Penny Dreadful: Think of me only when you dance [spoilers through season 3]

[Cas Stark]

I've had a bad feeling it might not get renewed.  Although I just checked the audience figures and it's done an okay job of gaining some ground, though still a tiny number, which is so sad.  It's such a great show, I wish Showtime at least spent some time trying to get the critics on board in a larger way.

I think it's okay for people to disagree on Lilly.  I feel that I am supposed to sympathize with her 'war' and her goals to help the downtrodden, but I don't see that 1+1=2, her goal is fine, and it makes sense w/her background, but her tactics are senseless...hacking off random pimps/thiefs/etc. hands is not doing anything for anyone. I'm with Dorian on this one, their grand vision of darkness is a lot of nickle and dime violence getting nowhere.  And something about Piper bothers me, I can't say what.  

We kind of always knew Vanessa was damned, I hope they do something more interesting than have her kill Dracula.

When are we getting Hyde for fucks sake?!?!??!?!?! 

I thought the Apache's vision/exchange with V was excellent.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

I'm just really disappointed with Lily's arc.  There was so much promise after some amazing scenes last season.  What we got was terrible pacing, a poorly conceived evil plan, and lots of dancing.  It might have helped if there was any indication that London men are living in terror of women hacking off hands, but there's nothing.  Baskets full of hands should make some sort of impression on the town.  The way they've written it, it seems more like they went to morgues and cut the hands off corpses, which isn't scary or dark at all.  It's boring.  

It's bad when this arc has made me nearly sympathize with Frankenstein, and also cheer him on.  He's guilty of the most monstrous acts on this show, he makes my stomach turn, he's horrifying.  What he plans to do should be terrifying me as a viewer.  But I'm just sort of sitting there thinking, "get on with it already, and maybe zap the desire to dance out of her brain while you're at it."

I am/was eager to finally get the Ethan/Brona meet up, but it will probably suck because she won't be who she was and she likely won't even remember.  

[Knight of Ashes]

2 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I am/was eager to finally get the Ethan/Brona meet up, but it will probably suck because she won't be who she was and she likely won't even remember.  

I think Lily mentioned Ethan in passing during a conversation she was having with whatsername, the first recruit.  It was along the lines of Wolfie being the exception to the rule of men being, *ahem*,  beasts and all that.

 

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I'm just really disappointed with Lily's arc.  There was so much promise after some amazing scenes last season.  What we got was terrible pacing, a poorly conceived evil plan, and lots of dancing.  It might have helped if there was any indication that London men are living in terror of women hacking off hands, but there's nothing.  Baskets full of hands should make some sort of impression on the town.  The way they've written it, it seems more like they went to morgues and cut the hands off corpses, which isn't scary or dark at all.  It's boring.  

It's bad when this arc has made me nearly sympathize with Frankenstein, and also cheer him on.  He's guilty of the most monstrous acts on this show, he makes my stomach turn, he's horrifying.  What he plans to do should be terrifying me as a viewer.  But I'm just sort of sitting there thinking, "get on with it already, and maybe zap the desire to dance out of her brain while you're at it."

I am/was eager to finally get the Ethan/Brona meet up, but it will probably suck because she won't be who she was and she likely won't even remember.  

She definitely remembers, she said as much in her conversation with Justine at the start of this season. He is the American who was not like other men. And, one thing I will say before going into detail about the episode, the police should now have much more to concern them with the whole end of days thing and he apocalypse and what not. Lily's revolution was rather unfortunately timed (because I don't see Lily's army faring well against the night creatures...). 

Just had another thought too. What you say about Lily's grand speeches last season...isn't that Dorian's issue too? They had such grand ideas together... But ere was too much of Brona in Lily, too much empathy for these women. She is truly passionate about helping them "rise up" and this, for her, trumps any plans for personal elevation and mastery such as Dorian wants. So perhaps it's intentional? I don't know, just an idea that occurred

This was probably my favourite episode of the show in any season actually. I loved everything about it, beautifully written, wonderful camera work, sublime score to accompany every scene, and, as goes without saying in this show, outstanding acting from the cast. From the very first scene in the graveyard I was captivated. Interestingly, as I have seen pointed out elsewhere, Brona's daughter apparently died the same year the first episode of this show is supposed to have taken place. Spoiler tagging for length, as usual. Will break down by character rather than scene

 

 

Lily and Dorian: So, I've not hated this story, but I have been lukewarm to it. Just moving too slow and involved far too much dancing and not a lot else. But this episode, I absolutely adored their scenes, and thought it was probably the best performances Piper and Carney have ever given (especially Dorian's intimidation of Justine...not to mention his look at that dinner table). Lily's "rise up" speech really gripped me, and despite knowing that she is way too extreme...I couldn't help but want to cheer along with the prostitutes. Really great stuff. And Dorian's face when she took his glass...

Justine really doesn't know what she is getting into with Dorian. As far as I can tell she doesn't even know he is immortal. I suspect that will be her undoing. She decides to strike when he returns to the mansions sans Lily, and he just brushes off her mutilation of him with a casual "Lol, those your claws, kitten?" 

I did find his talk with Lily very interesting though, because we get a sense of just how old this version of Dorian Gray is. Curious.

Frankenstein continues to be the most odious and disgusting piece of shit on this show and I really hope that either Jekyll goes full Hyde after Victor patronises him again, or Lily breaks her chains and throttles him. Or maybe both. I don't care, but I do hope he dies now. If Ethan does find him next season (and possibly Lily) it will be...interesting, to say the least.

 

Dr. Seward: brief scene, but love Patti LuPone so no complaints. I guess she will face off with Renfield next week. As for the here personalities, well I suppose at is Vanessa, Dracula, and Lucifer, right? I mean, the voice playing on the cylinder seemed like the Lucifer doll from last season. 

 

Ethan, Kaetenay, Malcom: Very nice scenes with them, though they seem to have been able to leave A,metrics a bit too easily considering the trail of blood they have left in their wake. But, they need to get back to London so I'm not too bother. Wes Studi was great in this episode, especially his scene with Vanessa. But, I'm sorry, nobody calls her a "great fertile bitch of evil" and gets away with it! Heh, but, it is kind of true (maybe a bit less of the bitch talk though...) 

John Clare:  oh my little heart. I'm so glad he has finally got to a happy place. And I'm glad he hasn't exactly lied to Marjorie either (he didn't say exactly what he had done, but he admitted and showed remorse for having done "cruel things" (like, Van Helsing, and so on). Admitting he full extent should come in time though. Also, I loved little Jack's line and shall use it every opportunity I get when someone asks me how I am. "Tolerable. I had half that orange."  

Vanessa: First, what a heavy sleeper. Or maybe she thought Sweet was kissing her neck... Eva Green totally sold the idea of Canessa truly loving Sweet though, win that expression.

Next, her scene with John Clare. Beautiful, and gorgeously written, 'The man I knew deserved to be loved.' 'And now?' 'No less.' Part of me wonders how she would react if she knew what Frankenstein had done though. 

Her scenes with Cat were also very good, and once again I enjoyed Perdita Weeks' addition to the show. Kind of clever the way the made Vanessa get in the know about Dracula too.

Her final scene with Dracula was wonderful. Unlike Ethan and Hecate, who felt a bit rushed, I really bought into Dracula's seduction of Vanessa. He played on her fears, and her hates, her worries, the pains from her past. The stakes are raised for this finale, and it shall be interesting to see how it all concludes. I have faith in John Logan though, I think he should craft a satisfying ending

[Dr. Pepper]

2 minutes ago, Knight of Ashes said:

I think Lily mentioned Ethan in passing during a conversation she was having with whatsername, the first recruit.  It was along the lines of Wolfie being the exception to the rule of men being, *ahem*,  beasts and all that.

 

 

1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said:

She definitely remembers, she said as much in her conversation with Justine at the start of this season. He is the American who was not like other men.

Only she's now chained up in Jekyll and Frankenstein's laboratory where Victor plans to perform the torture procedure on her.  The whole intent of the procedure is to change who Lily/Brona is.  Symptoms from their test subject has already resulted in memory loss.  That's why I say it's likely she won't remember, though this assumes Ethan gets there after the procedure or that Lily is unable to break free before the procedure.  

[HexMachina]

Just now, Dr. Pepper said:

 

Only she's now chained up in Jekyll and Frankenstein's laboratory where Victor plans to perform the torture procedure on her.  The whole intent of the procedure is to change who Lily/Brona is.  Symptoms from their test subject has already resulted in memory loss.  That's why I say it's likely she won't remember, though this assumes Ethan gets there after the procedure or that Lily is unable to break free before the procedure.  

Ah, I see what you mean now. I was assuming before the procedure. What you said makes sense now. (I added a bit more on your points about Lily, which probably went through as you were replying, if you are interested)

[Dr. Pepper]

I'm always glad when you finally post your long commentary, Helena, as it helps me better appreciate some of the scenes and plots.  I don't have much background in horror lit and really only started watching this show because several posters here kept recommending it.  I enjoy it, but I don't get a lot of it sometimes so your posts are really helpful.

[HexMachina]

You actually read them? Well colour me flattered!  I only referred back to it because there was one point I thought of specifically in response to your post

[GallowKnight]

Renfeld crawling across the floor is the comedic highlight of this season. Dorian's pouty-face is a close second.

Otherwise the episode was mostly ok. I still don't care about Liliy or her plans and I never really liked the whole cure bit and had hoped for something better for Frankenstien and Jekyll to do. Dorian was pretty good though.

Seeing Clare get some happiness was nice though, even if it probably won't last very long. Vanessa and Kaetenay was the highlight, Great fertile bitch of evil is a pretty great line and insult. I hope Wes Studi sticks around for a possible fourth season, but I have the feeling Kaetenay will die.

[Joan Jett]

On June 14, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Dr. Pepper said:

I am/was eager to finally get the Ethan/Brona meet up, but it will probably suck because she won't be who she was and she likely won't even remember.  

Same!!! I'm only on Ep 2 of Season 3, but I hope they see each other again soon! I don't want a romance between them now, since the Vanessa/Ethan thing is still going on, but I'd really like to see Ethan's reaction to "Lily".

[Joan Jett]

I'm watching Episode 7 now and Lol at Lily completely taking over Dorian's place. And her little radfem army. 

Still feeling annoyed at Victor, tbh. I never liked him, he's just whiny and mean. 

Edit: Finished the episode and when Victor said he was making Lily into a "proper woman" I was seething at my TV. I can't wait for his death. 

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, Joan Jett said:

I'm watching Episode 7 now and Lol at Lily completely taking over Dorian's place. And her little radfem army. 

Still feeling annoyed at Victor, tbh. I never liked him, he's just whiny and mean. 

Edit: Finished the episode and when Victor said he was making Lily into a "proper woman" I was seething at my TV. I can't wait for his death. 

Absolutely. It's quite interesting as an story really, we know what Lily is doing isn't right, but at the same time these men before her are so despicable I can't help but want her to succeed. And there is something chilling about having Lily chained up, considering the life she has had, and the very injustices she is fighting against. 

The more I think about it though the more I liked (as an entertaining character I mean) Dorian last episode. It was the first time we really got a sense of his dark side since Angelique, and this time was much more sinister. Reeve Carney did a great job in that scene with Jessica Barden, with the lowered tone and facial expressions. And then his final scenes in Bedlam showed his total lack of empathy. This chained woman was, as lately as a few hours prior, supposed to be his equal, his love. And in this scene he is laughing at her bondage. 

Anyway, while I'm here, my predictions for the finale (spoiler tagged because they are partly based on various promos and pics)

 

 

Ethan Malcom and Kaetenay return to foggy London. Most people are avoiding outdoors, and those that do go out are attacked by the vampires. 

Catriona goes to see if Vanessa is at the mansion. She's not there. Ethan and co. Arrive roughly the same time. Vampires attack.

Malcom is bitten by a vampire and they cauterise the wound. They decide to look for Frankenstein for help for Malcom's wound, and also to save Vanessa.

Seward confronts Renfield and kills him.

Lily is out cold after the serum is injected. Dorian leaves and returns to his home, confronts Justine and, after being stabbed by her, kills her. 

Victor and Lily have a heart to heart. She reveals she is not changed though.

Vanessa chooses neither Ethan nor Dracula, but finds her Faith again and rejects fully embracing the dark. She kills Dracula.

At some point Malcom dies. I think he is in the black coffin from the official trailer

[Joan Jett]

32 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Absolutely. It's quite interesting as an story really, we know what Lily is doing isn't right, but at the same time these men before her are so despicable I can't help but want her to succeed. And there is something chilling about having Lily chained up, considering the life she has had, and the very injustices she is fighting against. 

The more I think about it though the more I liked (as an entertaining character I mean) Dorian last episode. It was the first time we really got a sense of his dark side since Angelique, and this time was much more sinister. Reeve Carney did a great job in that scene with Jessica Barden, with the lowered tone and facial expressions. And then his final scenes in Bedlam showed his total lack of empathy. This chained woman was, as lately as a few hours prior, supposed to be his equal, his love. And in this scene he is laughing at her bondage. 

Anyway, while I'm here, my predictions for the finale (spoiler tagged because they are partly based on various promos and pics)

  Hide contents

 

Ethan Malcom and Kaetenay return to foggy London. Most people are avoiding outdoors, and those that do go out are attacked by the vampires. 

Catriona goes to see if Vanessa is at the mansion. She's not there. Ethan and co. Arrive roughly the same time. Vampires attack.

Malcom is bitten by a vampire and they cauterise the wound. They decide to look for Frankenstein for help for Malcom's wound, and also to save Vanessa.

Seward confronts Renfield and kills him.

Lily is out cold after the serum is injected. Dorian leaves and returns to his home, confronts Justine and, after being stabbed by her, kills her. 

Victor and Lily have a heart to heart. She reveals she is not changed though.

Vanessa chooses neither Ethan nor Dracula, but finds her Faith again and rejects fully embracing the dark. She kills Dracula.

At some point Malcom dies. I think he is in the black coffin from the official trailer

Yeah, I'm the same, conflicted. Not a fan of Lily's female "mastery" plan, but also totally enraged by the men kidnapping her to make her subservient. 

What do you think is going to happen with Jekyll/Hyde? How many episodes do we have left anyway? Maybe he'll show up next season. 

[HexMachina]

18 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

Yeah, I'm the same, conflicted. Not a fan of Lily's female "mastery" plan, but also totally enraged by the men kidnapping her to make her subservient. 

What do you think is going to happen with Jekyll/Hyde? How many episodes do we have left anyway? Maybe he'll show up next season. 

Two episodes left, but they are both airing this week, back-to-back (tomorrow, if you are US, Tuesday for the UK).

I'm hoping Jekyll gets a chance to go full Hyde because in the moments this season where the madness and anger begins to creep in, Shazad Latif has been spectacular. Maybe he Hydes out as they are about to inject Lily and because of that the procedure fails. Happy for either him or Lily to kill Victor, quite honestly. Though it should be interesting if Ethan gets a chance to confront Frankenstein over what he has done. I feel like one of the "family" should learn the truth and have a chance to confront him on it. 

We don't actually have any news that there will be another season yet *sob* 

Not really sure what the Creature will do either. From the season 3 trailer we can deduce

 

that he has sex with someone, and we can now probably safely say that is Marjorie.

so that will probably happen next episode. But what else? Will he seek Victor for the medicine for his son? Will his son die? Will they get attacked by the Night Creatures? Will he meet Lily? 

Any chance of me waiting until Tuesday to find out what happens are non-existent right now

[Budgie]

Long time lurker I had to post in this thread as I  started watching Penny Dreadful recently and I am all caught up ( a lot of late nights!).  The Penny Dreadful threads have been very insightful.

I can't wait for the finale and hope the show gets renewed again.

[Cas Stark]

I agree on Reeve Carney, it was nice to see more depth and darkness in Dorian, that was a great scene, but since I'm supposed to covertly support Lily, I suspect that means he's a goner.

I also have to say this to me has been a much weaker season than the first two, though I still love the show, the challenge they set for themselves having everyone scatter has made the story less compelling and a bit disjointed.

We will have to get Hyde sooner or later....

[Theda Baratheon]

"You want to play with me, kitten? Well show me your claws"

More scary evil Dorian please because this was awesome 

[RedEyedGhost]

20 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

"You want to play with me, kitten? Well show me your claws"

More scary evil Dorian please because this was awesome 

 

Dorian has been my least favorite part of the show, but that was awesome.

 

20 hours ago, Triskan said:

Chiming in to say that I've been pretty disappointed by this season.  The plots have just not been that compelling.  I still love the notion of this show and really like all of the actors and actresses.  Everyone is great and Eva Green continues to be unreal.  But this is easily my least favortie season so far.   I still hope it gets continued, but the story-telling in this season is weak, I'm sorry to say. 

I was really worried about this season coming in to it because of the characters going off in such separate directions, and while it's definitely not as good as last season it has been a lot better than I thought it would be.

[Cas Stark]

It may make me a bad person, but I kind of want Dorian to kill her now--Justine--she's turned into a punk.

Yes, I'm on board with more evil Dorian, now I don't want him to die.  But, we REALLY must get Hyde tonight.

Victor is an asshat. This guy seriously cannot learn Lesson #1, or he is so fucking damaged and selfish he doesn't care.

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, Theda Baratheon said:

"You want to play with me, kitten? Well show me your claws"

More scary evil Dorian please because this was awesome 

Yep. Because I am sad like that, I watch all of the extra bits Showtime puts out and Reeve Carney has said a few times in them that Dorian was embracing his darker side this season. Been waiting all season but loved this scene and definitely showed him much darker. 

Oh, and I would be shocked if Dorian didn't kill Justine. If hey want to show him really dark he'll probably kill the other prostitutes too. If I had to guess he poisons their drinks at the dinner table and they all die (except Justine, who he kills later). Dorian can safely drink himself because he's immortal. I don't think he dies here.

And yeah we really need Mr Hyde to come out and play. I'm really hoping there is another season just so we get more of him.

More Wes Studi and Eva Green on screen together too please...

I would like confirmation one way or the other about a renewal though