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2 hours ago, Fredwin said:

This episode was the perfect illustration of how the show is coming off the tracks without GRRM's template.

The whole season is uneven, and they are hovering between the areas of the book where they explicitly know what happened, and kind of know from what the fanbase has figured out over the years.

Here we are a books worth of episodes past what is written on paper and we still have barely progressed the story. With the exception of Hodor(Which they were explicitly told about) everything that's happened(or been "confirmed") this season was already a mostly predicted outcome. We've had flashbacks, time-traveling(Riverrun, not Bran) and teleports en masse and we've yet to really move out of the Book Five comfort zone. 

Now they're saying there's only 14 episodes left, if that is the case, why did they botch so many storylines this year in the name of expediency? If there really are 14 episodes left, that means they are basically stalling until the very last set of episodes where they have a general idea of what the last character arcs will be, and it's so apparent.

I can't believe the entire season has been a build-up to the three conflicts that are the cliffhangers in A Dance with Dragons. The battle of Mereen, The battle of Winterfell, and Cersei vs. The Faith.



 

It's pretty interesting to speculate what George's contract with HBO says.

I get the strong sense that George will be much less inclined to co-operate and feed tidbits to the show now that it's overtaken TWoW.

So the show's going to become ever looser, except for major plot points that George may have been obliged to reveal (but which he surely can't be under any obligation to keep to re: his unwritten book).

Put it this way - it's in George's long-term literary interest to not lift a finger for the show any more - it's made him famous and rich, but like the WhiteWalkers, it's gotten out of control.

The worse the show is, the better TwoW and the last book(s) will look in the long term.

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There were some good dynamics in this episode. I liked Brienne and Blackfish together and how she explained things, it was well acted as was the Jaime/Edmure conversation. 

Seeing Dany return at that moment tells me one thing that I hope I am wrong about and I think we are all about to puke when it happens....

 

.... the season will end with yet another Dany moment after some long speech....

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2 hours ago, nara said:

Arya:  

I was kinda looking forward to seeing Arya play the role of Sansa.  I think that would have been hilarious!  Oh, well.  And farewell, Lady Crane. I really liked her, both as herself and as Cersei Lannister.  I laughed when I realized how violent she was (to her lovers and the other actress) beneath that sweet exterior--just like the real Cersei.  

I actually enjoyed the waif--how different Faye Marsay was in this role compared to her role as Anne Neville in The White Queen-- and enjoyed the chase scene.  It was good that they ended the chase with Arya striking out the candle and the episode with her declaration tgat she is Arya Stark.  I wonder if that's the last we've seen of her for this season.

 

Jaime:

Really glad to see Jaime back to his Kingslayer self, threatening Edmure's baby with the trebuchet and not pointing out that he had nothing to do with the Red Wedding.  He's owning his reputation.  I enjoyed that entire conversation between Jaime and Edmure.  It's amazing what you can do with 2 good actors. Given that they have chosen not to have a break between Cersei and Jaime, Jaime's dialogue, in particular, was spot on.  I agree with others that all the mentions of Cat have to mean something.  Also, the mention of "the things we do for love" took me back to the very first episode.  For some reason, that made me think that Jaime's time will be short.  Perhaps he will sacrifice himself for Brienne in some way...If the true war is with the Whitewalkers, maybe the Lannisters will be wiped out this season.

The reunion with Brienne and the Oathkeeper discussion was well done.  I think they are definitely setting it up for a future romance, though it's likely to be unconsummated or very brief (though I am not a Jaime/Brienne shipper at all.) However, I don't understand why Brienne would not know the Blackfish, nor he her.  They were both at Riverrun together with Cat and Robb...Or is that poor continuity on the part of the showrunners?  Glad they remembered that Bronn and Pod knew each other, at least.  Also, I think Jaime could have told Brienne that Oathkeeper was made from Ice and she should take it to Sansa.

I was disappointed that the Blackfish didn't go out in a blaze of glory.  It seemed anticlimactic that he died offscreen.

I wonder if Jaime will now be able to make it back to KL for Cersei's trial.

 

Tyrion:  

I wonder where Varys is going?  My guess is that it has something to do with the Sand Snakes (unfortunately).  

I was in agony during the drinking/joke scene, until he mentioned the brothel, jackass, and honeycomb.  Nice shout-out to Tyrion's first trial by combat in the Eyrie.  But seriously, what a waste of time.

 

Cersei:

I continue to love Cersei Lannister.  Of all the people in KL, she's the one I want to survive. Lena Headey delivers her lines so well.  "I choose violence."  Loved the look on Lancel's face when that man's head was ripped off.   I was hoping that Lancel would bite it--hopefully later.  I'm ready for Tommen and Kevan to die too.  I cannot believe that he is being such a jerk to his own mother! Burn them all!  I'm sad that we are being robbed of a trial by combat.  I guess things can change between now and then.  I was really hoping Cersei would get a Trial By Seven like in the Dunk and Egg novella. that would have been super cool to watch.  Interesting that the trial will be on the first day of the festival of the Mother.  Wonder if that will work in her favor.  I wonder if she will threaten to confess that Tommen is not the son of Robert Baratheon.  That might diminish the Faith too since they are now aligned with Tommen.

I assume the rumors have something to do with wildfire, but I thought Cersei was aware of that already?  I gotta go back to that episode in Season 2 to verify.  The other possibility is the rumors are related to secret passages through which she can escape and run to Casterly Rock, but that is less likely.

 

The Hound:

Glad he got his revenge.  Sad that CleganeBowl will apparently not be a thing.  When Beric said that cold winds are rising in the north, I thought for sure that it would come out that Sansa was back in the North and it would motivate Sandor somehow.  Perhaps Brienne will run into them soon and she'll mention it.  By the way, I didn't think the "previously on" showed anything about Beric and Thoros and that was probably confusing for a lot of people.

Brienne wasn't with Cat and Robb when they went to Riverrun. Jamie and Brienne parted company with Robb and Cat in "The Prince of Winterfell" (2.08). We didn't get to meet the Blackfish until "Walk of Punishment" (3.03).

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25 minutes ago, med1 said:

There were some good dynamics in this episode. I liked Brienne and Blackfish together and how she explained things, it was well acted as was the Jaime/Edmure conversation. 

Seeing Dany return at that moment tells me one thing that I hope I am wrong about and I think we are all about to puke when it happens....

 

.... the season will end with yet another Dany moment after some long speech....

One thing I actually liked about the Dany scene was that she didn't speak. "I am Daenarys Stromborn, yada yada yada, and I have just walked in the door."

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2 hours ago, Ser Matt Dayne said:

I'm not even going to bother complaining about those BwB renegadess. All I can say is....lol at myself for getting sucked in.

I'm with you. I feel stupid for actually thinking something great would come from that.

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Barristan butchered, Blackfish butchered, Stannis butchered, Martell's butchered gj :v.

Instead of giving us Blackfish epic fight scene we get Jaime and Brienne waving eachother brilliant stuff and Edmure bitching to Jaime how he wiped out his familly but still wants to chain his uncle and give him to the Frey's instead of letting  him get away.

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2 hours ago, mirjalovic said:

Syrio was hired to teach Arya "dancing". and now Arya officially a "dancer" for 15 seconds or so...

my thoughts exactly in that moment. :)

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*sigh*

They set up a very good Arya scene in the last episode. And they were tantalizingly close to delivering on it. But they didn't. I was waiting for Lady Crane to say something like "it's not as bad as it looks" or "good thing no organs were hit" or "you were well prepared with the padding and all, but you did get a few cuts we should have a look at". Just anything to hint that Arya's wounds turned out less serious than they appeared, that would excuse her running around again a day later. Put another way: if the wounds were never meant to be serious, they shouldn't show her be seriously wounded in the first place.

Upon rewatching, I'm less disappointed by the scene in her hideout, though. She's panting, can barely lift Needle at first... but she does reveal that she's less hurt than she appears, if only for a split second before cutting the candle. I think they could have afforded to give us another hint of Arya being in better shape than she appears, but watching the scene closely, she does pull off a feigned retreat reasonably well.

And I think we've seen the last of Arya for this season. There are very many plot threads left hanging, and only so much time to resolve them. I think we had our final Brienne/Pod scene too, and we could possibly have seen the last of Jaime. There's a lot of major plot left in the North, both with Jon/Sansa and Bran. Ideally, we should have the final Tower of Joy flashbacks too. Dorne set up something, but after the first two episodes it's been quiet. I think we will see Theon and Yara arrive in Meereen, maybe Sam arrive in Oldtown (or maybe they're leaving him off after he left Horn Hill), and lots of stuff in King's Landing. Not sure about Euron, the writers might have decided that "let's go kill them" is an adequate ending of the season for him. There should also be more stuff with the Hound, if only just a cliffhanger. The next two episodes will either be packed with short scenes, or some characters have finished their arcs already.

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8 hours ago, plectrum said:

OK, so I'm finally caught up with everyone.  Question for the group: does anyone else think that Jamie is coming home just in time to keep Cersei from torching KL with wildfire?  That would fulfill the valonqar prophecy, and it actually gives weight and purpose to his big "I love my sister" speech with Edmure.

He certainly foreshadowed it with his Cat and Cersei would do anything for their babies speech when mentioning burning cities to ash. Damn, they keep pushing it at us I almost don't want it to happen just for a twist, lol.

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5 hours ago, Zoe_H said:

Brienne wasn't with Cat and Robb when they went to Riverrun. Jamie and Brienne parted company with Robb and Cat in "The Prince of Winterfell" (2.08). We didn't get to meet the Blackfish until "Walk of Punishment" (3.03).

Thank you for clarifying that point.

 

1 hour ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

And I think we've seen the last of Arya for this season. There are very many plot threads left hanging, and only so much time to resolve them. I think we had our final Brienne/Pod scene too, and we could possibly have seen the last of Jaime. There's a lot of major plot left in the North, both with Jon/Sansa and Bran. Ideally, we should have the final Tower of Joy flashbacks too. Dorne set up something, but after the first two episodes it's been quiet. I think we will see Theon and Yara arrive in Meereen, maybe Sam arrive in Oldtown (or maybe they're leaving him off after he left Horn Hill), and lots of stuff in King's Landing. Not sure about Euron, the writers might have decided that "let's go kill them" is an adequate ending of the season for him. There should also be more stuff with the Hound, if only just a cliffhanger. The next two episodes will either be packed with short scenes, or some characters have finished their arcs already

I got the impression that the next episode would be very focused, like Blackwater was. I think that means the final one will have a ton of scenes, which is why they supersized it.

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9 hours ago, Nymeria's pup said:

And why for the love of the seven does Jamie still love Cersei? They have totally flattened his redemption arc.

Yes! This is what bothers me the most. I can only think that Jamie is the valonquar, and that the show is setting it up to be more dramatic/painful for him because he still loves her. 

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6 hours ago, Ser Matt Dayne said:

I'm not even going to bother complaining about those BwB renegadess. All I can say is....lol at myself for getting sucked in.

I'm with you. I feel stupid for actually thinking something great would come from that.

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2 hours ago, maegiithefrog said:

Yes! This is what bothers me the most. I can only think that Jamie is the valonquar, and that the show is setting it up to be more dramatic/painful for him because he still loves her. 

Exactly. I think for television purposes, it is better storytelling to have him kill someone he loves than slowly drift away from her.  I remember being appalled when reading the books that Jaime never confronted Cersei about her affairs.  He just left her to probably die.  It would be even worse to do that in a visual medium like television. Also, the show introduces things as they become necessary, unlike the books, which plant seeds at various times to grow and flower at the right time.  Finally, if the show loses either one of them before late into the final season, it would deflate the series IMO, because they are 2 of the best and most experienced actors in the show. The books don't necessarily have the same issue, because both Jaime and Cersei were later POV characters. Also, the death of Cersei Lannister would signify the end of this round of the game of thrones and a focus on the war with the WWs.  Not sure that a whole season of the WWs would be that interesting. 

Edited by nara
typo and new content

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1 hour ago, nara said:

Exactly. I think for television purposes, it is better storytelling to have him kill someone he loves than slowly drift away from her.  I remember being appalled when reading the books that Jaime never confronted Cersei about her affairs.  He just left her to probably die.  It would be even worse to do that in a visual medium like television. Also, the show introduces things as they become necessary, unlike the books, which plant seeds at various times to grow and flower at the right time.  Finally, if the show loses either one of them before late into the final season, it would deflate the series IMO, because they are 2 of the best and most experienced actors in the show. The books don't necessarily have the same issue, because both Jaime and Cersei were later POV characters. Also, the death of Cersei Lannister would signify the end of this round of the game of thrones and a focus on the war with the WWs.  Not sure that a whole season of the WWs would be that interesting. 

Yes, exactly. By the end of what we have in the books so far, Jaime's basically somewhat broken, muttering about Lancel, the Kettleblacks, etc. I'll have to admit that having Jaime still have passionate feelings about Cersei is probably better TV drama for the inevitable confrontation. They are definitely setting this up. Did you all catch Jaime restating "the things we do for love," this time to Edmure.

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Arya: I was SO disappointed that in the end, Arya was just careless in letting the Waif get to her. How can she have done all that, and, even though in the end she killed the Waif, Jaqen says she is "finally no one"? Seems like low standards to be a FM

BWB: They spent that whole scene telegraphing some big event involving them. The whole Beric has been brought back for a purpose, and Sandor being given the ability to fight. And will Brienne Pod meet these guys? Will the Blackfish end up taking the LSH role? Or will their boat end up wherever Gendry is?  It's just not clear where this one is headed.

Meereen: Why does Dany just have Drogon drop her off at the top of the pyramid? Wouldn't she be better off having him wait for her? Or has she learnt how to call for him, ala Uber? I'm guessing the Iron Fleet will show up behind the Harpies' fleet and rout them from the rear. I presume Varys is either heading to Dorne to ally their support, and perhaps activate the Bird network to get Kevan?

KL: seems like the wildfire theory has just become all the more likely.

 

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