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Why wouldn't Danerys have Drogon burn the Harpy fleet as she was flying in?  Did she just not notice all the ships firing at her pyramid?

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15 minutes ago, Philpenn said:

Why wouldn't Danerys have Drogon burn the Harpy fleet as she was flying in?  Did she just not notice all the ships firing at her pyramid?

Good question. One possibility is that she want's as many ships saved for her fleet, so burning them wouldn't do anything. The second possibility is that the writers didn't think of that possibility.

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14 hours ago, Chloe.a.thomson said:
16 minutes ago, Philpenn said:

Why wouldn't Danerys have Drogon burn the Harpy fleet as she was flying in?  Did she just not notice all the ships firing at her pyramid?

I'm  hoping she figures out a way to kill all of the people on the ships without destroying the ships.She could use them to sail to Westeros.

 

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3 minutes ago, JMJ said:

Good question. One possibility is that she want's as many ships saved for her fleet, so burning them wouldn't do anything. The second possibility is that the writers didn't think of that possibility.

Ooh ooh I know, because D&D asked her not to have Drogon burn it down so the Greyjoys can swoop in and save the day.  

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9 hours ago, Hos the Hostage said:

There were a lot of oranges for sale in Braavos - was it a dig at Lemongate?

What hole? I appears to come and go as need be. It's a portal to a world of blood that hurts or doesn't hurt and bleeds and doesn't bleed.

Actually did you notice they showed one orange with blood on it? To show Arya was bleeding, but all I could think of was "splat" and Doran Martell.

35 minutes ago, JMJ said:

Arya: I was SO disappointed that in the end, Arya was just careless in letting the Waif get to her. How can she have done all that, and, even though in the end she killed the Waif, Jaqen says she is "finally no one"? Seems like low standards to be a FM

BWB: They spent that whole scene telegraphing some big event involving them. The whole Beric has been brought back for a purpose, and Sandor being given the ability to fight. And will Brienne Pod meet these guys? Will the Blackfish end up taking the LSH role? Or will their boat end up wherever Gendry is?  It's just not clear where this one is headed.

Meereen: Why does Dany just have Drogon drop her off at the top of the pyramid? Wouldn't she be better off having him wait for her? Or has she learnt how to call for him, ala Uber? I'm guessing the Iron Fleet will show up behind the Harpies' fleet and rout them from the rear. I presume Varys is either heading to Dorne to ally their support, and perhaps activate the Bird network to get Kevan?

KL: seems like the wildfire theory has just become all the more likely.

 

I would say it's a good chance Brienne and Pod meet the Brotherhood. "I survived tougher girls than you" was probably the one quote that had me laughing, The Hound gives a shout out to Brienne.

Balckfish=Blackheart. Could be, or they just skip it. Beric wants to head North and he wants the Hound to fight with the Brotherhood (Sansa/ Hound reunion). Beric is indicating the Others are coming. And what he tells the hound fills in the ideas of the Watch in some ways. A chance for redemption. Hound/Watch and Hound/Sansa, I am down for that. Blackfishheart, not so much, but it could happen. Given both are basically headed to the same place, it seems likely for a Brienne/Hound reunion.

Drogon is probably not going far, I think the idea was to get him and her in a frame for the characters to see. It's just a shot. Heck Drogon could be flying out over the bay to scare the daylights out of the slavers. Those idiots got no idea what's coming for them. She is going to cut the Dragons and the Dothraki loose, and yeah the Iron Born probably arrive, Hammer and the Anvil. No escape for those guys.

Varys is totally headed to Dorne, though I doubt he needs to activate the Little birds, just collect intel from them. Kev could be a dead man, but if they are doing the Wildfire plot, no point in Varys offing him on the show. 

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1 minute ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Ooh ooh I know, because D&D asked her not to have Drogon burn it down so the Greyjoys can swoop in and save the day.  

Ha.

Instead, Dany just has Drogon drop her off at the Pyramid. "Be a dear and come pick me up in an hour or so, Drogon".

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28 minutes ago, Philpenn said:

Why wouldn't Danerys have Drogon burn the Harpy fleet as she was flying in?  Did she just not notice all the ships firing at her pyramid?

Because they are saving the battle of Meereen for episode 10 and not the last few minutes of episode 8.

 

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2 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Because they are saving the battle of Meereen for episode 10 and not the last few minutes of episode 8.

 

Agreed.

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44 minutes ago, Philpenn said:

Why wouldn't Danerys have Drogon burn the Harpy fleet as she was flying in?  Did she just not notice all the ships firing at her pyramid?

A dragon is fairly invulnerable to arrows fired on it from underneath. A girl in a dress sitting on top of it is not. Better to leave Drogon to take out the ships alone, than to stay on top of him as a very soft and high-value target.

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So.... This episode feels like that time I was in highschool and I studied really hard for a chemistry test, and I was certain that all the stars had aligned and I was going to get an A at least, only to get my test back and get like... maybe a 67%... not complete failure, but a complete disappointment considering all the emotional build up I had- and enough I wanted to go home and cry in a pillow. This episode wasn't the worst... but I just feel let down by so much. 

1. Arya: THERE IS NO WAY SHE SHOULD BE ALIVE. 
Now... even if I could swallow that maybe it was just a flesh wound- I feel like it was a complete waste of time to have her go to the actress for help. I understand that was the only person other than the FM that she knew at that point- but what purpose did it serve? There was no character development... she says that weird thing about wanting to go west of Westeros- and in the end the Waif kills the actress... but we as an audience I don't think were emotionally invested in the actress enough to care. 

The runaway scene made no sense either. Again... assuming Arya is not bleeding out... what kind of Assassin makes that much of a mess and noise in the middle of a busy city. Wouldn't it have been alot cooler just for Arya to have returned to her hiding place with needle and have had some dramatic fighting scene in the dark. 

I did like the payoff at the end when Arya put her face on the wall, and the candle going out- but it would have been nice to see her killed on screen... Especially after all the times we had to watch Arya get her butt kicked on screen. 

I am happy to see she will be going back to Winterfell at least... but this episode feels like a lackluster finale to a lackluster arc for one of my favorite characters. 

2. The hound/bwb/lsh: I do think it was OK to him to meet back up with the BWB and I hope he sticks with them for a while. 

I do feel that the scene with him peeing into the river was a message to book readers though- that being "guess who we're NOT going to be finding in the river anytime soon." I mean... we already know that the House is a jerk... so him peeing while talking to them wasn't needed to get that across.... I genuinely feel that it was a message to us. 

In reality though... if they were going to bring her back they should have like 2 seasons ago. Now that everyone seems to be leaving the river lands what would the point be? 

3. Tyrion and Danny: 
I was half tempted to skip Tyrion's scenes. The bad writing is only half of the problem... the second half is he has no one to play off of. Varys was the closest one... but with them being best buds now there's not as much intrigue and bickering and now he's left even.  He has no enemies, he has no friends, he has no real reason to be emotionally invested in this plot at all. 

When Danny showed up and just walked in the door not even saying a word I didn't even know how to react. 
There was no emotional build up to it, there was no epic reveal, no amazing speach.... nothing..

I'd compare to one of those cheesy soap operas... if Rodrigo was lost on an island for years and his lover Maria was lost in depression about it. One day Maria wakes up and just finds Rodrigo eating a breakfast burrito and watching netflix in his boxers on her couch. Sure its surprising... but is that really what we the audience wanted to get out of that scene. 

4. Riverrun

Brienne meeting Jaime after so long was one of the only things I feel they did right in the episode- from their discussion together to their waves goodbye at the end. Podrick meeting back up with Bronn was cute as well. The scene between Edmure and Jaime was also well done---- although I still have a hard time accepting his love for Cersei still when at this point in the book he should be burning her letter begging for help. 

What I didn't approve of though was the Blackfish deciding to commit suicide rather than go help his neice in any capacity. Maybe he feels guilty that they lost the castle and if he had just agreed with Brienne things would have been 1000000% times better for him---- but with this Brienne accomplished nothing. What was the point of her entire plot this season if she couldn't get a single person to come back with her. Maybe she will run into the BWB and the hound and go north with them? 

5. Kingslanding: 

Cersei had this coming, but it was pretty funny. 
You know... maybe if she ever told Tommen ANYTHING he would have a better idea of how to keep his mom alive. 
I'm just waiting for the scene where she tells Tommen: "You know... Jaime is your dad- and If I'm found guilty at trial you're pretty much screwed too kido... thanks for getting rid of the one way out of this---- but I guess we can just fulfill the prophecy and all die together! Infact lets just roast everyone while we're at it. You remember that poison I almost gave you when Stannis attacked like 4 seasons ago.... we can go have a party with that while they all burn." 

 



 

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9 minutes ago, Bluesnow said:

So.... This episode feels like that time I was in highschool and I studied really hard for a chemistry test, and I was certain that all the stars had aligned and I was going to get an A at least, only to get my test back and get like... maybe a 67%... not complete failure, but a complete disappointment considering all the emotional build up I had- and enough I wanted to go home and cry in a pillow. This episode wasn't the worst... but I just feel let down by so much. 

1. Arya: THERE IS NO WAY SHE SHOULD BE ALIVE. 
Now... even if I could swallow that maybe it was just a flesh wound- I feel like it was a complete waste of time to have her go to the actress for help. I understand that was the only person other than the FM that she knew at that point- but what purpose did it serve? There was no character development... she says that weird thing about wanting to go west of Westeros- and in the end the Waif kills the actress... but we as an audience I don't think were emotionally invested in the actress enough to care. 

The runaway scene made no sense either. Again... assuming Arya is not bleeding out... what kind of Assassin makes that much of a mess and noise in the middle of a busy city. Wouldn't it have been alot cooler just for Arya to have returned to her hiding place with needle and have had some dramatic fighting scene in the dark. 

I did like the payoff at the end when Arya put her face on the wall, and the candle going out- but it would have been nice to see her killed on screen... Especially after all the times we had to watch Arya get her butt kicked on screen. 

I am happy to see she will be going back to Winterfell at least... but this episode feels like a lackluster finale to a lackluster arc for one of my favorite characters. 

2. The hound/bwb/lsh: I do think it was OK to him to meet back up with the BWB and I hope he sticks with them for a while. 

I do feel that the scene with him peeing into the river was a message to book readers though- that being "guess who we're NOT going to be finding in the river anytime soon." I mean... we already know that the House is a jerk... so him peeing while talking to them wasn't needed to get that across.... I genuinely feel that it was a message to us. 

In reality though... if they were going to bring her back they should have like 2 seasons ago. Now that everyone seems to be leaving the river lands what would the point be? 

3. Tyrion and Danny: 
I was half tempted to skip Tyrion's scenes. The bad writing is only half of the problem... the second half is he has no one to play off of. Varys was the closest one... but with them being best buds now there's not as much intrigue and bickering and now he's left even.  He has no enemies, he has no friends, he has no real reason to be emotionally invested in this plot at all. 

When Danny showed up and just walked in the door not even saying a word I didn't even know how to react. 
There was no emotional build up to it, there was no epic reveal, no amazing speach.... nothing..

I'd compare to one of those cheesy soap operas... if Rodrigo was lost on an island for years and his lover Maria was lost in depression about it. One day Maria wakes up and just finds Rodrigo eating a breakfast burrito and watching netflix in his boxers on her couch. Sure its surprising... but is that really what we the audience wanted to get out of that scene. 

4. Riverrun

Brienne meeting Jaime after so long was one of the only things I feel they did right in the episode- from their discussion together to their waves goodbye at the end. Podrick meeting back up with Bronn was cute as well. The scene between Edmure and Jaime was also well done---- although I still have a hard time accepting his love for Cersei still when at this point in the book he should be burning her letter begging for help. 

What I didn't approve of though was the Blackfish deciding to commit suicide rather than go help his neice in any capacity. Maybe he feels guilty that they lost the castle and if he had just agreed with Brienne things would have been 1000000% times better for him---- but with this Brienne accomplished nothing. What was the point of her entire plot this season if she couldn't get a single person to come back with her. Maybe she will run into the BWB and the hound and go north with them? 

5. Kingslanding: 

Cersei had this coming, but it was pretty funny. 
You know... maybe if she ever told Tommen ANYTHING he would have a better idea of how to keep his mom alive. 
I'm just waiting for the scene where she tells Tommen: "You know... Jaime is your dad- and If I'm found guilty at trial you're pretty much screwed too kido... thanks for getting rid of the one way out of this---- but I guess we can just fulfill the prophecy and all die together! Infact lets just roast everyone while we're at it. You remember that poison I almost gave you when Stannis attacked like 4 seasons ago.... we can go have a party with that while they all burn." 

 



 

I was thinking the same thing when he was pissing in the river.  It was D&D pissing on Stoneheart.  

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12 minutes ago, Bluesnow said:

1. Arya: THERE IS NO WAY SHE SHOULD BE ALIVE. 

I know, right? It made absolutely no sense. And it was CLEARLY not a flesh wound. She shouldn't be able to run like she did; in fact we've seen less important characters die from wounds less deadly than that. The theories on this site about it made more sense that what actually happened. Bad, bad writing.

15 minutes ago, Bluesnow said:

I do feel that the scene with him peeing into the river was a message to book readers though- that being "guess who we're NOT going to be finding in the river anytime soon."

Same here.

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@Bluesnow Jaime still being in love with Cersei is irritating, I keep hoping for something to happen and he finally snaps. But Jaime might have exaggerated his love towards Cersei while talking to Edmure, because Jaime's aim was to break Edmure in any way possible - better to threaten to kill him and his family than actually kill the Tullys and breaking his oath to Catelyn. Jaime tried his best not to take arms with Blackfish (he looks disappointed knowing that Blackfish died fighting). I think Brienne's presence in the castle was also a strong motivation for him avoid the bloodshed - in the books we can know what is going on through his mind, but it is not possible to show it on TV - so they used Jaime's feelings for Brienne. After Edmure lowers his head, we see Jaime looking satisfied - he know he has Edmure, which means he can win Riverrun without taking up arms.

tl;dr Show!Jaime still loves Cersei, but he also cared about Brienne and his oath to Catelyn.

Edited by Hos the Hostage

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Thoughts while watching:

 - Credit to the show for not doing Cleganebowl, something I never particularly wanted to see.

 - Stop trying to make Cersei sympathetic. I don't care how much you like her or how much Lena Heady seems to like her; she isn't a sympathetic character. Though I will give them this - Tommen being persuaded to end trial by combat and force his mother to face her charges directly was a decent add.

 - I didn't think the show was clever enough to pull off a Fight Club deal with the Waif, and I didn't think the show was clever enough to pull off a fake Arya, but I did think the show was clever enough (or at least cynical enough) to have Tyrion's politicking with the masters earlier in the season prove to be the wiser course than trying to remake the world overnight via conquest and violence. But nope! Deals always fall apart and violence is the way to solve everything (except those times when we tell you it isn't).

 - Edmure Tully being released with a proposition, having a private talk with his uncle that we aren't privy to, and have it all end with the Tullys surrendering Riverrun but ensuring the Blackfish escapes to fight another day? Nah, how 'bout Edmure just caves immediately, proves willing to give his uncle up to the Lannisters, and that uncle dies off-screen? Pointless re-writing.

 - The Waif was poorly portrayed in the show, Arya's injury was awkwardly handled, her whole storyline is inferior to what they had as source material...but that has to be my favorite last line of any episode this season.

Overall: I'm gonna skip ahead to the preview they showed for Episode 9 if I may:

Spoiler

I said after Jon was revived that I enjoyed the way that they handled his return in the episode immediately following, but that the follow-up would make a huge difference. Now that I've thought on it - the sheer impossibility of revival was never made impressive enough, and they haven't really done anything to endear Jon to his host the way that they had Robb endear himself to his. They also haven't given Jon any opportunity to properly shake off the jitters of his return. And I can't help but feel that's going to undercut the impact of what we're going to see next week.

 

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What a thoroughly disappointing episode this was. We are eight episodes into the season and nothing has happened. It's continued to introduce or reintroduce characters which has watered down the story lines of the usual characters. 

Why did the Riverun story line take about twenty minutes when in the end all we got was a dead blackfish (even though he promised so much) and a poor character in Edmure?

The mountain's scene was good but only lasted a few moments - we haven't seen anything close to his potential!

I like the Arya character but seeing he get stabbed and fixed well enough to fight was ridiculous (unless i'm missing something here and it was all a trick?)

The hound was good but after being brought back so late in the season can he have any major part to play?

The whole Mareen storyline is becoing boring (apart from Tyrion) who is great in every scene. There is part of me that's starting to tire of Dany and her lack of action. Whys should she be queen?

All in all it was another disappointing episode.  

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Just a thought regarding the Mereen scene:

When Yara/Theon escaped the Iron Islands after the Kingsmoot, it looked like they took a fairly decent sized crew and a large number of ships with them. I think the ironborn's raiding and plundering tactics could prove useful in nullifying and securing the rest of the Harpy fleet (hopefully while leaving the ships in tact). 

Of course, the dragons might blow them all up and it will all be for naught...who knows what kind of wacky scheme D&D have cooked up at this point.

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IMO Arya's wounds were not fatal, because the Waif did not want them to be fatal.  The Waif was toying with her.  She wanted to draw out the kill and terrorize Arya before she killed her.  She was "playing with her food" and got GOT! AND she did not die because she's Bat-Arya <said in Christian Bale's Batman voice>!

One additional point, and I am not exactly comparing show and the books, I do not wish to wade into that argument.  But the point I do wish to make  does touch on book versus show a little.  I am a little bummed that so many things (Jon, Dany, Sandor, Arya) have (probably) been spoiled now that the show has gotten a little ahead of the books.  

The pity of that is that I think that George would have revealed things slower and with more detail and logical foundation than is possible for TV.  I am not complaining about how the show does it, D&D have way more hits IMO than misses.  I think it sucks that GRRM did not get to tell it first.  He brought it on himself, but...    

I just wonder if the (potential) foreknowledge from the show will negatively impact the experience of the book.  Foreknowledge from the books has never bothered me watching the show, but now the foot is in the other shoe.  

My personal philosophy of adaptions has always been: the source material is the truth, adaptations are  what happens when people try to tell the story later and lies, exaggerations and honest mistakes get mixed in.  In my mind that makes it is easy to reconcile the differences.  That's life, nobody tells a perfect story...

Now though, that model is turned on it's head...sort of.  D&D put their version in my head first.  I logically know that GRRM is still the "truth", but for the first time he is not getting there first!  It is a little weird.   

 

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This is just the very beginning of a theory that I hope to expand on later, but what if we didn't see the fight last night because the waif won and stole Arya's face.

So it was the Waif who finally became "no one" by killing Arya and taking her face.

And she has taken Arya's face to do the will of the House of Black and White in Westeros.

The House of B&W couldn't turn Arya to their will.  So they are impersonating her instead to achieve their goals.

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