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Manderly?


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59 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

If anything the last episode showed that the North DOES remember, unfortunately that includes the negative aspects as well.

Starting to wonder if that is exactly what "the north remembers" meant in the description.  IE the north remembers Robbs failed war.

 


With that said, I honestly do find it hard to believe any house would support the Bolton (especially now that Roose is gone).  They actively Flay their own bannermen.  Yes this may have instilled obedience, but it certainly does not make them Loyal.  I get that house Glover is not willign to help (hey he just got his castle back with the boltons help and has no time to go back to war).  But there are so many other Northern houses, it makes no sense none are willing to help.

Are they honestly all happy having a Bolton as their Leige lord?  I doubt it.  

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2 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

Starting to wonder if that is exactly what "the north remembers" meant in the description.  IE the north remembers Robbs failed war.

 


With that said, I honestly do find it hard to believe any house would support the Bolton (especially now that Roose is gone).  They actively Flay their own bannermen.  Yes this may have instilled obedience, but it certainly does not make them Loyal.  I get that house Glover is not willign to help (hey he just got his castle back with the boltons help and has no time to go back to war).  But there are so many other Northern houses, it makes no sense none are willing to help.

Are they honestly all happy having a Bolton as their Leige lord?  I doubt it.  

I just assume 90% of them are still licking their wounds from the failed Robb war.  It's kind of hard to rally what remaining troops you have to go fight for yet *another* war after you just got your butt kicked in the previous one.  Morality must be at an all-time low right now in the North.

I'm sure nobody likes Ramsey running things, but what can they do?  They feel defeated and bitter over what Robb did.  That's my assumption on why they are turning their back on Jon.

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8 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

I still hold out hope that HR will eventually show up somehow, some way, considering Meera is still alive.  They could be saving HR for Brans storyline, considering it's the most logical place for Meera to run to, and also the safest place for an incapacitated Bran to hang out.  That would be my guess why he's been excluded from the Bastard Battle.

That seems like a likely way for him to be introduced into the storyline outside of the flashbacks.

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4 hours ago, Jack.Stark said:

He will be in episode 10 , post battle .

Even i think so.. Lobbying for Jon along with Sassy Little Lyanna Mormont..!!

I think instead of "Mummers farce is almost over..", we will get "..We swore that we will always be their men, Stark Men" speech from him; to convince other houses!

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1 minute ago, SevasTra82 said:

I just assume 90% of them are still licking their wounds from the failed Robb war.  It's kind of hard to rally what remaining troops you have to go fight for yet *another* war after you just got your butt kicked in the previous one.  Morality must be at an all-time low right now in the North.

I'm sure nobody likes Ramsey running things, but what can they do?  They feel defeated and bitter over what Robb did.  That's my assumption on why they are turning their back on Jon.

It makes for a hollow victory then, doesn't it?  

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4 hours ago, SevasTra82 said:

I'll be more shocked if they cut out Howland Reed.  I mean, come on...Eddard Starks biggest supporter and closest friend...and Jon doesn't even at the very least send a raven to him?  WTF?

Howland Reed is the biggest mystery after TOJ promise by Ned.. The most important piece of puzzle & not even appeared even once!! (not counting Bran's vision in the show)

P.S. - Well, except Rheagar & Lyanna, the most important characters who were killed BEFORE the story even began!! That's GRRM for you!!

 

 

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I always had this theory/hope that Jon would send Davos to White Harbour where he'd be captured by the Manderlys and taken to Winterfell as a show of their loyalty but with a secret mission to save Rickon. Then during the Battle, the Manderlys who are allowed into Winterfell then turn on the Boltons (North Remembers) and with the Vale/Tully knights appearing the whole thing becomes a Bolton massacre. I'm a bit disappointed it's gotten this far without Manderly as I don't think there is now room to pull that kind of thing off (but here's hoping).

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6 minutes ago, Johan Persson said:

I always had this theory/hope that Jon would send Davos to White Harbour where he'd be captured by the Manderlys and taken to Winterfell as a show of their loyalty but with a secret mission to save Rickon. Then during the Battle, the Manderlys who are allowed into Winterfell then turn on the Boltons (North Remembers) and with the Vale/Tully knights appearing the whole thing becomes a Bolton massacre. I'm a bit disappointed it's gotten this far without Manderly as I don't think there is now room to pull that kind of thing off (but here's hoping).

That would have been pretty good, a way to keep the gist of Book Manderly within the confines of the show story...but I agree, there is no time now for something like that, it feels to me that there is not much point to Manderly finally appearing so late in the game.

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The Manderlys have to show up at some point.  They have been name dropped far too many times to not be there.  If the Knights of the vale are the army that saves Jon/Sansa that will be rather cheesy.  

 

We know that there is a fat northern lord that will show up at some point.  The question is when.  We also know there is a northern lord who changes sides.  Is that the umbers siding with Ramsay, or is that them changing during the battle?  

 

It would be pretty pathetic if Jon attacks, gets almost destroyed, KoTV show up, Umbers change sides and the battle is over.  The umbers should then be killed on the spot (unless it was all a plan to begin with, which I dont think it is).

 

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1 hour ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Exactly.  Glover's resentment was accurate and believable. 

In the books, at least the Karstarks, Ryswells, and Dustins all seem to feel the same. 

As they should. As for the book versions of the loyal houses, they had some reason to forgive Robb for his mistakes...Robb was several years younger and the Umbers, Manderlies and Glovers understood that it was too much pressure for a kid.

This older Robb has no such excuse.

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1 hour ago, SevasTra82 said:

Even so, they could have found a way to get word to HR.  A letter, a messenger, something.  Greywater Watch is indeed near impossible to find, but I am sure they could find a way to get word to HR (who I'm sure is already aware of the Winterfell fiasco).  It just seems strange to me that the show wouldn't even make any sort of reference or attempt to reach HR.  They didn't even mention him when they were looking at the Northern map 2 episodes ago when discussing possible allies.

I think we'll learn about the Manderlys next episode, and very well could be Jons final stop on his tour around The North.

Why even bother?  They hold no army, even in the TV storyline thanks to Meera's explanation.  So if "62" was a shock, what's it going to do to their own morale when "1" shows up, plus maybe anyone that happens to float by on their lily pad on his way out?

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3 hours ago, mattnj81 said:

Is Mel not with them? In the scene where they were riding out of Castle Black she was on a horse leaving with them.

She was out walking Ghost so he could make water out in the woods rather than in some Lord's court.

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12 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

As they should. As for the book versions of the loyal houses, they had some reason to forgive Robb for his mistakes...Robb was several years younger and the Umbers, Manderlies and Glovers understood that it was too much pressure for a kid.

This older Robb has no such excuse.

It's odd, that Glover is more resentful of the dead Robb Stark than he is of the Bolton family, which orchestrated the Red Wedding that killed the bulk of Robb Stark's army.

But then, kinslaying on the show is no big deal, and the show seems to have also jettisoned the idea that breaking guest right is a big taboo since nobody in the North recalls that either.  LOL.

I'm not sure why Glover doesn't throw them all in his dungeon.

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51 minutes ago, Xarkar said:

Starting to wonder if that is exactly what "the north remembers" meant in the description.  IE the north remembers Robbs failed war.

 


With that said, I honestly do find it hard to believe any house would support the Bolton (especially now that Roose is gone).  They actively Flay their own bannermen.  Yes this may have instilled obedience, but it certainly does not make them Loyal.  I get that house Glover is not willign to help (hey he just got his castle back with the boltons help and has no time to go back to war).  But there are so many other Northern houses, it makes no sense none are willing to help.

Are they honestly all happy having a Bolton as their Leige lord?  I doubt it.  

Rightly said.. And considering that the Roose Bolton was responsible for killings of 90% heads of the houses + King in the North!!

That anger against Robb is understandable; but to simply accept Boltons as the Lords of Winterfell??

In the books however The Manderlays & Glovers are not saying about Robb's Will/Jon as a King; but they are clearly playing something to restore a Stark at Winterfell..!! And clearly planning to Fcuk the Boltons!!

Starks have been ruling for last 7000 years for Old Gods' sake!!!

"..A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf's Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore  beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!" - Wylla Manderly

When you read this you realise the importance of Stark in the North.. Why are they not fighting for Rickon; if not Jon+Sansa??

He is not a Snow, he is a true son of Eddard Stark & is their liege lord!! Where is Wyman & his granddaughter Wylla Manderly???

I don't understand why D&D are they screwing up the North storyline..!!!

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We know who's going to come save the Stark army from defeat.

Spoiler ahead.

Spoiler

http://screenrant.com/game-thrones-sansa-letter-littlefinger/

Someone transcribed the letter Sansa sent last episode: it was sent to Littlefinger, asking him to bring his army to Winterfell.

I'm 99% sure the battle will start, the Boltons will start beating the Stark army, then the Aryn army will hit them in the flank or rear and win the day for Sansa.

 

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4 hours ago, SevasTra82 said:

Even so, they could have found a way to get word to HR.  A letter, a messenger, something.  Greywater Watch is indeed near impossible to find, but I am sure they could find a way to get word to HR (who I'm sure is already aware of the Winterfell fiasco).  It just seems strange to me that the show wouldn't even make any sort of reference or attempt to reach HR.  They didn't even mention him when they were looking at the Northern map 2 episodes ago when discussing possible allies.

I think we'll learn about the Manderlys next episode, and very well could be Jons final stop on his tour around The North.

To get a messenger there he would need to travel past both Winterfel and Moat Calin. 

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3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

That would have been pretty good, a way to keep the gist of Book Manderly within the confines of the show story...but I agree, there is no time now for something like that, it feels to me that there is not much point to Manderly finally appearing so late in the game.

I think the casting call for the overweight Northern Lord in his 60s included a description along the lines of "he gives a big speech in which he changes allegiance". So I wouldn't rule it out. 

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Jon and Sansa have no time to go to White Harbor, they are too close to Winterfell. Only Little Finger knows hot to teleport himself all over Westeros.

Manderly's got the letter... he won't answer because ravens might get in the wrong hands. However his army might appear just before or during the battle.

Every major battle in the series has been won thanks to the unexpected arrival of an army: Blackwater--> Tyrell and Castle Black--> Stannis.  

The arrival of the Vale army has been pretty much called for and won't be a surprise for the viewer. Maybe the arrival of Manderly or a turncoat from the Umbers could be the tipping point for the battle.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

It's odd, that Glover is more resentful of the dead Robb Stark than he is of the Bolton family, which orchestrated the Red Wedding that killed the bulk of Robb Stark's army.

But then, kinslaying on the show is no big deal, and the show seems to have also jettisoned the idea that breaking guest right is a big taboo since nobody in the North recalls that either.  LOL.

I'm not sure why Glover doesn't throw them all in his dungeon.

Its true that the Boltons and Freys performed the Red Wedding (and quite frankly Jon, Sansa and Davos should have reminded him of this), but Robb was the guy who didnt stick to his vows, enraging the Freys, he barely left any men in the North to enforce justice, protect the people and hold Winterfell and he cut off Karstark's head, further depleting the Northern forces.

Besides winning battles (which is only part of being a commander), Robb severily fucked up.

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