CLEGANEBOWL.. Why it won't happen the way you think

[SerMixalot]

There isn't going to be a Cleganebowl in the books, it makes ZERO thematic sense

[Hodor's Aunt]

Did this lil petty-king just call CLAGENEBOWL off? I liked Tommen before, he wasn't smart but a decent lad and that means something when you only have the blood of two grandparents.

But now: just kill him off already so the next king can restore trial by combat.

[The Bear]

5 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

There isn't going to be a Cleganebowl in the books, it makes ZERO thematic sense

Agreed. It doesn't make sense and their arcs don't seem like they're going to overlap. I've never believed in it.

[Ludo Kressh]

10 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

The trial is for the incest with Jaime, she admitted the affair with Lancel and did the walk of shame for it. 

So if she is found guilty, she is killed, Tommen is dethroned and the HS loses the support of the Iron Throne

Somehow, this might be more satisfying than burning them all. Although I kind of think Cersei will do this anyway before she burns them all as a huge 'fuck you' before giving the order to release the wildfire(sort of like how she admitted it to Tywin).

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

18 hours ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Did you think I meant this would happen early in Winds or something?  Martin doesn't do jetpacks like the show, so this is a development that's quite a ways down the line imo, probably ADOS material.  

Once her children are dead and the Sparrows are burned, I think Cersei will set about seeking revenge on all her remaining enemies, which will include Sansa.  Cersei can either keep Robert Strong nearby to protect her at all times or she could set him loose on her enemies. I think she will choose the latter.  I don't think that's a far fetched or "contrived" scenario at all.   

The same with Sandor not staying on the Quiet Isle forever and his eventually gravitating back towards the Stark girls, which would put him in Robert Strong's path if Cersei sends him after Sansa.   
  

1. Cersei has no idea that Sansa is in the Vale.  By the time she learns of this, Sansa will probably no longer be in the Vale.

2. The Vale is notoriously difficult, bordering on impossible, for an invading army to deal with.  It will only be more difficult with the onset of winter. This is the reason they can carry on like Switzerland and everybody leaves them alone.

3. Re-read the Cersei chapters from 'Crows again.  Cersei is P-A-R-A-N-O-I-D. There's no theoretical point in the future where she decides she's got everything in King's Landing pinned down and now she can lead a Lannister army to the Vale becasue why not.  And, she's certainly not going to put distance between herself and the best bodyguard in the realm.  It's far more likely that she will deal with this (if she ever does) the way Lannisters deal with a lot of problems: Sacks and sacks of gold. She and her Robert Strong will sit safely in King's Landing while her well paid proxies hunt for Sansa.

4. Before he dropped off the map, did Sandor have any awareness of Sansa's whereabouts?

5. There is no indication Sandor will leave the Quest isle, ever, except in the minds of book fans who need to keep "Cleganebowl" alive for some reason. To quote the Elder Brother, “The Hound is dead, Sandor is at rest.”

Also, to tie this thread back to the show somehow, feeble jokes about teleporters and jetpacks are getting a bit old.  For the sake of storytelling, I'm willing to assume that some of the scenes in the show do not follow a linear continuity and that the 10 episodes don't actually take place over 10 consecutive days.

[Ser Wun Wun]

52 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

1. Cersei has no idea that Sansa is in the Vale.  By the time she learns of this, Sansa will probably no longer be in the Vale.

2. The Vale is notoriously difficult, bordering on impossible, for an invading army to deal with.  It will only be more difficult with the onset of winter. This is the reason they can carry on like Switzerland and everybody leaves them alone.

3. Re-read the Cersei chapters from 'Crows again.  Cersei is P-A-R-A-N-O-I-D. There's no theoretical point in the future where she decides she's got everything in King's Landing pinned down and now she can lead a Lannister army to the Vale becasue why not.  And, she's certainly not going to put distance between herself and the best bodyguard in the realm.  It's far more likely that she will deal with this (if she ever does) the way Lannisters deal with a lot of problems: Sacks and sacks of gold. She and her Robert Strong will sit safely in King's Landing while her well paid proxies hunt for Sansa.

4. Before he dropped off the map, did Sandor have any awareness of Sansa's whereabouts?

5. There is no indication Sandor will leave the Quest isle, ever, except in the minds of book fans who need to keep "Cleganebowl" alive for some reason. To quote the Elder Brother, “The Hound is dead, Sandor is at rest.”

Also, to tie this thread back to the show somehow, feeble jokes about teleporters and jetpacks are getting a bit old.  For the sake of storytelling, I'm willing to assume that some of the scenes in the show do not follow a linear continuity and that the 10 episodes don't actually take place over 10 consecutive days.

Who said anything about armies invading the Vale?  I said Cersei would send Robert Strong to assassinate her enemies, he doesn't need backup.  Qyburn's alterations have made him into a virtual terminator.

Cersei is going to burn her enemies in KL with wildfire and lose her children in the process.  She will have nothing left except for petty revenge after that.  At that point she either set's the beast loose on her enemies or she tries to employ underlings like you are talking about.  For dramatic reasons, I say Martin has her let Robert Strong loose.  If you think she'll settle for the latter and Robert Strong will simply play bodyguard until the end...well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I believe the show has now killed that idea that Sandor's arc ends with the Quiet Isle, but branching from that point I have a bad feeling this will devolve into yet another 'does the show spoil anything' argument which just isn't a debate worth having as I've learned from experience.  So warning you now, I'm not gonna reply to anything that goes down that particular rabbit hole.       

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Who said anything about armies invading the Vale?  I said Cersei would send Robert Strong to assassinate her enemies, he doesn't need backup.  Qyburn's alterations have made him into a virtual terminator.

Cersei is going to burn her enemies in KL with wildfire and lose her children in the process.  She will have nothing left except for petty revenge after that.  At that point she either set's the beast loose on her enemies or she tries to employ underlings like you are talking about.  For dramatic reasons, I say Martin has her let Robert Strong loose.  If you think she'll settle for the latter and Robert Strong will simply play bodyguard until the end...well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I believe the show has now killed that idea that Sandor's arc ends with the Quiet Isle, but branching from that point I have a bad feeling this will devolve into yet another 'does the show spoil anything' argument which just isn't a debate worth having as I've learned from experience.  So warning you now, I'm not gonna reply to anything that goes down that particular rabbit hole.       

Your entire theory requires that rabbit hole.

 

And you haven't given any plausible reason for sending Robert Strong.  From the way he's described in the books and in the show, he's not exactly built for stealth. Even when he was the Mountain, he wasn't exactly known for his skill as an assasin.

[King Louis II (KLII)]

On June 12, 2016 at 9:49 PM, Ser Wun Wun said:

I think Lady Crane's speech (plus what Jaime said to Brienne) is the show's way of foreshadowing that Cersei isn't done with Sansa yet.  Once she's done burning the Sparrows with wildfire, she will send Robert Strong after Sansa, because that sort of revenge is all she will have left after Tommen dies and she has no children.  

That's when we will get Cleganebowl imo, when Robert Strong goes to kill Sansa and the Hound saves her (probably dies in doing it too),

That would be sweet. The only problem is that the mountain wasn't very bright before, and now with less brain cells wouldn't be that easy for him to track her down , talk with people that may have seen her etc... But these details can be easily ignored in the show

[Karmarni]

4 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

5. There is no indication Sandor will leave the Quest isle, ever, except in the minds of book fans who need to keep "Cleganebowl" alive for some reason. To quote the Elder Brother, “The Hound is dead, Sandor is at rest.”

Disagree. There's every indication he will leave the QI in the books. "At rest" can also mean laying low for awhile, healing up. Doesn't mean forever. And I'm not a "keep Cleganebowl alive" theorist, there are certainly other possibilities out there besides that for Sandor. Sandor has always been meant to leave the QI. It was telegraphed in the entire speech the Elder Brother gave about him. Along with Dog, who's sniffing around there and at the Inn at the Crossroads, and Sandor's horse Stranger who doesn't want his nuts cut off.

No way does GRRM leave Sandor Clegane alive for some "oh, aren't I wonderful, I'm giving him 'peace'." He's a great character, a big strong man, he's been keeping fit by digging graves and climbing the many steps there on the isle. So, no, I'm sure he's back in the books too. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

44 minutes ago, Karmarni said:

Disagree. There's every indication he will leave the QI in the books. "At rest" can also mean laying low for awhile, healing up. Doesn't mean forever. And I'm not a "keep Cleganebowl alive" theorist, there are certainly other possibilities out there besides that for Sandor. Sandor has always been meant to leave the QI. It was telegraphed in the entire speech the Elder Brother gave about him. Along with Dog, who's sniffing around there and at the Inn at the Crossroads, and Sandor's horse Stranger who doesn't want his nuts cut off.

No way does GRRM leave Sandor Clegane alive for some "oh, aren't I wonderful, I'm giving him 'peace'." He's a great character, a big strong man, he's been keeping fit by digging graves and climbing the many steps there on the isle. So, no, I'm sure he's back in the books too. 

The use of the idiom "at rest" in that context is debatable, but I don't think it's that debatable.  I think Sandor's catharsis is real.  I think he's had a belly full of killing and hypocrisy.  I think he's had enough of the world and he's going to stay put.

 How exactly was it telegraphed in the Elder Brothers speech?