[Spoilers] EP608

[TheKingInTheNorth3]

32 minutes ago, olibar said:

This is just the very beginning of a theory that I hope to expand on later, but what if we didn't see the fight last night because the waif won and stole Arya's face.

So it was the Waif who finally became "no one" by killing Arya and taking her face.

And she has taken Arya's face to do the will of the House of Black and White in Westeros.

The House of B&W couldn't turn Arya to their will.  So they are impersonating her instead to achieve their goals.

 

This is ridiculous

[TheValonqarThatWasAzorAhai]

7 hours ago, tormund's beard said:

well arya is not neds daughter. she is wolverine's daughter.

Yes!!!!

[Sansa's Hairnet]

The sadist in me wonders if Arya cut the waif's face off with Needle.

[Stannis Lives]

1 hour ago, Sansa's Hairnet said:

The sadist in me wonders if Arya cut the waif's face off with Needle.

It's always bothered me, even in the books, that Needle is just a normal sword. I wish Jon found some valyrian steel lying around. Maybe melt down that dagger. 

[hallam]

8 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Ooh ooh I know, because D&D asked her not to have Drogon burn it down so the Greyjoys can swoop in and save the day.  

Erm, what was it Dany was wanting?

Oh yes, ships.

Would not be very easy to sail the ships to Westeros after Drogon has torched them, now would it?

19 hours ago, Hos the Hostage said:

There were a lot of oranges for sale in Braavos - was it a dig at Lemongate?

I really hope that the producers do stuff just to wind up the loonier folk here. They certainly deserve it. if it was me I would have Bran warging back to Shireen's burning so she could say, 'not again! I got burned in the book as well!'.

Given that next week will be spent on the Battle of the Bastards, I doubt that we are going to be seeing Danny landing in Westeros this season. 

[Sandsnake820]

22 hours ago, Arya Gendry said:

I love how in this show about dragons, white walkers, humans that can enter the bodies of animals, and a couple of people who have returned from the dead, no one can believe for a second that Arya could survive a stab wound. She was blind and regained her sight. She survived countless beatings from the Waif that would have sent any of us to the hospital for weeks. For whatever reason, be it FM magic or some inherited greatness, Arya is special. I believe this was Ja'qen's plan all along. He knew her suffering and he knew her skill and potential. He trained her so that she would be ready when she left, like he always knew she would.

I'm not sure why Varys would go to Oldtown OR Dorne. Dorne has had no ships since Nymeria landed and burned them all. Perhaps Volantis, where Yara and Theon (seemingly) are? 

Tyrion/Grey Worm/MIssandei was so painful. Of all the time wasters, that is the worst. 

I love the Hound, and I have the greatest hope that he will get word of Ramsay's treatment of Sansa and kill him slowly. The Hound, killing the master of hounds...

I didn't hate the episode. I enjoyed the return of Beric and Thoros and the scenes between Jamie/Brienne, Jamie/Edmure, and especially Bronn/Pod. 

 

I'm under the belief that Arya was over exaggerating how hurt she was in an effort to lure the Waif to her where her little hide out was.  Clearly the Waif is no slouch and Arya hasn't exactly won any battles against her.  She played it smart. 

[Big Daddy]

2 hours ago, hallam said:

 

I really hope that the producers do stuff just to wind up the loonier folk here. They certainly deserve it. if it was me I would have Bran warging back to Shireen's burning so she could say, 'not again! I got burned in the book as well!'.

 

I thought it was an obvious homage to the Godfather. Oranges were always shown to depict danger or death.

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Big Daddy

[Ser Creighton]

14 hours ago, tormund's beard said:

well arya is not neds daughter. she is wolverine's daughter.

Arya Stark = Cat of the Canals = Kitty Pryde, ninja school and all.

7 hours ago, olibar said:

This is just the very beginning of a theory that I hope to expand on later, but what if we didn't see the fight last night because the waif won and stole Arya's face.

So it was the Waif who finally became "no one" by killing Arya and taking her face.

And she has taken Arya's face to do the will of the House of Black and White in Westeros.

The House of B&W couldn't turn Arya to their will.  So they are impersonating her instead to achieve their goals.

The entire point of the FM plot on the show, was Arya learning to fight blind or in the Darkness. It's not about the Waif any which way, it's about Arya and the Darkness. In the books Arya uses the Darkness in the sub levels of KL to shield her after Ned dies, and in the Darkness she finds Dragons. Bran is told to not fear the Darkness but make it his armor, which we have seen with Arya as well. In the moment she flicks out the candle Arya becomes a Sword in the Darkness, sound familiar? It should. It's a relevant skill to the long night after all.

I can't say I really enjoyed the shows interpretation of the FM arc, but it seem obvious what the symbolism of that scene between her and the Waif was. You could also say that Arya is looking at a choice, the Waif could be her future, she could be no one, an orphan with no home, a FM with no identity or she could be Arya, and Arya has a home, and family. Arya has often been someone else in the books, she has been running away from her self after all the tragedy as most children will do. Now she is ready to be Arya again. It's a simple choice but one she needed to make.

[Pumpkin G. Snark]

So Edmure has a son from Roslin Frey, his young wife whom he haven’t seen since the wedding-and-the-bedding night, i.e. since the RW. (For some obscure reason I can’t remember this from the books but I do remember that in the GRRM texts Jaime managed to lift the siege too, and to pass the castle to some annoying Lannister-Frey couple. And yes, it would have been better if the Blackfish could escape. But then again, the storylines are converging, characters are being eliminated.) And now Edmure expects to be rewarded by the Crown and / or the Lannisters (but I think he will not be). The facial expressions of this captain of the castle guards were priceless.

So Brienne made her travel to Riverrun for nothing except this nice encounter with Jaime. (Yes, LF will save the day, what a surprise.) And Podrick meets Bronn, yes, it’s a very important scene when we’re 3 episodes from the end of the season.

So Tyrion participates in the second naval siege in his life. He wants the defenders to do battle at the riverbank, naturally. And I like this moment when Dany casually walks into the council chamber alone.

Where is Yara’s fleet now? Will they all meet Euron the Shipbuilder?

So Cersei’s trial is being postponed again. I’ve been waiting for this procedure, much more than for the Battle of the Bastards because the result of the BB you can predict with great accuracy: Jon will win, Sansa will live, the North will suddenly remember. But the results of the Cersei's trial are unknown beforehand. Probably there’ll be

Spoiler

no trial, Jonathan Pryce gave this hint in one of his interviews (“and the HS waits for her but she doesn’t come and doesn’t come”, something like that).

Yes, yes, now all main KL events must happen during two final episodes of any season. Qyburn confirms old rumors about the wildfire storages, we can guess about the rest. Yes, it would be fitting if Jaime will return and save the city from the mad queen. But in the show Maggie the Frog says nothing about the valonqar.

What else? Oh yes, Arya.  Book-Arya’s storyline is deep, touching, unpredictable, you name it. Show-Arya (Maisie Williams) is very good in her portrayal (maybe one of the best aSoIaF impersonations at all) but she has to work with the material given to her, I think actors are not allowed to write their own lines (if you are not Lady Crane). (Though I like this bit about “what is west of Westeros”: the Iron Islands, no? Euron claimed he had seen the Sunset Sea.) Anyway, we have the most simple (and simplistic) development here. The actress is killed by the Waif (offscreen) and then the Waif is killed by Arya (offscreen), and then Arya is not killed by Jaqen, and then Arya is allowed to go home, and it was Arya all along, all your brilliant versions with blood sacks, triple faces etc. are not for this TV-story. Okay, so Maisie told the truth about 1 (she returns to Westeros) and 2 (we see her bloody hand in the trailer) but lied about 3. This means Arya Stark will cross off another name from her list. But we know (we’ve been reminded) that her sad little list contains only three names now. I can’t imagine her killing Cersei or the Mountain this season. But how she would manage to get to the Twins in the 2 remaining episodes? (And the next ep is probably North-centered).

I was glad when the Hound returned (for me he's one of the most interesting characters in the books, and Rory McCain is one of my favorite actors in GoT along with J.Pryce and D.Riggs) but now I’m beginning to think there’s already too much of him. Yes, I guess Sandor sometimes relieves himself into a nearby river (well, who wouldn’t?) but do we absolutely have to see this?

All these Tyrion-Missandei-Grey Worm social interactions mean one thing: somebody will die soon. And we can guess it will not be Tyrion.

 

Good strong episode overall, but I think the Waif/Arya scenes were somewhat rushed and almost all the others were too slow for a 8^th ep. How the show-runners fit Bran+Meera, ToJ-2, Sam+, Dany+Daario, Yara+Theon, Euron, Jorah (?) etc. into the 2 remaining episodes? Davos + Mel. Dorne (?). Varys (?). And these two battles and their nearest consequences.

Well, show us more Lyanna Mormont and we’ll be happy.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

Silliness of Arya healing pretty quick from her injuries, and coming to Jaqen to tell her what she is doing aside, i thought the chase stuff was pretty  good. I'm still perplexed on why in the last episode she was going around without a care in the world though., or why she didn't have needle on her.

 

 

Overall pretty good episode.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Tall Tyrion Lannister!

[Philpenn]

9 hours ago, Stannis Lives said:

It's always bothered me, even in the books, that Needle is just a normal sword. I wish Jon found some valyrian steel lying around. Maybe melt down that dagger. 

 

Mikkin wouldn't have known what to do with it anyhow.  Would be rad though.

[conceptualinertia]

On 6/12/2016 at 10:17 PM, lancerman said:

King's Landing

-Cersie is stuck in King's Landing without a trial by combat. Looks like the fan theory WILDFIRE plot is happening

-Jamie has already vowed to go back (cough valonqar cough)

-Dorne is heading to King's Landing to avenge Elia and Oberyn

 

Oh no. If they have Jamie killing Cersei the way he killed the Mad King to stop the burning of Kings Landing, I am going to be very sad.

[conceptualinertia]

On 6/13/2016 at 0:16 AM, Arya Gendry said:

I love how in this show about dragons, white walkers, humans that can enter the bodies of animals, and a couple of people who have returned from the dead, no one can believe for a second that Arya could survive a stab wound. She was blind and regained her sight. She survived countless beatings from the Waif that would have sent any of us to the hospital for weeks. For whatever reason, be it FM magic or some inherited greatness, Arya is special. I believe this was Ja'qen's plan all along. He knew her suffering and he knew her skill and potential. He trained her so that she would be ready when she left, like he always knew she would.

 

I am pretty sure that after Ja'qen frees Arya and her friends in season 2 he specifically invites her to come to Braavos so she can be trained to kill the people on her list.  I always thought that this was a continuity error, but maybe not. Maybe the entire purpose of the training was not so she would become a faceless man but so that she could become Arya the avenging angel of the Stark family.

[JMJ]

8 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

I can't say I really enjoyed the shows interpretation of the FM arc, but it seem obvious what the symbolism of that scene between her and the Waif was. You could also say that Arya is looking at a choice, the Waif could be her future, she could be no one, an orphan with no home, a FM with no identity or she could be Arya, and Arya has a home, and family. Arya has often been someone else in the books, she has been running away from her self after all the tragedy as most children will do. Now she is ready to be Arya again. It's a simple choice but one she needed to make.

100% yes. Through 5 books, she has had so many alter egos: Arya Horseface, Arya Underfoot, Arry, Lumpyhead, Weasel, Nymeria, Nan,Squab, Salty, Cat of the Canals, Beth, The Blind Girl, The Ugly Little Girl, Mercy etc. This is the first time as far as I know Arya calls herself "Arya Stark of Winterfell".

[JMJ]

1 hour ago, conceptualinertia said:

I am pretty sure that after Ja'qen frees Arya and her friends in season 2 he specifically invites her to come to Braavos so she can be trained to kill the people on her list.  I always thought that this was a continuity error, but maybe not. Maybe the entire purpose of the training was not so she would become a faceless man but so that she could become Arya the avenging angel of the Stark family.

With Meryn Trant dead on the show, the only people left on her list are Cersei and Ilyn Payne (if you agree Arya has taken Sandor off her list). I wonder what the implications are. Is she headed straight for Cersei? Given Lady Crane's moving performance as Cersei, did that change Arya's plans about Cersei?

[olibar]

9 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

Arya Stark = Cat of the Canals = Kitty Pryde, ninja school and all.

The entire point of the FM plot on the show, was Arya learning to fight blind or in the Darkness. It's not about the Waif any which way, it's about Arya and the Darkness. In the books Arya uses the Darkness in the sub levels of KL to shield her after Ned dies, and in the Darkness she finds Dragons. Bran is told to not fear the Darkness but make it his armor, which we have seen with Arya as well. In the moment she flicks out the candle Arya becomes a Sword in the Darkness, sound familiar? It should. It's a relevant skill to the long night after all.

I can't say I really enjoyed the shows interpretation of the FM arc, but it seem obvious what the symbolism of that scene between her and the Waif was. You could also say that Arya is looking at a choice, the Waif could be her future, she could be no one, an orphan with no home, a FM with no identity or she could be Arya, and Arya has a home, and family. Arya has often been someone else in the books, she has been running away from her self after all the tragedy as most children will do. Now she is ready to be Arya again. It's a simple choice but one she needed to make.

I agree that this is the most logical and likely account of events, but I maintain that because we did not see Arya kill the Waif, it allows for a convenient loop hole should GRRM wish to have a major twist in the plot line.  These are face changing assassins, after all, and what better way to infiltrate Westrosi society than by being able to pretend to be the daughter of a prominent house (that is, other than actually having said daughter be a brainwashed tool of your own organization).   

Again, I don't think it's likely that this is the case, but it also possible, given the current text, that we got a switcheroo in the darkness, thus subverting the expected narrative and giving real consequence to Arya's decision to join and then leave the FM.  And if it is the case that we now have a FArya, then the surviving members of house Stark may be in grave danger.

[johndance]

On June 13, 2016 at 0:02 PM, Philpenn said:

Why wouldn't Danerys have Drogon burn the Harpy fleet as she was flying in?  Did she just not notice all the ships firing at her pyramid?

She literally just had a discussion with Daario about needing 1000 ships to get to Westeros. When you need ships and there are hundreds (however many) that just showed up, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to burn them. 

[Sansa's Hairnet]

4 hours ago, JMJ said:

With Meryn Trant dead on the show, the only people left on her list are Cersei and Ilyn Payne (if you agree Arya has taken Sandor off her list). I wonder what the implications are. Is she headed straight for Cersei? Given Lady Crane's moving performance as Cersei, did that change Arya's plans about Cersei?

Walder Frey is on her list... personally, that's the one I really want to see her get.

[My friend Alayne Arya mad]

Just a thought on "becoming no one."  Perhaps every faceless man has to kill another faceless man sent to kill them.  Being given to the many faced god and giving him the killer instead is perhaps how one becomes "no one."

[JMJ]

43 minutes ago, Sansa's Hairnet said:

Walder Frey is on her list... personally, that's the one I really want to see her get.

I believe that's show only, but yes, that would be a good one.