Golden Royce Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Hi! I was reading up on the Bannerman of westeros and found that most consider the Riverlords the worst. Why? They have fertile lands and a lot of subjects. They also have the rivers for trade. The Mallisters and Blackwood's are extremely loyal to the Tully/Stark cause while others are still wolfish. Blackfish is a legendary Knight and an excellent commander.yet they were smashed in wo5ks and are constantly belittled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSovereignGrave Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 It's simple throughout history they've been the easy targets. They're smack dab in the middle of Westeros with no natural borders to protect them so they've constantly been victimized and screwed over over the ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 ...except that one time they conquered all of Westeros, with just a bit of help from some dragons. Seriously, the Riverlords carried about 80% of Aegon's Conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorn Snow Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 4 hours ago, Bright Blue Eyes said: ...except that one time they conquered all of Westeros, with just a bit of help from some dragons. Seriously, the Riverlords carried about 80% of Aegon's Conquest. Makes sense. The Riverlands benefit most from a stable, unified Westeros. Trade, trade, trade, and their lands no longer battlegrounds between Stormlands, Vale and Westerlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jasonothegreat Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 On 6/10/2016 at 8:18 PM, Golden Royce said: Hi! I was reading up on the Bannerman of westeros and found that most consider the Riverlords the worst. Why? They have fertile lands and a lot of subjects. They also have the rivers for trade. The Mallisters and Blackwood's are extremely loyal to the Tully/Stark cause while others are still wolfish. Blackfish is a legendary Knight and an excellent commander.yet they were smashed in wo5ks and are constantly belittled. They Have no natural barriers to protect themselves, The Riverlands has no mountains, hills, forests or bogs to hide behind (anymore). While House Frey, Darry and Tully managed to amass some power along with lords Butterwell and Strong they still had the problem of being surrounded with no natural defenses. As well While the Blackwoods, Mallisters and even the Brackens were very loyal to House Stark, their loyalty to house Tully is questionable. The Riverlords have a history of butting heads, rivaling power and no true Kings. While The Kingdoms around them never had more than one Dynasty the Riverlands have always been divided and trying to mount the other. At least five dynasties have been named Kings of the Trident and two still survive to this day. While the Valelords always bowed to the Arryns and the Ironborn chose the Greyjoys, Lord Edmyn Tully was appointed, and he wasn't exactly loved by the other Riverlords. The Riverlands have a habit of fracturing during Wars, throughout history you could see that the prominent houses of the Riverlands, Be it: Blackwood, Frey, Bracken, Darry or the Incumbent Lord Of Harrenhal, they all would defy the Tullys and join the otehrside of the war, hoping to be named LP of the Riverlands themselves probably. Which is why they are looked on as weak, they can never truly unite and their numbers are considerably less compared to the Northmans or the Westermans. The Riverlands is a weak region In terms of Military defense and since the Fall of House Teague The Riverlords haven't bowed low (in unison) to any King. They aren't Powerful They aren't Old (few Exceptions) and They are weak. To speak ill of these Lord of Course. Lord Walder Frey is one of the longest living, most powerful lords the Realm has ever seen *Nervous Glares* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jasonothegreat Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 On 6/11/2016 at 0:47 AM, Bright Blue Eyes said: ...except that one time they conquered all of Westeros, with just a bit of help from some dragons. Seriously, the Riverlords carried about 80% of Aegon's Conquest. In The Beginning But it seems implied that after the Field Of Fire it was mainly the Westerman and Reachman armies as the main terrifying majority of King Aegon's Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 1 hour ago, jasonothegreat said: Lord Edmyn Tully was appointed, and he wasn't exactly loved by the other Riverlords. Quite the opposite. Edmyn Tully united the Riverlords in rebellion against Harren and only afterwards linked up with Aegon. Out of the four (three) non-ruling dynasties, he started on the best base. 57 minutes ago, jasonothegreat said: In The Beginning But it seems implied that after the Field Of Fire it was mainly the Westerman and Reachman armies as the main terrifying majority of King Aegon's Army. After the Field of Fire, there was nothing anymore. The Riverlords drove the campaigns against Ironborn, Stormlanders, Reach and Westerlanders. The campaigns that were decided militarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jasonothegreat Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 On 6/12/2016 at 4:56 PM, Bright Blue Eyes said: Quite the opposite. Edmyn Tully united the Riverlords in rebellion against Harren and only afterwards linked up with Aegon. Out of the four (three) non-ruling dynasties, he started on the best base. After the Field of Fire, there was nothing anymore. The Riverlords drove the campaigns against Ironborn, Stormlanders, Reach and Westerlanders. The campaigns that were decided militarily. Edmyn Tully on my interpretation was simply the first lord to rebel against the Ironborn. He Rose When Aegon invaded the Riverlands just like the Blackwoods rose against the Teague some 400 years prior. Yes he did spark the rebellion but it was inevitable, The Riverlords as I said haven't been happy with a King since the Teagues. All Edmyn Tully did was rise first earning Aegon's gratitude. But remember this is literally the third time the Riverlords rose against their incumbent King because they are restless. The last time they were Happy with a Dynasties entire rule and didn't rebel was the Justmans. Edmyn rose when Aegon invaded because he saw a cahnce to continue rivermen tradition. To your second point, It was the Westerman-Reachman army that deterred King Torrhen from meeting in open battle, A fairly pivotal role of the army. It served as the main bulk of the army for years and even today the two Most powerful Lords of the Realm are the Lannisters and Tyrells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegon the dragonless Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 14/06/2016 at 2:23 AM, jasonothegreat said: Edmyn Tully on my interpretation was simply the first lord to rebel against the Ironborn. He Rose When Aegon invaded the Riverlands just like the Blackwoods rose against the Teague some 400 years prior. Yes he did spark the rebellion but it was inevitable, The Riverlords as I said haven't been happy with a King since the Teagues. All Edmyn Tully did was rise first earning Aegon's gratitude. But remember this is literally the third time the Riverlords rose against their incumbent King because they are restless. The last time they were Happy with a Dynasties entire rule and didn't rebel was the Justmans. Edmyn rose when Aegon invaded because he saw a cahnce to continue rivermen tradition. To your second point, It was the Westerman-Reachman army that deterred King Torrhen from meeting in open battle, A fairly pivotal role of the army. It served as the main bulk of the army for years and even today the two Most powerful Lords of the Realm are the Lannisters and Tyrells. I thougth it was the fact that the 3 dragons were there that Thorren bent the knee more so than the army that was theyre since they could just go bach to Moat Callin and make a stand there. Even if the army would certainlly count some survivor from the field of fire but i dout theyre where that many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 6/10/2016 at 8:18 PM, Golden Royce said: Hi! I was reading up on the Bannerman of westeros and found that most consider the Riverlords the worst. Why? They have fertile lands and a lot of subjects. They also have the rivers for trade. The Mallisters and Blackwood's are extremely loyal to the Tully/Stark cause while others are still wolfish. Blackfish is a legendary Knight and an excellent commander.yet they were smashed in wo5ks and are constantly belittled. They are the Poland of Westeros everyone is going to kick the shit out of them when they fight each other. They have done it for most of the history of the Riverlands. Generally comes back to the Blackwoods and Brackens. On 6/11/2016 at 0:47 AM, Bright Blue Eyes said: ...except that one time they conquered all of Westeros, with just a bit of help from some dragons. Seriously, the Riverlords carried about 80% of Aegon's Conquest. That was several centuries of pent up rage at the rest of Westeros. The Stormlands and Iron Islands in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 As suggested, I think that the important distinction to make here is that it's not that the Riverlands are the weakest kingdom, is that House Tully are the weakest overlords. Most of their bannermen are wealthier or more prestigious than them. Edmyn was probably a great leader and a wise man, but after he died the riverlords were left as vassals of a house that was weaker than they were. As a consequence they ruled themselves independently, and acted ignoring the Tullys. For this reason they are always divided at the wars (Dance of Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions, War of the Usurper,...). We have also to take into account that when we meet them in the books, they are in their worst moment. The War of the Usurper, just a generation before, hurt them the worst (most of the fighting was done in his territory, and they were divided until the end). Then they were attacked in the Greyjoy Rebellion, and their host had just been smashed at the Golden Tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 On 4/26/2017 at 7:38 AM, The hairy bear said: As suggested, I think that the important distinction to make here is that it's not that the Riverlands are the weakest kingdom, is that House Tully are the weakest overlords. Most of their bannermen are wealthier or more prestigious than them. Edmyn was probably a great leader and a wise man, but after he died the riverlords were left as vassals of a house that was weaker than they were. As a consequence they ruled themselves independently, and acted ignoring the Tullys. For this reason they are always divided at the wars (Dance of Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions, War of the Usurper,...). We have also to take into account that when we meet them in the books, they are in their worst moment. The War of the Usurper, just a generation before, hurt them the worst (most of the fighting was done in his territory, and they were divided until the end). Then they were attacked in the Greyjoy Rebellion, and their host had just been smashed at the Golden Tooth. They are certainly the weakest in terms of prestige, House Tyrell being a close second. Still House Tyrell were basically the unofficial Hands to the Garderner Kings of the Reach. The Tully's were never Kings before the Targaryens and the various kings the Riverlands had never lasted long. Not to mention the Riverlords have a history of fighting each other its a recipe for why the Riverlands never get anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jasonothegreat Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 On 4/23/2017 at 0:21 PM, Vaegon the dragonless said: I thougth it was the fact that the 3 dragons were there that Thorren bent the knee more so than the army that was theyre since they could just go bach to Moat Callin and make a stand there. Even if the army would certainlly count some survivor from the field of fire but i dout theyre where that many. The 3 Dragons plus an army of forty thousand (if I remember Correctly) Torrhen knew about the Dragons when he marched into the Riverlands, what he didn't know was how fast the the Southron lords would rise with Aegon... At least that's how I read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 they are essentially between three powerful lands and have no natural barriers. There were essentially the bufferzone between those three powers and that means they were essentially the battle field. It didn't allow them to be strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyg Doggett Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 On Invalid Date at 0:38 PM, The hairy bear said: Most of their bannermen are wealthier or more prestigious than them. Edmyn was probably a great leader and a wise man, but after he died the riverlords were left as vassals of a house that was weaker than they were. As a consequence they ruled themselves independently, and acted ignoring the Tullys. For this reason they are always divided at the wars (Dance of Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions, War of the Usurper,...). They were never exactly the same folk. All the Nortmen are Northmen, all Ironborn are Ironborn, the Reach is united by the legends of Garth the Green, but Backwoods are Blakwoods, Brakens are Brakens, Darrys are Darrys, etc. Dispite that, I like them. Above all, my own House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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