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TheGreenBell

What is Edmure doing?

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Edmure survived and so did the Tully name through him and his child, nothing more to it than that.

Blackfish got the end that was coming to him by going all kamikaze and by showing indifference to the life of the Lord of Riverun.

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31 minutes ago, Ludo Kressh said:

And the Blackfish told the Freys to slit his nephew's throat...for a pile of rocks in a river and the argument he had with the Tully commander about letting Edmure in. And you clearly see the resentment on Edmure's face when he came in and saw his uncle. And I'm sure handing over the Blackfish was part of the terms Jaime and the Freys laid down and not necessarily Edmure's idea.

Yea thats the same thing I was thinking. BF told the Freys to slice his throat so why would Edmure care about BF life. He traded the castle to save his baby and wife. Not everyone chooses honor when it comes to life 

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Edmure forgot that F is for "Family", not for "Fuck the Blackfish"

Look, I get that they wanted to get rid of the Blackfish because maybe he's got no big role to play in the future. I get that handing over the Blackfish was likely one of the terms Jaime forced Edmure to accept before he left the tent. 

But it didn't have to be like that. D&D are the writers, they could've done without that. They could've done without that Edmure line about finding the Blackfish and bringing him in irons. That line was totally unnecessary, it damn near ruined Edmure's character for good. 

And they didn't have to give the Blackfish an offscreen death either. It didn't offend me as much, but it was a bad decision to put it in an episode where we got another offscreen death/payoff with Arya. 

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5 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Edmure forgot that F is for "Family", not for "Fuck the Blackfish"

Look, I get that they wanted to get rid of the Blackfish because maybe he's got no big role to play in the future. I get that handing over the Blackfish was likely one of the terms Jaime forced Edmure to accept before he left the tent. 

But it didn't have to be like that. D&D are the writers, they could've done without that. They could've done without that Edmure line about finding the Blackfish and bringing him in irons. That line was totally unnecessary, it damn near ruined Edmure's character for good. 

And they didn't have to give the Blackfish an offscreen death either. It didn't offend me as much, but it was a bad decision to put it in an episode where we got another offscreen death/payoff with Arya. 

Yea I had a problem with his death but why does Edmure care about BF? He had a knife to his throat and BF told the Frey's to slice it. Maybe them introducing the BWB will bring the BF back. Maybe not though

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3 minutes ago, FingerlittleGood said:

Yea I had a problem with his death but why does Edmure care about BF? He had a knife to his throat and BF told the Frey's to slice it. Maybe them introducing the BWB will bring the BF back. Maybe not though

Because Edmure was a dead man anyway, as far as the Blackfish knew. I really doubt the Freys offered Edmure the same terms as Jaime.

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26 minutes ago, FingerlittleGood said:

Yea I had a problem with his death but why does Edmure care about BF? He had a knife to his throat and BF told the Frey's to slice it. Maybe them introducing the BWB will bring the BF back. Maybe not though

Blackfish saw through Black Walder's bluff and told him to do it 'cause he wouldn't have done it anyway. Apparently the Freys' folly had been already going on for some time so Edmure's death threat didn't sound quite convincing anymore.
But a man, who has been at the wrong end of the rope for days, is quite unlikely to bother thinking about such.

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50 minutes ago, Lady Kitty Heartless said:

Blackfish saw through Black Walder's bluff and told him to do it 'cause he wouldn't have done it anyway. Apparently the Freys' folly had been already going on for some time so Edmure's death threat didn't sound quite convincing anymore.
But a man, who has been at the wrong end of the rope for days, is quite unlikely to bother thinking about such.

Blackfish could have cared less about Edmure. He would have never traded the castle for Edmure's life no matter if he believed Jamie or Frey's would have kept their word. Blackfish was never a fan of Edmure you could tell that in the scene Edmure kept missing his fathers boat (when his body was sent out to sea) with the fire arrow. Blackfish cared nothing for him so in return Edmure did the same to his Uncle 

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3 hours ago, Señor de la Tormenta said:

They changed that because they want to get rid of as many characters as possible. They dont want us wondering and complaining about where is the BF and what is he doing.

Isn't it obvious? Instead of searching for logic in characters' behaviour ppl should think for the real reason things keep happening in the show: UnWriters trying to get shit together and failing. 

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The fact that he did this to save his "kid and wife," is annoying. He hasn't met his kid. His kid will be a pawn used by the Frey's to control him or the Lannisters to manipulate him. He acts like he'll be able to actually be with his wife anytime soon. His betrayal of the BF goes to a new level and in my opinion is almost like kin slaying since he knew his uncle wouldn't surrender but he did it anyway (but then again kin slaying is all the rage lately). He didn't even bother speaking to the BF when he entered the castle. Then the Bf dies off screen in the most anti-climatic way possible. Such a frustrating situation.

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1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Edmure forgot that F is for "Family", not for "Fuck the Blackfish"

Look, I get that they wanted to get rid of the Blackfish because maybe he's got no big role to play in the future. I get that handing over the Blackfish was likely one of the terms Jaime forced Edmure to accept before he left the tent. 

But it didn't have to be like that. D&D are the writers, they could've done without that. They could've done without that Edmure line about finding the Blackfish and bringing him in irons. That line was totally unnecessary, it damn near ruined Edmure's character for good. 

And they didn't have to give the Blackfish an offscreen death either. It didn't offend me as much, but it was a bad decision to put it in an episode where we got another offscreen death/payoff with Arya. 

I had the same fucken feeling that :" where my niece and nephew? Lets go MURDURR them!"  So out of place.

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1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Edmure forgot that F is for "Family", not for "Fuck the Blackfish"

Look, I get that they wanted to get rid of the Blackfish because maybe he's got no big role to play in the future. I get that handing over the Blackfish was likely one of the terms Jaime forced Edmure to accept before he left the tent. 

But it didn't have to be like that. D&D are the writers, they could've done without that. They could've done without that Edmure line about finding the Blackfish and bringing him in irons. That line was totally unnecessary, it damn near ruined Edmure's character for good. 

And they didn't have to give the Blackfish an offscreen death either. It didn't offend me as much, but it was a bad decision to put it in an episode where we got another offscreen death/payoff with Arya. 

I don't think it ruined his character at all.  I think it was pretty clear in the books as well as on the show that their relationship was not good at all.  On top of that Edmure for all intents and purposes is kind of a dink. He doesn't seem all that intelligent and the decisions that he has made have been piss poor.  Frankly, Edmure disliked his Uncle as his Uncle disliked him.

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Up to this episode, I thought that the Blackfish was the gruff uncle who cared about his nephew nonetheless. Sure, he disparaged him before, he had no patience for his goofiness, he even told the Freys to slit his throat - when you still could interpret this like the book-like 'just do it already, I know you're not going to let him live'. But this episode ruined him and ruined Edmure. It's ruined right in the moment hen Edmure shows up at the gate, clearly alone, demands entry, and Blackfish starts a pissing contest about who is the lord.

I mean, this guy let Brienne to enter, negotiated with the Kingslayer, and now is refusing to talk to the rightful Lord of the Riverrun?

And, let's quote that Frey, if Jaime was wrong, it could be the moment they freed their most valuable prisoner.

Blackfish got a gift, he got the chance to plot with Edmure, he got his nephew returned, it would be a good thing for them both... if he actually cared about anything other than being the one calling the shots. They made him a stubborn old fool. They made him not the guyt who was just a realist about Edmure's chances to survive before, no, he really meant he would be better off without him, just kill my nephew, so I could be the uncontested boss.

They made Blackfish pathetic, one dimentional, and they gave him a humiliating death in hands of the Tully soldiers.

Now, Edmure had a better excuse to screw Blackfish over, but it still came off as spiteful. The final impression of the House Tully members? Two resentful guys willing to throw each other under the Lannister bus on the spot. 'Family, Duty, Honor' is as much of a joke now as the Martell's words now.

The ruined the siege, ruined the Tullys, ruined negotiations, and killed the conclusion too, because in story there was a point to be made about taking Riverrun without bloodshed. But sure, screw that. Let's fill in with cheap drama instead.

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They made the Blackfish much more of a suicidal asshole than in the books, that is quite impressive.

Of course, given that Jaime was ready to let the Blackfish go North with his army, his threats to Edmure seemed pointless. He should have just offerred him the same deal as you did to the Blackfish, That would have been much more plausible Tully men just surrendering to the Freys and Lannisters without any guarantees for their lives just because their lord said so. They were perfectly willing to obey the Blackfish while Edmure was about to be hanged in front of them.

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18 minutes ago, White Harbors Wrath said:

You can't cite one scene and then completely ignore the scene where Blackfish tells Cat that Edmure is his nephew and he loves him regardless.

Yea no doubt he loved him but it was obvious Blackfish was not going to give up the castle even if they sliced his throat and BF was willing to let him die rather than give up the castle. Pretty obvious BF didn't think to highly of his nephew and in return Edmure gave up Blackfish for his family's and his own life. Looking at it through Edmure POV he was giving up BF (who could care less if they killed him) in exchange for the castle and saving alot of lives. Jaime told him he would kill every Tully and Edmure knew the castle would fall anyway. He sacrificed BF who could have cared less if they slit his throat for alot of lives. Smart move 

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19 minutes ago, FingerlittleGood said:

Yea no doubt he loved him but it was obvious Blackfish was not going to give up the castle even if they sliced his throat and BF was willing to let him die rather than give up the castle. Pretty obvious BF didn't think to highly of his nephew and in return Edmure gave up Blackfish for his family's and his own life. Looking at it through Edmure POV he was giving up BF (who could care less if they killed him) in exchange for the castle and saving alot of lives. Jaime told him he would kill every Tully and Edmure knew the castle would fall anyway. He sacrificed BF who could have cared less if they slit his throat for alot of lives. Smart move 

BF knew the Frey threats were empty, that in the long run Edmure was a dead man walking (he is a prisoner of the Freys, who hate the Tully's, who are not above murder, and the War is almost over and Edmure has pretty much served his purpose to the Freys), and the men with BF were supposed to have more respect for him, I believe, than the show made it out.  BF recruited those men to retake the castle, then they all just blindly give up when the Lannisters arrive and act like they didn't think a siege would actually occur.  The fact that the BF's men so willingly betrayed him, to his face, in order to appease Edmure (a current Frey/Lannister prisoner), especially after the BF has been made out to be a leader and well liked man among his men, was terrible writing.

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30 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Up to this episode, I thought that the Blackfish was the gruff uncle who cared about his nephew nonetheless. Sure, he disparaged him before, he had no patience for his goofiness, he even told the Freys to slit his throat - when you still could interpret this like the book-like 'just do it already, I know you're not going to let him live'. But this episode ruined him and ruined Edmure. It's ruined right in the moment hen Edmure shows up at the gate, clearly alone, demands entry, and Blackfish starts a pissing contest about who is the lord.

I mean, this guy let Brienne to enter, negotiated with the Kingslayer, and now is refusing to talk to the rightful Lord of the Riverrun?

And, let's quote that Frey, if Jaime was wrong, it could be the moment they freed their most valuable prisoner.

Blackfish got a gift, he got the chance to plot with Edmure, he got his nephew returned, it would be a good thing for them both... if he actually cared about anything other than being the one calling the shots. They made him a stubborn old fool. They made him not the guyt who was just a realist about Edmure's chances to survive before, no, he really meant he would be better off without him, just kill my nephew, so I could be the uncontested boss.

They made Blackfish pathetic, one dimentional, and they gave him a humiliating death in hands of the Tully soldiers.

Now, Edmure had a better excuse to screw Blackfish over, but it still came off as spiteful. The final impression of the House Tully members? Two resentful guys willing to throw each other under the Lannister bus on the spot. 'Family, Duty, Honor' is as much of a joke now as the Martell's words now.

The ruined the siege, ruined the Tullys, ruined negotiations, and killed the conclusion too, because in story there was a point to be made about taking Riverrun without bloodshed. But sure, screw that. Let's fill in with cheap drama instead.

Blackfish has wisdom. He read that situation from a mile away.  Edmure is a fool. And him showing up at the gate alone demanding entry, was clearly a Lannister move. Edmure had no control over what was going to happen. Had Edmure had any sense. He would have understood his uncle's initial position of not surrendering the castle. Then they should have had a debate and Edmure could have shown some character development by telling his uncle that he is not gonna let him or any more Tully men be killed.  Then helped him to escape.  The way they played it, Edmure simply looks like a coward, fool, and turn cloak. You saw the way the Tully commander who backed his entry into Riverrun looked at him...

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