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I usually enjoy the show for what it is, but this episode tested my patience. 

Between Tyrion's cringey comedy hour (he is just NOT funny), Edmure being an absolute dick, and Arya's extremely underwhelming payoff, this season is quickly losing most of the goodwill it earned in the beginning. 

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1 hour ago, lancerman said:

LSH was put to rest tonight. So far her only significance in the book revolved around Jamie and Brienne.

-Jamie is going back to KL

-Brienne is going back North

-The BWB is around with no LSJ

All this tells me is that LSH's story is basically complete after whatever happens when Brienne brings Jamie to her.

Undead Cat was in GRRM's outline

she'll have a bigger role than whatever is happening between Jaime and Brienne 

basically whatever Beric does in the show would be your indicator of what alas does in the books 

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1 hour ago, Prince of Dragonstone said:

I don't understand why so many of you guys continue to clamor for Lady Stoneheart to be on this show. Jon Snow was just brought back from the dead. If Lady Stoneheart comes that will make two miraculous resurrections in one season. Don't you guys think that's a little much? A little too ham-fisted? 

This was my thought too. We've had a lot of characters return this season, plus Jon's Lazarus moment. To me, although I would love to see LSH, it would feel like they were doing too much of the same thing. I think it would be really bad for the show. 

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What's the deal with this show showing people die in the cruelest most disgusting ways but I can't see Stannis die, I can't see the Blackfish or Syrio die.  What gives?   I can see shaggy dog's head, but I can't see Greywind or Blackfish go down swinging.  

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I love how in this show about dragons, white walkers, humans that can enter the bodies of animals, and a couple of people who have returned from the dead, no one can believe for a second that Arya could survive a stab wound. She was blind and regained her sight. She survived countless beatings from the Waif that would have sent any of us to the hospital for weeks. For whatever reason, be it FM magic or some inherited greatness, Arya is special. I believe this was Ja'qen's plan all along. He knew her suffering and he knew her skill and potential. He trained her so that she would be ready when she left, like he always knew she would.

I'm not sure why Varys would go to Oldtown OR Dorne. Dorne has had no ships since Nymeria landed and burned them all. Perhaps Volantis, where Yara and Theon (seemingly) are? 

Tyrion/Grey Worm/MIssandei was so painful. Of all the time wasters, that is the worst. 

I love the Hound, and I have the greatest hope that he will get word of Ramsay's treatment of Sansa and kill him slowly. The Hound, killing the master of hounds...

I didn't hate the episode. I enjoyed the return of Beric and Thoros and the scenes between Jamie/Brienne, Jamie/Edmure, and especially Bronn/Pod. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Arya Gendry said:

I love how in this show about dragons, white walkers, humans that can enter the bodies of animals, and a couple of people who have returned from the dead, no one can believe for a second that Arya could survive a stab wound. She was blind and regained her sight. She survived countless beatings from the Waif that would have sent any of us to the hospital for weeks. For whatever reason, be it FM magic or some inherited greatness, Arya is special. I believe this was Ja'qen's plan all along. He knew her suffering and he knew her skill and potential. He trained her so that she would be ready when she left, like he always knew she would.

I'm not sure why Varys would go to Oldtown OR Dorne. Dorne has had no ships since Nymeria landed and burned them all. Perhaps Volantis, where Yara and Theon (seemingly) are? 

Tyrion/Grey Worm/MIssandei was so painful. Of all the time wasters, that is the worst. 

I love the Hound, and I have the greatest hope that he will get word of Ramsay's treatment of Sansa and kill him slowly. The Hound, killing the master of hounds...

I didn't hate the episode. I enjoyed the return of Beric and Thoros and the scenes between Jamie/Brienne, Jamie/Edmure, and especially Bronn/Pod. 

 

I'd love seeing the Hound kill Ramsay, this hadn't ever crossed my mind

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3 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

What's the deal with this show showing people die in the cruelest most disgusting ways but I can't see Stannis die, I can't see the Blackfish or Syrio die.  What gives?   I can see shaggy dog's head, but I can't see Greywind or Blackfish go down swinging.  

It appears they have no time nor budget to include these complicated action sequences. "Dying off screen" saves them the time and the budget for more important aspects to the show apparently. Such as tonight's episode: sticking your finger in someone's ass and then smelling it. More important to the story obviously.

The theater troupe is mocking this show as well as us, the viewers. The farting, the boobs, the "shit crowd", the writing/ideas, it's a commentary regarding everyone involved in this series.

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2 hours ago, Nymeria's pup said:

 And why for the love of the seven does Jamie still love Cersei? They have totally flattened his redemption arc.

Love is the death of duty and honor

- Maester Aemon

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21 minutes ago, Arya Gendry said:

I love how in this show about dragons, white walkers, humans that can enter the bodies of animals, and a couple of people who have returned from the dead, no one can believe for a second that Arya could survive a stab wound. She was blind and regained her sight. She survived countless beatings from the Waif that would have sent any of us to the hospital for weeks. For whatever reason, be it FM magic or some inherited greatness, Arya is special. I believe this was Ja'qen's plan all along. He knew her suffering and he knew her skill and potential. He trained her so that she would be ready when she left, like he always knew she would.

I'm not sure why Varys would go to Oldtown OR Dorne. Dorne has had no ships since Nymeria landed and burned them all. Perhaps Volantis, where Yara and Theon (seemingly) are? 

Tyrion/Grey Worm/MIssandei was so painful. Of all the time wasters, that is the worst. 

I love the Hound, and I have the greatest hope that he will get word of Ramsay's treatment of Sansa and kill him slowly. The Hound, killing the master of hounds...

I didn't hate the episode. I enjoyed the return of Beric and Thoros and the scenes between Jamie/Brienne, Jamie/Edmure, and especially Bronn/Pod. 

 

Dragons, white walkers and magic are all parts of this fantasy world. It's not hard to imagine these things existing in a similar universe, it's something that most people can suspend disbelief for. 

Arya both lost and regained her sight due to "magic". Bullshit? Basically, but at least it's an explanation. 

You're right that the beatings she endured should have sidelined her, but they were more in line with the realistic kind of hands-on training that a real person might endure. Certainly you can't compare that to what comes next.

Arya's stomach got stabbed out and she turned the blade in it man, hard. Arya is like a 100lb girl. There's just no way, I can't suspend disbelief, I don't think most people can. It's ridiculous.

Unless you're trying to make the point that because Arya is special she is some sort of demi-god, it doesn't work. It just doesn't account for how over the top it was. Game of Thrones is supposed to NOT be that show, you know, the one full of terrible cliches and etc.

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1 hour ago, Fredwin said:

The way the season was paced, it seemed like after episodes 3-5 things were about to go gangbusters, full throttle into new territory. Then it relapsed. It's like you can literally see the line in the script where they stopped knowing what exactly to write.

I completely agree.  I feel the passion has left the show too, they just want to finish.

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3 hours ago, Lady Sansa's Direwolf said:

How convenient - a drain for the blood in the middle of the floor. Must add that to my new house designs.

Actually, my house has one exactly like it. And probably for the same reason. The basement is below the level of the river and so water can seep in. There is a sump pump to squirt it out.

3 hours ago, Lady Sansa's Direwolf said:

Well, Jaime gave her Oathkeeper, so he does care for her too!

Yes and I get the feeling that it isn't really Cersei he is talking about when he is talking to Edmure. He convinces Edmure to raize the siege so that Brienne can escape.

We are getting the start of the redemption arc.

3 hours ago, Jaime4Brienne said:

No trial by combat...well Cersei is in a lot of trouble now.

As I said all along, no Cleganebowl because its too obvious. And also because everyone knows Cersei has the mountain. Bit of a mistake to let Frankengreggor pull the FM's head off.

2 hours ago, Chloe.a.thomson said:

Aria is pretty fit for someone who has just been stabbed in the gut.

I thought that. But notice how little she was limping in the house of B&W. It was a ruse to fool the Waif.

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

I think this is like the obvious conclusion. Without Stoneheart to keep him in the Riverlands longer, there is nothing to stop him from returning. Which all of sudden makes the plotline being pushed up to this season make more sense.

I am not sure that Jamie is returning to KL. I know it is what he said he would do. But he may not be too keen on just giving the castle to the Freys.

Another wildcard in the mix is that Walder may not be too keen on the fact that Ramsay murdered his son who was in the line of succession to WinterFell. Taking a Frey for a wife was one of the payoffs for the Red Wedding.

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Did anyone else immediately think of the Terminator when the waif was chasing Arya around like me?

 

and Arya was able to run around because she chugged down some liquid opium.  

Edited by SerJeremiahLouistark

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2 minutes ago, Zombies That Were Promised said:

I completely agree.  I feel the passion has left the show too, they just want to finish.

Yeah, I think they made that obvious by already announcing the end of the series. Apparently they're trying to lower everyone's expectations.

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LSH will not be appearing.  In the books she appeared a few days after the RW.  How much time has passed?  Its been a couple of years I believe.  She would be a shambling corpse.  I just do not see it going down.

On the Arya arc, I have to admit at first I saw several things I thought were holes in the Faceless men plot.  How is it your supposed to be 'no one' but the waif clearly isn't.  Jaqen has adapted a static identity each episode.   It could be that Jaqen has helped Arya on a path of self discovery, and she is more sure of herself now than ever before.   All the training as 'noone' could just have been toughening her up.  Who the hell knows.  There's still stuff I dont get, like them claiming you cannot kill whom you want, and that only death may pay for life, but they are an assassins guild, they get paid to kill, so clearly cash pays for death too.   I donno I hope the books develop that whole plot better than the show does.

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9 minutes ago, Arcuda said:

LSH will not be appearing.  In the books she appeared a few days after the RW.  How much time has passed?  Its been a couple of years I believe.  She would be a shambling corpse.  I just do not see it going down.

This is why I think Blackfish will take over for LSH, becoming...

Blackheart

9 minutes ago, Arcuda said:

On the Arya arc, I have to admit at first I saw several things I thought were holes in the Faceless men plot.  How is it your supposed to be 'no one' but the waif clearly isn't

9 minutes ago, Arcuda said:

  Jaqen has adapted a static identity each episode.   It could be that Jaqen has helped Arya on a path of self discovery, and she is more sure of herself now than ever before.   All the training as 'noone' could just have been toughening her up.

 

I think this was Jaqen's plan all along, and he used the Waif (whom he knew was not FM material) as a necessary casualty and gift for the many-faced God to instruct and educate Arya in becoming someone who could successfully carry out the assassinations of the names on her list.  

9 minutes ago, Arcuda said:

 

  Who the hell knows.  There's still stuff I dont get, like them claiming you cannot kill whom you want, and that only death may pay for life, but they are an assassins guild, they get paid to kill, so clearly cash pays for death too.   I donno I hope the books develop that whole plot better than the show does.

The books have already developed the plot much better than the trainwreck of terrible writing that has happened on the show (especially Dorne and Braavos).  

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I thought the episode most excellent and the tears of book snobs are most delicious. Its a TV series about ice zombies. Not Tolstoy.

Looks like we are safe from LSH and Cleganebowl, both of which would have sucked. Cleganebowl is way too obvious and it wouldn't be a Cleganebowl to Sandor as he knows the mountain is dead. 

The idea that there weren't enough on screen deaths is ridiculous. The Hound dispatches six people, four with an axe. We see three hang. But folk want to see the Blackfish and the Waif die on screen. WTF, you got a severed head! Oh and then there was the Mountain pulling another head clean off its body with his bare hands. And we saw the Waif kill Lady Crane.

10 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Did anyone else immediately think of the Terminator when the waif was chasing Arya around like me?

 

and Arya was able to run around because she chugged down some liquid opium.  

I thought of the terminator, yes definitely. And the chase was essentially a car chase on foot.

And yes, all roads are converging on Winterfell. In fact it would not surprise me to see Jamie end up going there as well to follow Brienne. 

The final battle with the WWs has to take place at Winterfell because if they get to Kings Landing, everyone is dead. All that is left in the KL plot is Tommen's death followed by Cersei's. The High Sparrow will die in Baylor Sept in episode 10.

It is of course not without irony that Cersei is about to suffer the same fate she attempted to inflict on Tyrion.

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7 minutes ago, hallam said:

I thought the episode most excellent and the tears of book snobs are most delicious. Its a TV series about ice zombies. Not Tolstoy.

Looks like we are safe from LSH and Cleganebowl, both of which would have sucked. Cleganebowl is way too obvious and it wouldn't be a Cleganebowl to Sandor as he knows the mountain is dead. 

The idea that there weren't enough on screen deaths is ridiculous. The Hound dispatches six people, four with an axe. We see three hang. But folk want to see the Blackfish and the Waif die on screen. WTF, you got a severed head! Oh and then there was the Mountain pulling another head clean off its body with his bare hands. And we saw the Waif kill Lady Crane.

I thought of the terminator, yes definitely. And the chase was essentially a car chase on foot.

And yes, all roads are converging on Winterfell. In fact it would not surprise me to see Jamie end up going there as well to follow Brienne. 

The final battle with the WWs has to take place at Winterfell because if they get to Kings Landing, everyone is dead. All that is left in the KL plot is Tommen's death followed by Cersei's. The High Sparrow will die in Baylor Sept in episode 10.

It is of course not without irony that Cersei is about to suffer the same fate she attempted to inflict on Tyrion.

The deaths of expendable characters like those you described are, ultimately, unimportant.  However, the deaths of ancillary characters like the Blackfish with meaning in the story are completely necessary and very important.  This is why book readers get pissed, because unsullied show watchers overlook important points like these.  

Edited by TheKingInTheNorth3

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I really hope George makes FM/HoBaW worthwhile.

While I am usually pro-show, this to me was the first time the show really seems to have laid a big turd on the books.

No way George leaves Braavos at that.

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7 minutes ago, Fredwin said:

Dragons, white walkers and magic are all parts of this fantasy world. It's not hard to imagine these things existing in a similar universe, it's something that most people can suspend disbelief for. 

Arya both lost and regained her sight due to "magic". Bullshit? Basically, but at least it's an explanation. 

You're right that the beatings she endured should have sidelined her, but they were more in line with the realistic kind of hands-on training that a real person might endure. Certainly you can't compare that to what comes next.

Arya's stomach got stabbed out and she turned the blade in it man, hard. Arya is like a 100lb girl. There's just no way, I can't suspend disbelief, I don't think most people can. It's ridiculous.

Unless you're trying to make the point that because Arya is special she is some sort of demi-god, it doesn't work. It just doesn't account for how over the top it was. Game of Thrones is supposed to NOT be that show, you know, the one full of terrible cliches and etc.

Maybe "magic" isn't the best term. Obviously the FM have some sort of superhuman ability. Ja'qen said that Arya was "no one," which I took to mean she had completed her training.So, she was a FM, at least for 30 seconds or so. 

So, do you think Melisandre brought Jon back to life after he was stabbed a million times, including in the heart? Because I don't. And Dany sat in a fire how? And the Hound survived his fall how? And Theon is alive...how? 

It's also entirely medically possible. People survive weird shit, like getting shot in the head with a nail gun. Giving birth is probably more dangerous. I don't know, really, it's just not a big hang up for me. 

 

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