HexMachina Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 35 minutes ago, Castel said: She was in the episode for five minutes. I wonder if that was a quick way to wrap things up or Eva Green just couldn't come back for whatever they planned. The show could pick up tomorrow. It only feels final cause it actually was final. She might have been done so they wrote that pseudo-finale that wrapped up her arc but left stuff open and then...Showtime cancelled the show anyway. There Q&A linked in the previous page with Logan and the Showtime exec indicates otherwise actually. I tend to agree with Korvinus, that there was a three-season arc planned out for Vanessa, and the reason other plots feel unfinished is because they were much later additions that were added in by Logan as the story went on (for example, Dr Seward only came into existence because of discussions Logan and Patti LuPone had after her appearance as the cut-wife, about Vanessa's character needing someone to help her). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Logan says that, but quite honestly, I don't know if I believe him. Because why introduce Jeckyll and you never intended to give us Hyde? Why introduce the fencing woman at all if there was never a thought of a season 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 12 hours ago, Korvín-Corvinus said: You're probably right about some of the plots, but not Vanessa's. And that's what drove the whole show, in the end. Sure, I agree that the show revolved around Vanessa but there were multiple ways this final episode could have gone in order to continue the show. It's not like the only option here was Vanessa kisses Dracula, darkness stuff, Ethan kills Vanessa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unborn Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 17 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said: That seemed to really fizzle out. I wonder if they started filming the season not knowing whether or not it would end and so they began several arcs only to have to realize the show was canceled/ended and so had to wrap them up quickly which led to some of the arcs not being satisfying at all. Not sure I believe that it was simply a creative decision and that it was always planned this way. Too many things just seem like aborted plots. I guess I feel very meh about it all. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 6 hours ago, Cas Stark said: Logan says that, but quite honestly, I don't know if I believe him. Because why introduce Jeckyll and you never intended to give us Hyde? Why introduce the fencing woman at all if there was never a thought of a season 4? Yeah, this is basically my position. I simply do not buy that nothing went on here. I can buy that he had a plan but that this was ALL according to plan? No production issues? Nah. That or I've just completely misread the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowKnight Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Well, I wasn't really expecting that ending. It's really sad the show won't get another season. There was plenty of good stuff in both episodes. Lily's story about her child/speech was excellent and it was nice to see Frankenstein reclaim a shred of his humanity when he has been such a creepy dick all season. The scene where Dorian kills Justine was also great and served both characters well. The John Clare stuff was fantastic and sad as hell. Hartedegen was bad-ass. I really liked the hypnosis of Renfeld. And of course the Ethan and Vanessa scene was equally great and heartwrenching. However there was some pretty bad stuff too. The Hyde reveal was really bad and anticlimactic. The end fight got a bit silly because those were some sucky fucking vampires, when you get your ass handed to you by Victor Frankenstein you've got to hand in your monster-card. Plus it felt a bit weird how Dracula just disappeared after Vanessa died. The season overall has had some problems and I would say that it is definitely the weakest of the three. The big problem was that the characters were too spread out and too involved with their own subplots which resulted in a lack of focus and cohesion. Personally I though the whole Lily storyline was the biggest offender. After season 2 I was expecting something really grand and wicked to come out off that plot but instead we got something fairly unepic that just lingered until it fizzled out completely. As and addition to that I also think Reeve Carney did an excellent job as Dorian, and in light of the cancellation I'm disappointed that the never actually managed to do something more interesting with the character. Plus Jekyll ended up feeling kind of unnecessary, even if the actor was very good. While they ended Vanessa's story I still think that they left the other things up in the air a little bit too much and I would have liked some more closure on things. As a result I don't think it was a satisfying finale to the series and I think I will miss it quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Quork Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 It's been a good ride. I've enjoyed the gothic storylines, although this wrap-up seemed very truncated, with everything being brought to a close very quickly and some plots never really off the starting blocks (Lily and Jekyll). Strange choices. That said, the cast have been great and it's been great entertainment. For me, John Clare's storyline was the most heart breaking, and I'll happily listen to Rory Kinnear recite poetry to finish any series! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Well damn, another great show comes to an end. The last few episodes definitely felt rushed, and it seems everyone has covered how I felt about it (no Mr.Hyde, over the top end fight scene, etc). I was really hoping for some Lily-Dorian depravity after last season but it was all kind of a bust, although I liked how it was concluded. Season 2 was definitely the high point and this season was good but it was kind of inconsisent throughout. I'll still miss it a lot. Also, what was Vanessa's last words? I couldn't understand her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 12 minutes ago, Ramsay Blow said: Well damn, another great show comes to an end. The last few episodes definitely felt rushed, and it seems everyone has covered how I felt about it (no Mr.Hyde, over the top end fight scene, etc). I was really hoping for some Lily-Dorian depravity after last season but it was all kind of a bust, although I liked how it was concluded. Season 2 was definitely the high point and this season was good but it was kind of inconsisent throughout. I'll still miss it a lot. Also, what was Vanessa's last words? I couldn't understand her. "Ethan, I see our Lord."? Or did she say something after that. I enjoyed the finale, though it wasn't my favourite episode of the season. Episode 8 was better than episode 9 for me, for various reasons already cited. I stand by my earlier assessment that Vanessa's story was always going to be three seasons, but the addition of characters as the story grew in Logan's head meant some arcs felt a bit rushed, and shoehorning them in also rushed Vanessa's story a little bit. Don't have time to do my usual long write up, but in brief: the goods: The acting, music and visual effects, as per usual (fog shrouded Victorian London was wonderful. Patti LuPone and Sam Barnett as Seward and Renfield. One of the more complete and accomplished stories this season and I really enjoyed full scale ghoulish Renfield. Both actors very good in their respective roles. Dorian and Justine. While that story as a whole kind of didn't meet its full potential, I very much enjoyed the conclusion. I expected Dorian to kill all of the prostitutes, admittedly, but after his speech to Lily it makes more sense that he didn't. They are just idle distractions to him, and he really couldn't care less. But he respected and perhaps even admired Justine's spirit. While we are on the subject, I also really liked Dorian's end being left alone with his portraits, very fitting end that highlights the lonely life of the immortal that he talks about Lily's speech/daughter monologue. Billie Piper is very good at this sort of stuff. Her speech in 2x08, 3x07 and 3x08 were wonderful. The fit in the Murray mansion. Everything John Clare A lot of the action scenes, especially those in 3x08. Some in the final episode felt a bit silly and rushed though. Not so good: Lack of Vanessa in the final two episodes. I understand why they decided not to, but I would have preferred seeing some scenes of her acting all Mother of Evil As mentioned briefly already, the Dorian and Lily stuff didn't quite live up to its potential. No pay off for Jekyll. *crosses fingers for a spin-off Jekyll and Hyde series* Overall, a decent end to the series, which could have been made better. I think even one more episode might have made the difference if I'm totally honest I'm also devastated that I will never again be able to bother you all with my insipid rundown after an episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 "I see our lord" was what I couldn't understand for whatever reason. Thanks. We are all robbed of Mr. Lyle, too. I least we got to see a tiny bit of him this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 I rewatched it this morning on catchup, because Sky was being really jumpy last night. Few more stray points: The changed opening for episode 9 was really good, and I loved the haunting lullaby. The hypnosis scene was awesome. "Do you love me?" Damn. Vanessa's funeral was perfect and I freely admit to tearing up. Kaetenay's make-up was better than Ethan's IMO. But...how did Malcom not see that when they were journeying across America and the Atlantic? Where did he go during the full moons then? Not surprised Victor let Lily go. I mean, damn, I was choking up myself there. Timmothy Dalton really got his chance to shine these last couple of episodes. Yay! Still no season 2 soundtrack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowKnight Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Oh yeah, I'm calling bullshit on John Logan's claim that the whole three season thing was planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncalagonTheBlack Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Helen McCrory has got her own show,the upcoming political thriller ‘Fearless’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Ok I've finally managed to start catching up on Season 3. Have now watched the first 2 episodes, havent read any of this thread in case of spoilers, so I don't know what the general reaction to this season has been. However so far I'd say 3 was a vast improvement over 2. My thoughts on season 2 were that it had a few interesting ideas, the occasional good episode, but it took all the things I thought were problems with season 1 and doubled down on them. The plotting was ponderous or made very little sense. The main villain, while great, was a little silly especially her witchy daughters. There seemed to be a desperate attempt to create emotional connections between the characters that wasn't warranted or deserved. It was almost enough to stop me watching this season. But I came back because I still think it has all the potential to be a brilliant show, and has shown at times that it can be incredible (the standalone episode with Eva Green in season 1 maybe one of my fave things ever)Already in season 3 my interest has perked up: - A slightly more pulpy feel to some of the story elements, rather than just cheese or unearned melodrama that plagued season 2. Really enjoyed the worldwide travel feel of the first 2 episodes, the scope of the show has expanded beyond London and now feels a lot like classic victorian fiction. All the references to Captain Nemo helped, but seeing Tim Dalton in Africa felt a bit more like the sort of adventure I wanted to see in the show. - The writing feels improved. There were some gorgeous lines and monologues so far, and while thats been something the show has always been good at, it felt more appropriate this time. Last season I just got frustrated during scenes where Eva Green discusses poetry with Frankies Monster, even though they were well written, they didn't serve a purpose and just felt like an exec decision to lump characters together, or her relationship with Dorian, none of it felt earned. There is a possibility that because my memory has faded on the events of last season I'm giving some events a free pass because its likely they don't tie in that well with characters past - Really liked all the new characters. Dr Jeykll was a nice take on the character and I'm excited to see where that goes. Natural History guy / Dracula was a really engaging performance, and I wasn't surprised when the reveal happened because I wondered why such a great actor was hiding in such a minor role. - So far I like what they are doing with the Dorian Grey 'Brotherhood / Sisterhood of evil' plot that they set up last year. When I saw that at the end of S2 I groaned a little bit as it looked pretty stupid and the show is at its worst when it sets up a big bad. But actually this looks rather good. Having Victor sitting outside Lilys watching her was quite heartbreaking, his performance has been very strong so far. So yeah I'm back on board with this show I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I'm having a hard time believing that any of this was planned.... everything leading up to the last episode suggested that these sub-plots were all supposed to continue into S4 ... Introduce Jekyll but never show us Hyde? .... Lyle goes to visit the tomb of Imhotep... and?....... Renfield was written in because? ...... Sorry... this was simply awful... Going in to S3 there was no indication that they were ending the show... How any fan of Penny Dreadful isn't disgusted by this hackneyed, retro-fitted ending is staggering... There is a reason why Starz has surpassed Showtime as the #2 pay-cable network... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 ^What he said, so much stuff was set up I was looking forward to S4, only to find out it got canceled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Finally caught up. I think I'm more pissed than dissatisfied. While I believe Vanessa's arc was at its end, I don't believe they planned to end the show the way they did. As soon as Cat showed up I guessed it meant bad news for Vanessa. Shows have a tendency of wanting to keep "the energy of the characters balanced." Lily and Vanessa were the "feminine people" so I could see the show not wanting to be too masculine going into season 4. Same thing happened on Sleepy Hollow, and on the Good Wife with the romantic leads. I fully expected Lyle to come back, Hyde to show up, Lucifer and Dracula to have a showdown, etc. This, while beautiful, just wasn't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Season 3 let the show down so much. I still loved it but agree with others' criticisms of it, nothing will beat how SPECTACULAR season two was. FUCK, what a season of television that was. Bloody fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 17 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said: Season 3 let the show down so much. I still loved it but agree with others' criticisms of it, nothing will beat how SPECTACULAR season two was. FUCK, what a season of television that was. Bloody fantastic. Am I alone in thinking that Season 2 was pretty 'DREADFUL' then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 10 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Am I alone in thinking that Season 2 was pretty 'DREADFUL' then? If by that you mean that it was bad, then yes, I think you are in the minority. At least here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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