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Krakenface

Jaime's character arc

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I know a lot of people, particularly the book readers, are disappointed with the way that Jaime's arc has been treated in the show. Last night's episode was case in point - all the development he had earlier on, losing a hand, etc. seems to have been undone and he's back to being obsessively in love with Cersei, willing to cut down anyone in his path and so on. 

Though I was at first pretty annoyed with the way his arc was treated in episode 8, I think D&D could possibly be setting him up for a redemption arc despite this. Perhaps, him seeing Brienne again as well as being away from KL reminding him of his "honour" or whatever. I mean, he didn't slaughter masses of Tully forces, he seemed pretty distraught at the Blackfish's death (he admired him a lot, I guess), and he allowed Bri and Pod to escape. 

Perhaps all is not lost? What are your thoughts? Will he return to KL this season? Discuss. 

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I'm sure they're setting him up to turn against Cersei (perhaps to kill her too), but only because they have to and it's crucial to the plot. His turn will be very quick - as opposed to the books - and it will probably because he finally finds out about her sleeping around.

He has some scant elements of his redemption arc, and perhaps they MEAN for this to be a redemption arc, but the Jaime on the show is far closer to AGOT Jaime than AFFC Jaime and has regressed since season 3.

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I think probably he will return to KL right in the trial's day, and find Cersei ready to use wildfire to burn the whole city down. She knew about the rumours of the Mad King's wildfire caches, and Qyburn finds the rumours to be true, so...

Probably Jamie will have to make the same decision he made years back: let the whole city burn, or kill the Mad King. In this case, the Mad Queen.

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This is a perfect example of why I end up so disappointed with the show. It's not because they are changing things from the book per se, it's because they can't seem to stay consistent to their own storyline. They introduce an arc, or character development, then toss it away when it doesn't fit what they want to do next, and then occasionally throw it back into play later with little to no actual "arc" to it. We spent more time watching Jaime's world shatter than we have on several other characters traumatic experiences, both the many rapes but also Jon's resurrection, and then it all just magically disappears and leaves us wondering if all that storyline will eventually mean something. 

In this episode you also have a cocky, self assured Jaime who is threatening everyone, his oaths forgotten but it also seems that his loss of fighting skills have disappeared as well. Did those 2-3 training sessions with Bronn suddenly undo the loss of his sword hand? My husband isn't a reader and he kept saying "I don't understand what they are doing? What happened to ______? This doesn't make any sense." I have no answers, because they haven't stuck to the original storyline but they also haven't stayed consistent with their own story or characters. 

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6 hours ago, The Bear said:

I'm sure they're setting him up to turn against Cersei (perhaps to kill her too), but only because they have to and it's crucial to the plot. His turn will be very quick - as opposed to the books - and it will probably because he finally finds out about her sleeping around.

He has some scant elements of his redemption arc, and perhaps they MEAN for this to be a redemption arc, but the Jaime on the show is far closer to AGOT Jaime than AFFC Jaime and has regressed since season 3.

While I think Jaime's turnaround towards Cersei will be quick, I don't think it will be because of her infidelities. Its just too small for him to just turn around because she slept with everyone. 

I think it will be because he witnesses her wildfire actions. And it will be more poignant and dramatic, because he will be like - I forswore my oaths and my honor to save this city and my own sister/soul mate/one only actually does it, combine with some PTSD (from KL fall/Aerys death) and he will kill Cersei.

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3 hours ago, Anna Marzo said:

I think probably he will return to KL right in the trial's day, and find Cersei ready to use wildfire to burn the whole city down. She knew about the rumours of the Mad King's wildfire caches, and Qyburn finds the rumours to be true, so...

Probably Jamie will have to make the same decision he made years back: let the whole city burn, or kill the Mad King. In this case, the Mad Queen.

Yup, but he'll hold her in his arms and perish with her. His work is done.

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Yeah Jaime in this ep was really jarring, to be honest. It seemed like in his convo with Brienne that he was still on that arc towards redeemed Jaime, and he really didn't want to shed any blood and would have let the army through because all he cared about was following the order to return Riverrun to the Freys. But then his convo with Edmure was right back to crazy Jaime who doesn't care about anything except Cersei, which at this point is just annoying. I don't know. Maybe we're supposed to assume that his entire strategy of taking Riverrun back with basically no bloodshed was a sign of his growth???? (Even though he even admits that it's just because it'll be faster than a siege). 

Either way it looks like he'll be back in time for the trial. Maybe he'll finally find out about Lancel, but I agree with everyone on here that this wouldn't drive him to murder Cersei. I'm 100% on the "Jaime kills Cersei to save the city from wildfire" train. 

Although Bran's vision shows the wildfire going off, so.... maybe not?

Anyway, the point is that I agree that his character arc is confusing and unsatisfying. 

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I wonder two things going forward:

What was he going to do with the Blackfish?

Will he find a way to go North ?

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22 minutes ago, Rumy Stark said:

Yeah Jaime in this ep was really jarring, to be honest. It seemed like in his convo with Brienne that he was still on that arc towards redeemed Jaime, and he really didn't want to shed any blood and would have let the army through because all he cared about was following the order to return Riverrun to the Freys. But then his convo with Edmure was right back to crazy Jaime who doesn't care about anything except Cersei, which at this point is just annoying. I don't know. Maybe we're supposed to assume that his entire strategy of taking Riverrun back with basically no bloodshed was a sign of his growth???? (Even though he even admits that it's just because it'll be faster than a siege). 

Either way it looks like he'll be back in time for the trial. Maybe he'll finally find out about Lancel, but I agree with everyone on here that this wouldn't drive him to murder Cersei. I'm 100% on the "Jaime kills Cersei to save the city from wildfire" train. 

Although Bran's vision shows the wildfire going off, so.... maybe not?

Anyway, the point is that I agree that his character arc is confusing and unsatisfying. 

There is also an image in the season 6 trailer of the red keep without a roof, burnt to the ground.  And the Reddit spoilers...

Spoiler

...Say that Cersei is going to ignite the faith trial with wildfire, killing pretty much everyone

 

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I really don't care about show Jaime anymore and at this point I could care less if he has redemption arc in the future. The book Jaime is great not only because of the fact that he has a redemption arc and considering that all those other reasons are basically gone in the show at this point, just redoing some kind of redemption again will not save him for me anymore.

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What I think is in this episode you could see a glimpse of the Jaime-that-was when he was with Brienne. The Jaime of the character arc  you could almost see peeping through (letting Brienne keep Oathkeeper) , something we haven't seen in many a season.

 

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Whatever we all think about Jaime's arc, it's (a) nothing like what's going on in the books, and (b) he is clearly heading for some big head. I think he will arrive back at KL with Cersei in the middle of lighting the city on fire with wildfire, making the decision to reprise his Aerys move and kill her before she does any more damage. Either way, he's turned out much less compelling than in the books.

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I think the show tried to show him torn with his two conversations with Brienne and Edmure so MAYBE they give us his redemption arc but Edmure nailed him when he called him a villain. Personally I feel that scene was telling us he isn't coming back. The dark side won

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Just look at the inconsistency with Arya in last episode (7) and now. It is simply awfull writing and lack of consistency.

So many people thought it could be Arya impersonating someone. Arya had a master plan. It was Jaqen disguised as Arya etc.

Any of the above would have been better because now it is just a stupid Arya episode where she acts very not like Arya specially after she dissed the Facelesss men and went hiding in the episode 6.

D&D don't get the books and just do their fanfiction + fanservice. Abandon hope.

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They've cut out pretty much all the elements of Jaime's arc towards redemption.  In general, while I realize it's a tough arc for the show to give proper depth to, in terms of Jaime's chapters in the books being very introspective which on TV is much tougher to show, I think the show just didn't have the motivation to write that arc out.  It's just really disappointing because it was so great in the books.  Ideally the show would have cut out Dorne completely last season and spent more time on Jaime in the Riverlands...there was a lot of good stuff that the show could've done with scenes in the Riverlands to more effectively establish Jaime's redemption arc.

Instead, as the show tends to do, they'll have him suddenly change ways when he needs to.  We got some hints tonight...and I'm sure we will basically get back to where we were in the books where Jaime turns against Cersei in the end.

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I do not understand what they have done to this character.  They have a charismatic actor and great source material, but what we get is "I love my sister and will do anything to get back to her".  Gag me.

I do wonder if he does kill Cersei, will he live and will he travel north to fight the larger threat with our small company of heroes or will he die with his beloved sister.  

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13 hours ago, Krakenface said:

I know a lot of people, particularly the book readers, are disappointed with the way that Jaime's arc has been treated in the show. Last night's episode was case in point - all the development he had earlier on, losing a hand, etc. seems to have been undone and he's back to being obsessively in love with Cersei, willing to cut down anyone in his path and so on. 

....

I don't think that all the change of his character has been undone. He is actually a ''better person'' and he doesn't want to kill the Tullys just because they are his enemies. He would prefer them to surrender so no blood would be spilled, to avoid unnecessary deads.
But he also still loves Cercei like always. He tried to be good to Edmure and show him his respect but Edmure only sees him as the Kingslayer like the Blackfish, a man who has no honour and cannot be trusted. Jaime understood that and that's why he changed in the middle of the conversation and showed Edmure the KIngslayer. Edmure doesn't trust ''good'' Jaime but he trusts the Kingslayer. To come to a conclusion and end the siege Jaime had to talk like the Kingslayer and scare Edmure because nothing else would work.


Sry for my grammar but i am no native english speaker.

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