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[Spoilers] Criticize without repercussion

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13 minutes ago, The fanny from hell said:

Whatevs. Given that your first post here was more about the books than the show, that your subsequent ones were the same, and your posting history, it's pretty clear that you came here to troll. You'll have to excuse me for my frankness. :dunno:

The term troll is used to loosely, as some silly kind of accusation of something. I am critical of the show, the books and, most of all, the opinions of other posters - I enjoy debate, on all levels, and make no effort to hide it - if you think that's trollish, well, don't go clip clopping over my bridge :D

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2 minutes ago, ummester said:

The term troll is used to loosely, as some silly kind of accusation of something. I am critical of the show, the books and, most of all, the opinions of other posters - I enjoy debate, on all levels, and make no effort to hide it - if you think that's trollish, well, don't go clip clopping over my bridge :D

All I'm saying is, let's stay ON TOPIC.

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12 minutes ago, ummester said:

Yes, what this show has become is exactly what self parody is. Those old enough to remember Happy Days will remember where jumping the shark first came from and how that show and it's characters became ridiculous parodies of themselves. The worst offender in Game of Thrones is Tyrion, IMO - he has been a Tyrion caricature for 2 seasons now.

And yes, Arya being as popular as she was will have a broad effect on many viewers. Personally, I was never that invested in Arya - other than just how dark medieval hit girl was going to get - but this silly comic book version we saw last episode is hit girl gone wrong.

I was just reading an article that suggested even Sopranos jumped the shark near the end - though it managed to pull it together for the finale. I watched Sopranos back to back and, though I thought it became a little silly around the time it focused on the gay gangster, it still held my interest. I think everything has a shelf life and if you go past it, it turns to shit - nothing is ever good enough to be stretched on forever and less is often more.

I violently disagree The Sopranos ever jumped the shark, but I digress.

Ha.  Tyrion in Meereen.  What a waste.  While I didn't like the way they killed Selmy, and in hindsight, keeping Selmy alive to play off Tyrion wouldn't have been a bad idea.  But, I got why they did it.  Firestarter is out of Meereen, we want someone who can help carry the story and Tyrion ends up here anyway.  Voila. Move it up.  It could have worked.  It SHOULD have worked.  Why did it fail?  

Some of it rests I think on earlier poor decisions, killing off Hizzy, no Grace, no Selmy...not the right mix of characters where you could have seen a King's Landingesque type of story where finding out who is behind the harpies would have been intersting..I mean, come the fuck on "slavers" are behind the harpies was so lame of a "reveal", I even thought for a second that maybe Varys was playing a double game there because it seemed even stupid by GOT standards that this would be any kind of worthwhile information anyone needed the Master of Whispers to figure out, slavers behind everything, ya don't say?  Who could have thunk it?

Instead of any kind of politics, mystery it was the 3 of them in the same room, doing the same thing for several episodes running, with only the one scene w/the slavers that had any meat on it.  No wonder Dinklage is mailing it in.

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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Ha.  Tyrion in Meereen.  What a waste.  While I didn't like the way they killed Selmy, and in hindsight, keeping Selmy alive to play off Tyrion wouldn't have been a bad idea.  But, I got why they did it.  Firestarter is out of Meereen, we want someone who can help carry the story and Tyrion ends up here anyway.  Voila. Move it up.  It could have worked.  It SHOULD have worked.  Why did it fail?  

Two main reasons, I think:

1) Now we have Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missendai treading water, waiting for Dany (who is also treading water) waiting for things to line up for her return in Westeros. The whole Dany plotline has totally run out of steam - and won't have any until her dragons start burning Westeros.

2) Dinklage is a very overrated actor and not at all interesting when he has boring material.

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Some of it rests I think on earlier poor decisions, killing off Hizzy, no Grace, no Selmy...not the right mix of characters where you could have seen a King's Landingesque type of story where finding out who is behind the harpies would have been intersting..I mean, come the fuck on "slavers" are behind the harpies was so lame of a "reveal", I even thought for a second that maybe Varys was playing a double game there because it seemed even stupid by GOT standards that this would be any kind of worthwhile information anyone needed the Master of Whispers to figure out, slavers behind everything, ya don't say?  Who could have thunk it?

Hizzy was the best thing left in Dany's story. I agree, killing him was a mistake. He was the only sensible voice in Mereen last season :D

Re the slavers - yea, it's boring - I still hope Varys is behind it. or possibly the Iron Bank, or possible Varys working for the Iron Bank - but after how Arya's story has been resolved, I'm giving up hope for anything that interesting.

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I think this will be helpful:

On May 29, 2016 at 2:54 AM, LulaMae Barnes said:

Since there usually is such a thread to freely rant and rave about every new episode, I thought we surely need one for this as well---:huh:

Criticize the show all you want! Off we go - chop chop!!!

 

The topic of the thread is discussing things you disliked about the episode. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if the normal rules of the forum do not apply.

Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked.

 

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At first I thought my complaints were just because "not muh book canon" but eventually things like Arya's stabbing, surviving, and being allowed to quit made me realize it's actually just a badly written show in general. She cost them TWO assassins, and with her quitting that's three people short. On that level alone it makes no sense for them to just let her go. 

On the meta level, why did we need to watch her "arc" at all? There was no story, no satisfying conclusion that tied it all together. No theme. It was basically the Time Chamber training from DBZ, she just had to be doing SOMETHING in order to justify a power up. 

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On 6/14/2016 at 2:04 PM, Apathetic Onlooker said:

This episode was utterly painful to watch.  I annoyed my wife to no end by how I couldn't stop bitching about every single scene while the poor girl was trying to study for an exam.  I didn't think it was possible for D&D to cock it up this bad, but the butchery was so real that for the good of the infinitely patient woman under my roof, I just had to create an account here so I could safely vent my spleen in silence.

I mean, I know I am sometimes a bit nit-picky but I try to be objective and understanding.  But there wasn't a single, not one goddamn scene that wasn't just an absolute mess.  Everyone here has talked to death about Arya, I know, but yeah, her surviving multiple stab wounds to the abdomen and being able to live, much less fight, after is bullshit.  And all she's given for these grievous, certainly fatal wounds is bandages and milk of the popey and she's all better?  Hey, hey-- remember when Robert Baratheon died from a stomach wound??   Wasn't he too wrapped in bandages and given milk of the popey?  I guess it's too bad he didn't have this actress lady to dress him up....

Then there's Tyrion's utterly boring antics in Mereen...  What's he doing here again?  Why is Barristan Selmy dead and Greyworm/ Mel still alive?  Oh hey look, there's war going on outside, ain't that something.  WHAT?  Who the hell guards this city and why wasn't anyone informed?  First Mereen's ships all burn down out of nowhere, now it's getting attacked out of nowhere.  Literally, an entire fleet is within goddamn catapult range, lobbing fire at the port by the time anyone knows they're there, and Tyrion is like "huh... well, that's interesting."  Oh hey, Daenerys is back.  Jesus when did that happen? Y'know, at this point, I'm expecting Yara and Theon to just sail through the pyramid and ask where the nearest brothel is.  Maybe Euron will also show up with a brand, spanking new fleet built out of nothing so he can show Daenerys is his "big cock".

The whole Riverrun arc just nauseated me.  So Brynden Tully would rather DIE than fight for his grand-niece?   He actually threw the line "My grand-niece wants to get her home?  Well, I want to keep mine."  I can't ever imagine those words to come out of this man's mouth.  This is your family, Brynden, not some nobody you know from nowhere.  This is the daughter of your niece, Caitlyn.  You remember Caitlyn? You loved her, and one of her greatest grievances, when she was alive, was the fate of her children.  Remember Robb?  The man you saw as your king?  Hell, you even chastised Edmure Tully for calling him nephew and not addressing him with the respect of his position.  Sansa is his sister, you pretender!  Don't you feel anything for your duty, you who just stated that the war is 'not over' for you?  Why aren't you rallying with the other Starks? For all you know, Sansa should be Queen in the North (I'm guessing he wouldn't know Rickon is alive).    Isn't your House's words "Family, Duty, Honor"?  WHERE IS YOUR DUTY TO FAMILY!?  

I refuse to believe this was Blackfish Tully.  This is not the same man we've seen from the last seasons and he's certainly not the same man as in the books.  As far as I'm concerned, Brynden returned back to his Keep after the Freys failed to execute Edmure for the umptenth time, and now he's just watching television, feasting on his two years of provisions as the siege continues outside.  As far as I'm concerned, he's warming his feet by a fire while watching some asinine show called Game of Thrones and waiting for the Winds of Winter to come out. 

But worse than any of that, this whole season (and the last one) just seems to get all the characters and their motivations wrong.  I no longer understand why anyone is doing anything, and therefore, I cannot begin to care about any of their stories.  I never thought I'd find myself in the position of wishing Tyrion, Sansa, Jaime, and Jon would just die (and stay dead).  Why would Tyrion care who sits on the Iron Throne after what Westeros did to him? Why has Sansa grown no smarter than she was in season 1 after years with schemers and seeming to become a political manipulator in season 4?  Why is Jaime regressing on all that character development established in seasons 2 and 3?  Why is Jon back to being an aimless little bastard boy who doesn't seem to have an ounce of passion or care about anything?  Why is Davos following Jon and not asking Melissandre against what the fuck happened to Stannis and Shireen?  Why isn't he angry at Brienne, a woman that straight-up told him she executed the VERY MAN THAT RAISED HIM TO NOBILITY!?  Why is Tommen removing trial-by-combat and opening up his reign to being delegitimized?  Why are Margaery, Kevan, and Pycelle just standing by okay with this?  Why is the High Sparrow even wanting to remove this law, when by doing so it makes him look heretical and unbelieving in the Warrior's justice?  Why is Dorne... doing everything it's doing?  What is happening here?

If you can't understand the characters and their motives, you can't relate to them.  You can't feel anything for them.  The sad thing is that many of these characters in seasons 1-3 were what got me into reading the books.  And now, as I look at how the show has degraded since season 4, I can't help but see an opportunity so utterly wasted.  I didn't think the directors would ever sink to this level of bad.  What's their excuse anymore?  They have all the money and time in the world to make a proper adaptation.  George R R Martin has told them how the plot proceeds and ends.  And D&D have masters degrees in creative writing...   I'd think they could manage better than this, but instead they're rushing this show out the door and sabotaging everything they established to this point.  I know that people get tired and want to move on to new horizons, but you've invested so much into this project now.  Why piss on it this late in the game?  

Hell... believe it or not, I could rant a lot more.  This has been building for a long time over the last two seasons, but I'm just exhausted.  It's hard not to feel totally betrayed after how wonderfully this show started.  For all the inevitable changes, it felt like A Song of Ice and Fire.  Now, it feels like a bastardization.  This show will have an impact on the fantasy genre for years to come-- perhaps even more of an impact than the books due to the wider audience.  And to just see it betray that source material this badly is just so depressing.

So many great rants in this thread but yours is so well said. I couldn't agree more. 

I think it really says something when you see the level of betrayal felt by so many previously loyal fans. We all loved this show, and so many of us - me included - only found this incredible series of books through the show, and its creators have utterly and completely failed us. I'm just sad and tired with the whole thing. 

And I think what is most frustrating is their arrogant claims that it is SO SO SO much better than those books now that they're free of them. How can they possibly think this is good?

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On 6/14/2016 at 9:28 PM, The Bear said:

I agree. I think that poor Rickon is toast. Why else would they not bother to develop his character or show his imprisonment? I think he's fairly irrelevant to the end game and thus he has become expendable. They want to kill off a Stark so we hate Ramsey even more, but the other Starks are too important to the story to die.

I would love to spend time with Rickon and Osha on Skaagos in the books and I also hope he fares better in ASOIAF.

Honestly, I don't even think I'll care if Show!Rickon dies next episode. He's probably had a total of eight lines the entire series with his creepy singsong voice saying, "Here Shaggydog." in the crypts of Winterfell being the only one that stands out to me. All they needed to do was include a few scenes, hell even one, showing Rickon's imprisonment with Ramsay. If all you're going to do is kill him, make us give a shit first!

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Jaquen to Arya after killing the Waif : "you are no one now"
#1 rule in HofBW : to become a faceless man you must kill one of your colleagues

Jaquen will excel in any HR department

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On 6/15/2016 at 4:34 AM, Elisabetta Duò said:

(btw, it's not like the dish 'fetuccine Alfredo' really exists, just to let you know ...)

No fettuccine alfredo? Elisabetta, my life is ruined! :P 

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Am I a Hipster for being critical of the show before criticizing the show became cool?

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30 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Jaquen to Arya after killing the Waif : "you are no one now"
#1 rule in HofBW : to become a faceless man you must kill one of your colleagues

Jaquen will excel in any HR department

Ummm wouldn't that mean there was always 1 FM? I'm so confused

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7 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Ummm wouldn't that mean there was always 1 FM? I'm so confused

it's not good for business, millions of dollars were spent on the training of the Waif

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16 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Ummm wouldn't that mean there was always 1 FM? I'm so confused

Jesus jaquen killed himself but rose again on the 3rd day to form the FM

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11 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Ummm wouldn't that mean there was always 1 FM? I'm so confused

No, that rule was implemented only after Braavosi unemployment rate hit 30% as a consequence of the Iron Bank being bailed out.

 

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39 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Am I a Hipster for being critical of the show before criticizing the show became cool?

Sigh...it just took a long time for all of my hopes and dreams for GOT to be slaughtered. The Waif's vicious stabbing was not to Arya's gut but to the last vestige of hope I had in this show.

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4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

First, in general, I'm am so happy to see posters here sharing the reactions of past actors on the show. Many others feel it is something more people should be aware of :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

@Paxter Redwyne I used to get really upset that my favorite secondary supporting characters never showed up on screen when they should have, but then after season 3, I am happy as hell they didn't because they would have been destroyed on the show. It was a blessing in disguise :D

Here's to the saving of: 

Val, Lady Stoneheart, Gatehouse Ami, Nimble Dick, Val, Satin, Iron Emmet, Genna Lannister, Brown Benn Plumm, Taena Merryweather, Garlan and Val. :cheers:

RIP Bloodraven :crying:

I am happy to meet kindred spirit  :cheers: 

And don't worry, in show it wasn't even Bloodraven. They always reffered to him as Three Eyed Crow. He was just weird old man in tree. They didn't even bothered to make him one-eyed. Heh. Actually i don't know any person besides Beric who has one eye in show. Even Euron Crow's Eye have two eyes cause eyepatch is too mainstream for Dumb, Dumber and Cogman. Better give Euron some fucking funny cock jokes, it is always funny, right? :bang:

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3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I agree.  Arya is so popular, and that sequence was so poorly done....done so poorly it caused the internet to go nuts creating theories to explain how it would be an awesome twist, and then, not only no twist, but the finale even more poorly done than the set up.....yes, jump the shark moment.  

But, the show kind of parodies itself now, doesn't it?  With the string of cock jokes and drinking games and the Hound practically bashing down the 4th wall looking into the camera, wink, wink "Chicken".....if that isn't self parody, what is it?

I didn't mind the sweet dragon scene, it just told me Drogon will die at the end. LOL. The Jason and the Argonauts skeletons was bad, though, very cheesy.

The only thing missed there was some audience laughter sound effect!

Last episode was trashy. I might rather that the show becomes self aware about its self parody and taking it to the max. I'm talking bringing Arnold Schwarzenegger in this shit as Azor Ahai come again! 

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