunting]

To me the only person she could be writing to is LF. I mean who else could there be? If it was another northern family, why make it look like she is hiding? I just wish it wasn't being played out as Sansa hiding things from Jon, but I guess that's the fan in me.

Before we get too crazy, let the season play out and then look back on it as a whole. Imagine if we only got one chapter of the books each week and had to guess and wonder what happened in the next chapter and had to wait a whole week while discussing and breaking down every sentence in the chapter, it would be just as bad as this.

[Jaqitch H'ghar]

Just now, Forlong the Fat said:

Quote

The detail you invented for yourself to complain about: Freys must have noticed army moving. 

Not just the Freys, anyone. One of the only untouched armies in the story moves out of its stronghold completely undetected, travels hundreds of miles and no one notices. Seems plausible.

1 minute ago, Forlong the Fat said:

 

For that matter, what makes you think no one detected the Vale army moving? There's no one likely to detect it who would give them battle to stop them. Should the show have a seen somewhere that says "I noticed the Vale army marching North." Someone else says "Does that affect us in any way?" And the reply is "no, just thought you should know."

Actually, it would have made some sense to reference it in regards the Freys/Lanniseters thinking their alleged allies were going north to deal with their mutual enemies.

 

[Forlong the Fat]

3 minutes ago, Jaqitch H'ghar said:

 

Who says no one noticed? Has there been a scene with anyone who should have noticed and cared who acted like they didn't notice and care?

Maybe you're saying that, after Jaime slapped him, Frey should have said "I know this has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening here, but I want to register the Freys' notice of a Vale army marching north."

No, I have it. After Bronn says "you didn't notice an army of 8000 March up behind you, one of the Freys could have said "at least we noticed the Vale army marching to Moat Cailin."

[ErasmusF]

15 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Who says no one noticed? Has there been a scene with anyone who should have noticed and cared who acted like they didn't notice and care?

Maybe you're saying that, after Jaime slapped him, Frey should have said "I know this has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening here, but I want to register the Freys' notice of a Vale army marching north."

No, I have it. After Bronn says "you didn't notice an army of 8000 March up behind you, one of the Freys could have said "at least we noticed the Vale army marching to Moat Cailin."

This.

1) There isn't a major bannerman between the Bloody Gate and Greywater watch. As little sense as that makes IRL, The closest you would pass is to Darry, which even in the books is unoccupied (by a lord) at this point. So in theory you could get an army of any size up that road without being "noticed" unless someone was specifically watching the road. 

2) As previously mentioned, the Frey's aren't very savvy about having men out watching the roads. They Frey's pretty much wait for the fight to come to them. "The Late Walder Frey" was an earned nickname. 

3) No one trust the Freys. Even if they did have bannermen watching the road, my guess is that LF would be able to buy them off for a song. Are any of their bannermen actually loyal to them? Or are they just biding their time until they can take back the Riverlands - the Blackwoods, Brackens, and Tullys at a minimum. 

[TheSerb]

There was far too much emphasis on Sansa writing the letter for it to be intended to such minor characters like the Cerwyns. If she was sending them a letter, they'd handwave it. But this letter is very important.

[TickTak7]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

The Vale has seaports for trading. They are as seafaring as any country with a coastline - so all of the Kingdoms in Westeros.

Also, just saw on another site a close up of Sansa's note and it definitely has the word 'Vale' in it and it's clear she's writing to Littlefinger. Dang it. Where is the strong Sansa we were promised? I haven't seen a shred of it so far. Direwolf embroidery doesn't count.

One could argue that this is an example of Sansa being strong? 

No longer is she thinking impulsively or with emotion, but strategically? 

She hates Littlefinger, but sees him as a necessary evil to forward her cause, and therefore is prepared to use him - essentially playing the game herself? 

I feel like this season's Sansa is more in line with the sort of firm, interesting Sansa that we've been dying to see. 

[Nerevanin]

1 hour ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

 

This last episode was dumb.  They mentioned the Manderlays twice this season but no one thought to go ask them for allegiance?

And why isn't Sansa talking about Baelish to Jon? Why keep that a secret?  None of the Starks know it was Baelish that betrayed Ned and set this whole thing in motion by having Lysa Aryn murder Jon Aryn.  Why would Jon be against the Knights of the Vale fighting along side them?

Jon says explicitly that he sent ravens to House Manderly.

I think that Sansa keeps Littlefinger's and the Vale army's near existence as a secret on purpose, to have an ace up her sleeve. Honestly, she really looks like using Jon and playing a different game than he is. LF is a great advantage to her.

[TickTak7]

2 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

 

This last episode was dumb.  They mentioned the Manderlays twice this season but no one thought to go ask them for allegiance? 

Where was Davos' brilliant speech about the army of the dead to House Glover?  

Why are the show writers turning the BwB into villains? 

And why isn't Sansa talking about Baelish to Jon? Why keep that a secret?  None of the Starks know it was Baelish that betrayed Ned and set this whole thing in motion by having Lysa Aryn murder Jon Aryn.  Why would Jon be against the Knights of the Vale fighting along side them?

1st - Recall that Davos has informed them which houses are already aligned with the Boltons (including the Manderleys, Umbers, and the Karsarks). Considering Ramsey already has Rickon, it doesn't make much sense for them to travel to one of those houses, simply to be captured & delivered to Ramsey. Sending a raven is probably the safer bet. 

2nd - Jon will know that it was Littlefinger that married off Sansa to Ramsey, and will therefore not trust him, or want him anywhere near Sansa, presumably. 

 

 

[Bear Claw]

15 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Jon says explicitly that he sent ravens to House Manderly.

I think that Sansa keeps Littlefinger's and the Vale army's near existence as a secret on purpose, to have an ace up her sleeve. Honestly, she really looks like using Jon and playing a different game than he is. LF is a great advantage to her.

I don't agree. I think she wants her home and family back.  If they fail they will all be executed. The stakes are high. She wanted to try to take the North without LF's help, but they just don't have enough men. The look on her face when she wrote the letter didn't reflect self-satisfaction at playing her game.  She seemed very serious and concerned. I think the not telling Jon is more of a show method to reflect how she has learned intrigue. However, I think that Jon would not agree to any help from LF  so not telling him might be understandable in that regard. In any case, they need the Vale.