Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Durran Durrandon

What does Euron really want with Daenerys?

Recommended Posts

On 8.6.2016 at 0:10 AM, Durran Durrandon said:

The sphinxes, who knows.

The Sphinx from the riddles comes to mind - this could be related somehow to the Maesters.

It seems they are against magic, but not all of them, and after all they seem to have some knowledge about magic.

---

Very good original post, by the way! Thanks for that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonder what the vision where Euron has tentacles mean. Does it means that Euron is a true ironborn or perhaps that he is corrupted and will get literal tentacles. Hmm , maybe Euron is GRRMs Davy Jones . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Euron" might be a name trick like "Hodor".... What does "Euron" sound like?

S+Euron.... SAURON! Now his evil eye makes sense. The Eye of Sauron!

Theon/Reek is Euron's Gollum. And Euron's horn is basically the One Ring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2016 at 2:50 AM, The Chequered Raven said:

The Sphinx from the riddles comes to mind - this could be related somehow to the Maesters.

It seems they are against magic, but not all of them, and after all they seem to have some knowledge about magic.

---

Very good original post, by the way! Thanks for that!

Thanks, and yeah, a faction among the maesters is my top pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2016 at 2:04 PM, LordImp said:

Wonder what the vision where Euron has tentacles mean. Does it means that Euron is a true ironborn or perhaps that he is corrupted and will get literal tentacles. Hmm , maybe Euron is GRRMs Davy Jones . 

I think he had comnected with some power source associated with the Drowned God or perhaps the Deep Ones, but again, I think v we are taking about power sources, not personified gods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Euron is from a family whose sigil is the Kraken. Also he may have set things up so that his powers, capabilities or allies have a very long reach so he can act a long way from where he actually is. For instance, having an agent, whether knowing or not, on board the Iron Fleet (the Dusky Woman is a highly likely candidate) for this.

There's a whole lot of traditional dark magic associated with body parts - control part of somebody and you can use it to control all of them. Euron cuts out the tongues of many that serve him, including the Dusky Woman - maybe through it he has some magic that lets him hear what she hears, or see what she sees.

(And may thus, once Victarion has the horn blown which is still bound to Euron rather than Victarion, allow him to control any dragon that hears the horn at a distance, through her, and feign that it is obeying Victarion's orders until the time comes to show otherwise - namely, when Victarion brings it back and attempts to use it against his brother.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20.6.2016 at 11:04 PM, LordImp said:

Wonder what the vision where Euron has tentacles mean.

Isn't there a horn to summon Krakens aut of the deep?

Maybe a hint that Euron gets this horn as well...???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, The Chequered Raven said:

Isn't there a horn to summon Krakens aut of the deep?

Maybe a hint that Euron gets this horn as well...???

Yup. There is a rumored kraken horn at Claw Island or something and thats not out of Eurons Reach and if he indeed takes KL some day he might stop there on his way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8 June 2016 at 8:10 AM, Durran Durrandon said:

I'm not sure. I have long not seen the initial attempt to retrieve Daenerys by Victarion as being unsuccessful, so I don't thin Daenerys will meet up with Euron until she returns to Westeros with her forces. IN the Forsaken we get the image from Aeron's dream where Euron blows his horn and dragons, krakens, and sphinxes come to the call. As usual I imagine that this is metaphorical. Targaryans, Iron Born and who ever the sphinxes are will join team Euron. Now the dragons could be team Aegon or his supporters if he is killed. The sphinxes, who knows. I see maybe a faction of the maesters aligned with Alleras the Sphinx aka Sallera Sand, or maybe its the Sand Snakes? He could have a back up plan to kidnap her when she arrives in Westeros. I think the visions indicate he will hold the Iron Throne for some period of time.

I think in naming dragons, krakens and sphinxes its people with metaphysical powers or interests that are being summoned to do his will, not someone like Aegon choosing to align with him. There is no sign so far of Aegon having any special Targ powers so I think the dragons Euron wants may be both actual dragons - Dany's - and real Targaryeans with some sort of powers (dragon hatching/riding/controlling). I agree the sphinxes are most likely to be people like Marwyn and his followers including Alleras who are studying arcane wisdom. Quaithe also seems sphinx like. Its possible that there is more about sphinxes to be revealed - that missing sphinx statue has always nagged at my brain. The krakens may represent drowned God priests like Euron himself or just all the ironmen he is presently surrounded with and will be for some time (or I suppose actual Kraken's raised from the deep with the horn).

I think these visions are Aeron making sense of what Euron has been ranting about to him while quaffing the blue stuff. That Euron foresees the end of the world and the birth of a new God, which he plans to be. As outlined in your comments about Yi Ti in TWOIAF. That if Aeron thinks Euron wants the Iron throne he should think again, its the throne of a God he wants. 

Euron is a nut job who may have happened on to real magic and wants some more, seems to be the situation. I don't see Aerons visions as necessarily coming true in the way Euron would like.

  • “Worms await you, Aeron.” And then it was not Urri, but Euron Bloodeye - sitting upon a throne of black skulls. Dwarfs attending him, bleeding star, the world will broken and remade. A horn blew and summoned dragons and krakens and sphinxes. “I am your king, I am your god.” 
  • .......
  • Blows a horn and sphinxes and other creatures bow to him
  • “Euron says, ‘Look and see what I am seated on.’” 

 

 

 

  • Skull throne replaced by Iron Throne with all the different gods impaled on it
  • The seven hung around him, the goat, the pale child Bakkalon (thanks /u/tjtjjtjt), the butterfly god, the red god. And the drowned god, with crabs, and sea water dripping from his hair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎07‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 9:07 PM, JLE said:

Dany will NOT have an army with her when she returns to Westeros.

She will have na army when she returns or she won't return at all!

On ‎07‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 9:07 PM, JLE said:

Even if Dany makes it back to Meereen... the city is shattered and ruined,

It does not matter. Daenarys Targaryen will return to the city; if she will get over all enemies and restore it might to be seen. If you are right, better. I want all that city of traitors and the Sons of the Harpy with all enemies outside killed, destroyed, burned, even all pyramides on the ground. They deserve no less.

So if you are right excellent, if not, not that bad either with Mereen (partially) restored.

 

And about the dragons and Daenarys not having a proper Army when she arrives at Westeros:

He won't use it at this fight. Don't forget that Moqorro is with him, which Victarion already respects and he will do everthing to uphold and really aid Daenarys. It will probably be used. But very probably not at this fight.

 

About not having enough ships. Probably she will have enough from Victarion and her enemies' ships who will lose this "war". Even is that is not enough she still has Vollantis on her way to Westeros and the "Lady" there told Tyrion that they await her comming to rebel against the Masters who humiliated her. From there she will increase her strenght

 

Finally she will have Aegon, the Golden Company and Dorne at her side when she arrives in Westeros. All them with Unsullied and the "Horsemen" are more then enough to conquer Westeros. Also she will have 2 Dragons at least with her, if we consider the horn. It does nto matter if the Tyrion gets a Dragon or not; he is there for her cause.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On June 7, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Durran Durrandon said:

“Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade.”

So the word amethyst is not just connected to Daenerys but to a line of rulers who appear to be related to Daenerys, her ancestors. Now look at the description of the Gemstone Emperors in the Yi Ti myth:

Dominion then passed to [The God-on-Earth’s] eldest son, the Pearl Emperor, who ruled for a thousand years. Power then passed to the Jade Emperor, the Tourmaline Emperor, the Onyx Emperor, the Topaz Emperor, and the Opal Emperor. Each reigning for a shorter and more troubled time than the previous emperor, for wild men and beasts pressed the borders of the Empire, lesser kings grew proud and rebellious, and the common people gave themselves to sin. When the daughter of the Opal Emperor ascended to power as the Amethyst Empress, her envious brother cast her down and proclaimed himself the Bloodstone Emperor  . . . it was the Blood Betrayal, as his usurpation is named, that ushered in the age of darkness called the Long Night.”  (TWOIAF 712)

Great OP and very observant of you. 

 

On June 7, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Durran Durrandon said:

her envious brother cast her down and proclaimed himself the Bloodstone Emperor  . . . it was the Blood Betrayal, as his usurpation is named, that ushered in the age of darkness called the Long Night.”  (TOIAF 712)

 

On June 7, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Durran Durrandon said:

I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the black stone is real and that Euron has it. I am basing this on the facts that he really has a dragon binding horn and he really has Valyrian steel armor, but we knew Valyria was real.

So basically, you are assuming that once he casts down Dany and the gods, he will have people worshipping the black stone, which will ultimately usher in the Long Night? That would make him the agent of the Other, the one Mel keeps wondering about. 

I am so excited about Euron, I think he will be the best psychotic villain we have had in this series, really looking forward to more of him in TWoW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/12/2016 at 11:27 AM, Aryya Stark said:

Great OP and very observant of you. 

 

 

So basically, you are assuming that once he casts down Dany and the gods, he will have people worshipping the black stone, which will ultimately usher in the Long Night? That would make him the agent of the Other, the one Mel keeps wondering about. 

I am so excited about Euron, I think he will be the best psychotic villain we have had in this series, really looking forward to more of him in TWoW.

I didn't realize the connection between stones and eyes.

But it won't be exactly the same as prophecy. 

By "casting down" - it could be stealing one or two of her dragons and leaving her behind as he takes power - humbling her

"worshipping black stone" - can be related to Oldtown - the Hightower whose base is made of black stone. Also probably related to Sam's Horn which he would blow thus destroying the Wall, letting the Others to go through and thus ushering the Long Night.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Masha said:

I didn't realize the connection between stones and eyes.

But it won't be exactly the same as prophecy. 

By "casting down" - it could be stealing one or two of her dragons and leaving her behind as he takes power - humbling her

This could be a possibility. Either way he is going to be a terrible foe to reckon with.

 

19 minutes ago, Masha said:

"worshipping black stone" - can be related to Oldtown - the Hightower whose base is made of black stone. Also probably related to Sam's Horn which he would blow thus destroying the Wall, letting the Others to go through and thus ushering the Long Night.

Now this is interesting. I hadn't realized that the Hightower's base was made of black stone. I know Bran the Builder is credited with building it, so some sort of magic must be weaved into its walls. 

I am also looking forward to seeing Sam's horn come into play and finding out if it is really Joramun's horn or not. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/12/2016 at 11:27 AM, Aryya Stark said:
  On 6/7/2016 at 2:12 PM, Durran Durrandon said:

her envious brother cast her down and proclaimed himself the Bloodstone Emperor  . . . it was the Blood Betrayal, as his usurpation is named, that ushered in the age of darkness called the Long Night.”  (TOIAF 712)

I like your idea that the mythological fable of the Bloodstone Emperor and the Amethyst Empress is being used by GRRM as an allusion to Euron's quest for dominion over Westeros.  Euron seems quite aware of the ancient Eastern mythology and has the perfect combination of megalomania and fearlessness to carry out the steps necessary in his mind to fulfill the prophetic quest of the Bloodstone Emperor reborn. He has acquired control over magical spellbinding horns, he has Valyrian armor stolen from the smoking ruins of Valyria, he has high priests from various religions as sacrificial captives, he has an understanding of Blood Magic acquired over years of trading and studying in Asshai. He surely knows of the significance behind the oily black stone and its value in summoning magic, from the necromancy he studied in Asshai.  Perhaps his own Blood Betrayal, the slaying of Daenerys, in his mind the reincarnated Amethyst Empress, is the final step in his ascendancy, the magical final act before he can claim his throne.

"Clad head to heel in scale as dark as onyx, he sat upon a mound of blackened skulls as dwarfs capered round his feet and a forest burned behind him." (The Winds of Winter - Aeron I)

The blackened skulls, dwarfs capering and forest burning may be an allusion to the last children of the forest being driven out from their burning homelands and bound into his service as agents of old magic or it could be a more metaphorical allusion to his destructive corruption of old world magic to meet his own desires for conquest.

"Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed…" (The Winds of Winter - Aeron I)

The long shadow in woman's form seems eerily akin to both the shadow demons summoned by shadowbinders of Asshai and to the female Other in the tale of the Night's King, who's consummation with man led to another period of darkness and terror.  Perhaps this shadow in woman's form is an allusion to the Great Other and may be foretelling Euron's purpose in seeking to bind himself to the Others through blood magic in his lust for power. The dwarves "capering naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing each other" rather than being actual human dwarves suffering for his amusement, may again signify Children of the Forest and their blood magic rituals being twisted and reshaped, desecrated to serve his purposes, linking him to this agent of shadow and pale fire in a mockery of the power of the Old Gods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Euron wants from Dany the same thing all powerful men in the story want from her - her dragons and the power that derives from them. They don't want her for her sparkling personality, don't gives two-shits about her self appointed titles and claims, and since she's barren she has zero appeal as a wife. She'll make a good concubine though.

In his speech to the Ironborn he makes it clear that he wants dragons and the Iron throne - that is number 1a and number 1b.

Afterwards he tasks Vic with the mission if bringing his targaeryn bride to him and gives him the dragonhorn, knowing that Vic will want to betray him and try to take Dany for himself. This works out perfectly for Euron - it let's Vic think he has the upper hand, and it makes him a willing patsy. Vic will die in the mission, Dany isn't even in Meereen (which I believe Euron knows), and when the horn is blown a dragon or two will come to Euron. A win-win-win for Euron.

With at least one of Dany's dragons, Euron will have a powerful weapon in his hands to do his will beside his true queen - the one in the vision which people spec to be Quaithe (and I would agree).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/12/2016 at 8:27 AM, Aryya Stark said:

Great OP and very observant of you. 

 

 

So basically, you are assuming that once he casts down Dany and the gods, he will have people worshipping the black stone, which will ultimately usher in the Long Night? That would make him the agent of the Other, the one Mel keeps wondering about. 

I am so excited about Euron, I think he will be the best psychotic villain we have had in this series, really looking forward to more of him in TWoW.

If Euron pulls the black stone out of his bag at some point. I am going to be pretty smug and insufferable for a while, because I have been making this allusion between Euron and the BSE for a while. I don't know if it will play out that overtly. We'll see.

I'm not so sure that he will be revealed to be the Great Other. The Long Night is already coming, so if Euron actually acquired the black stone and caused this some how, it has already happened, there isn't anything he has to do to cause the Long Night. I'm don't think he is the Great Other or that there even is a Great Other. He is seeking to become godlike so, in a sense yeah, he is seeking to become something and that could be the Great Other Mel sees. However, I think he is playing with fire and just as likely to burn himself as ascend to godhood. Think of the Nazis opening up the Ark at the end of Raiders, or any bad horror movie moment were some devote unleashes some great evil and finds out that great evil doesn't reward loyalty. We'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/14/2016 at 7:36 AM, Masha said:

I didn't realize the connection between stones and eyes.

But it won't be exactly the same as prophecy. 

By "casting down" - it could be stealing one or two of her dragons and leaving her behind as he takes power - humbling her

"worshipping black stone" - can be related to Oldtown - the Hightower whose base is made of black stone. Also probably related to Sam's Horn which he would blow thus destroying the Wall, letting the Others to go through and thus ushering the Long Night.

 

I don't trust the Hightowers, not one bit. So, yeah I agree. It could be the original black stone, or the biggest chunk of it. The oily stone is all over the place in The World of Ice and Fire.

The Hightowers:

  • Appear to possibly have been in Westeros before the "First" Men arrived, like the Daynes.I don't want to take the Garth Greenhand's myth to literally, bu the myth has the Hightowers as his decedents through Maris the Maid who married Uthor of the Hight Twoer, who appears to be there already. (Like the wives of Cain and Abel.)
  • The Hightowers do not have many physical descriptions written about them, Except for Lynese Hightower who according to Jorah looked like Daenerys with platinum blonde hair and Alerie Hightower, who has silver hair at age 37 to 43. So They may have Targish looks.
  • They have a magically tall tower that sits on top of a giant oily stone, so . . . .
  • They may have orchestrated the Dance of Dragons.
  • They entirely hijacked the Faith of the Seven building the Starry Sept out of Black Marble stone in Oldtown.
  • They founded the Citadel.

That is where Euron appears to be headed right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×