Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

spivo

Please explain Bravos ending (spoilers)

Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, spivo said:

I didn't understand the ending...

Jaqen says she is now "No one", and she says she's Arya of Winterfell, and indicates she is of to help her family.

He smiles, like it is okay with him???

I did not understand any of it...

- Is he okay with her leaving the FM, with all the secrets they have?

- How can she be "No one", when she clearly still feels like a Stark?

- When someone has been "named", they have to die, so how can the Waif be a substitude for Arya?

 

Am I missing something? Does the FM have their own agenda, that does not need someone buying them?

The only thing I could think of, was that the Iron Bank, or someone else, has bought the FM to kill someone on Arya's list, so Jaqen knows she will still work for the FM going to Westeros???

 

In the books Jaqen is at Oldtown doing God's knows what.  Arya's arc will almost certainly go the same way as the show but maybe she'll leave in less dramatic and violent fashion.  So I can't help but feel the FM have something planned for her and that is why Jaqen took such a keen interest in her in the first instance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Not a kneeler said:

I don't know if the Faceless Men were all that shallow as portrayed in the show. In the books they are much more mysterious. In the show they are not much more than assassins for hire, or so it seems.

This is one of my biggest disappointments of the show handling of the FM - just assassins for hire? Without much more to it than that? The book narrative felt much different - more layered, mysterious, with different rules and codes. The show ruined the FM for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that Arya has paid her debt to the Faceless God and she is free to leave. The servants of the God will trouble her no more.

But the questions remain. What was this all about? What was it for? The show gives us no answers.

All I know is that compassion (mercy) is the primal virtue in FM believes. They have taught it to Arya repeatedly. Now Jaquen seems to be content that unlike Waif, Arya proved to be compassionate. He seems content that she choose to be herself, rather than no-one. But why? Wasn't their goal to train an ultimate assassin? Wasn't Arya chosen by the FG himself to walk the path of death? It's nice to imagine that FM are actually helping Arya to come to terms with her grief and her fate. But now, it appears they have lost two acolytes and are cool with that. How does loosing acolytes help in training legendary assassins? How being compassionate and rebellious makes for a perfect assassin if he cannot even complete a hit?

I am confused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Edinho said:

I'm not saying the waif cut the candle, I'm saying Arya didn't survive the fight.

If that's so then how did the Waif's face end up on the wall? Also, why would the Waif want to go to Westeros? There's nothing there for her, and the whole exchange with Jaqen wouldn't make any sense. As for Jaqen, he actually seemed pleased with the result, which doesn't make sense if Arya were dead since he clearly has a soft spot for her. Unless he's supposed to be fooled by the Waif's 'disguise' which is very difficult to believe. I gotta think this is a scenario where there is no twist. The opportunity for twists are certainly there, but they all seem unlikely in the end. The Waif is dead and on the wall, Arya is alive and headed towards home and with any luck Jaqen will go with her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think her arc is less about becoming a master assassin and more about discovering who she is again after being someone else and "no one" for so long. The fact she's learned how to fight and picked up a few FM skills is just a bonus to help in her story going forward. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Not a kneeler said:

The Arya storyline this whole season has been Arya learning to become ... Arya. She is impulsive, violent, vengeful. Over the season she finally learned to control her impulses, to plan ahead. We see her fleeing the waif in this last episode, but think. She was going someplace. She hid Needle in a dark cul-de-sac. She planned it. She was able to kill the waif because she outsmarted her by applying the lesson learned while she was blind. If the door was open it wouldn't have worked, but Arya knew the waif would shut the door to cut off her escape. She won, but she also became an assassin. She learned control. She grew up and she is deadly.

 

 

But did she though? What did she learn? To walk around Braavos calling attention to herself by slinging around bags of silver and demanding a private cabin while a nameless waif assassin was trying to kill her? What sort of logic is that? She knew the FM were going to come for her, so instead of hiding out she saunters around Braavos like a tourist, in obviously Westerosi attire?

The scene before the waif attacks shows exactly how little she has learned about control and impulsivity. She was also extremely impulsive when she decided to go against the FM's orders and save Lady Crane. I just don't see where this has been a "journey" for Arya Stark, other than learning some cool new fighting moves with a stick. She was better off with Syrio Forel. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before Arya arrived in Braavos, she knew who she was. 

Now that she is leaving Braavos, she knows who she is ... again. 

What on earth was the point of her entire 2-season arc in Braavos, again? To learn how to fight in the dark? 2 seasons and she's accomplished so very little. 

I think once people view it like that, it becomes easier to understand why there's so much ambiguity and uncertain regarding her entire arc. It's because it has suffered from some awful, terrible writing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Before Arya arrived in Braavos, she knew who she was. 

Now that she is leaving Braavos, she knows who she is ... again. 

What on earth was the point of her entire 2-season arc in Braavos, again? To learn how to fight in the dark? 2 seasons and she's accomplished so very little. 

I think once people view it like that, it becomes easier to understand why there's so much ambiguity and uncertain regarding her entire arc. It's because it has suffered from some awful, terrible writing. 

Pretty much sums it up. Much like the Siege of Riverrun, the whole plot thread was pointless and a complete waste of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Arya played them at all. I think at first she was drawn to the idea of being a faceless man/woman as a way of exacting retribution against her enemies. As for Jaqen from the very first moment he met Arya he saw something in her and probably thought she would make a good asset in which he was correct. He also obviously had a soft spot for her and it showed in my opinion.

It all changed for Arya when she realized that the faceless men go after the good and the bad and Jaqen summed it up for her himself. But it was more than that because basically she realized that they were just mercenaries for hire killing anyone for payment.  Deep down she did not believe in killing the innocent and that changed her whole attitude towards the faceless men.

I do believe Jaqen right up to the very end was hoping that she would become one of the FM, right the way through the series he did display that he was honourable even though he was a killer for hire. I think he was pleased when she finally chose and that is why he let Arya leave.

I have a question for you all, from what I saw he came across as more than a mere mortal. Could he possibly be one of the Gods? It's just the way he would appear and disappear which got me thinking.

Food for thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

Before Arya arrived in Braavos, she knew who she was. 

Now that she is leaving Braavos, she knows who she is ... again. 

What on earth was the point of her entire 2-season arc in Braavos, again? To learn how to fight in the dark? 2 seasons and she's accomplished so very little. 

I think once people view it like that, it becomes easier to understand why there's so much ambiguity and uncertain regarding her entire arc. It's because it has suffered from some awful, terrible writing. 

She never really did.  She was still just a child trying to figure out a life herself when her drives pulled her into a direction opposite society's expectations.  That was before the shit hit the fan and her family started dropping like flies.  She went on to recite a nightly hit list for years.  Something she's seemingly given up on since the FM forced her to stop lying to herself about the Hound and even find empathy for Cersei.  While she's always had a sense of justice she gained a sense of context and compassion along the way as well, eg telling the story to the sick girl to get her to drink from the poison well. 

I don't mean to imply should won't try to get justice for her family in Westeros, but that's different than the cold blooded vengeance streak she was on while w/the Hound.  Arguably, leaving the Hound in the state he was her low point in terms of losing her humanity as doing so the coldest things she'd ever done.

It's really the Waif resolution that left her arch feel anti-climatic, since for many found it to impossible to suspend disbelief that:

1. Arya was dumb enough to turn her back to anyone walking by on that bridge (even if you buy she was setting the Waif up)

and

2. a.she was able to recover from her gut wounds by a Lady

    b. who learned to treat stab wounds b/c she liked to stab her "badboys". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, YorEmixam said:

Arya's dead was ordered, you cannot exchange her life for someone else. Jaqen in the cart was in a situation which would have killed him, like catching someone about to fall off a cliff, the many faced god claimed a life and someone interfered = another life must be paid. A man send a killer for a specific target, you cant just kill anyone for it.

 

ETA. Anyway logic is not a thing in GoT it seems.

It wasn't ordered, imo. The Waif wanted to kill Arya for her own motives but Jaqen never ordered to have her killed. It was obvious that the spot on the Wall could be fill by either the Waif's face or Arya's to me. The outcome didn't really matter, as nobody had paid the assassins for Arya's death. 

My take on it is that the difference resides in the contract: whenever a random person pays to have someone assassinated, the mission has to be fulfilled and that specific person has to die (= assassination contract). However, whenever there is no such "private person to business contract", it doesn't matter which face is added to the Hall of Faces. 

But that's a matter of understanding the organization, this is just my take on it and I understand other fans might have a different opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just adding that, although I think the events will unfold differently in the books, I think the outcome will be the same: Arya will end up leaving the FM. 

If you look at her entire storyline (books or show), from the moment Ned died, Arya pretended to be someone else (Arry, Nan, Squab, Weasel, Salty, Blind Beth, Mercy and the others I'm forgetting). Arya had lost her sense of self when she came to the FM, she thought she would be able to leave the pain of being who she is behind and to start over. But my take on it is that her entire Braavos arc is meant for her to find herself again and to reclaim her identity as "Arya Stark", after having tried to pretend she was "no one" or "someone else" for a long time.

I'm curious to see how this all unfolds in the books, but I was thinking that maybe the trick is that you can never actually become "no one". But rather, to be able to slip into someone else's face, you need to have a strong sense of self not to loose yourself in that other persona. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that it's a little uncliear. Either Arya:
Failed her final test and is no longer in training and must leave permanently. Failure of the test does not mean certain death.
Passed her final test and is a fully fledged Faceless Man and as such is free to go where she wishes, perhaps the Many Faced God will guide her actions (in the view of the other Faceless Men).

I am leaning more towards the first option. Arya is a washed out Faceless Man. Jaqen has been saying for a while now that she is not ready. I would think that if there were any other failed faceless men out there using their secret knowledge that the real Faceless Men would either warn them off and kill them. I doubt they learn the really dangerous magic stuff untill they are full members.

Saying that even in the books there are aspects that were never explained and we just go with it. How did Jaqen end up in the Blac Cells? Why did he need Arya to free him, surely he could have escaped on his own? meh...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mayura said:

It wasn't ordered, imo. The Waif wanted to kill Arya for her own motives but Jaqen never ordered to have her killed. It was obvious that the spot on the Wall could be fill by either the Waif's face or Arya's to me. The outcome didn't really matter, as nobody had paid the assassins for Arya's death. 

My take on it is that the difference resides in the contract: whenever a random person pays to have someone assassinated, the mission has to be fulfilled and that specific person has to die (= assassination contract). However, whenever there is no such "private person to business contract", it doesn't matter which face is added to the Hall of Faces. 

But that's a matter of understanding the organization, this is just my take on it and I understand other fans might have a different opinion.

Arya did not do the deed (this is an assassins guild, not kindergarden) 

She not only failled to kill the target, but made it public that the faceless man fucked up a killing, not good for their perfect rep. Seriously who would pay their exagerated price instead of a common cut-throat after this.

Not only that but she pointed to the target who has put a price on her head...

I see a whole lot of reasons for Jaqen to have Arya killed, and accepting the waif's death in her stead is just non-sense , thats the point I was defending here when the other guy called out we try real hard to find something to bitch about, logic is shit in the show even tho i'm a big fan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the point of Arya's arc was that she was trying to escape who she was, become someone new so that she can forget her past and change. Her time with the FM has essentially taught her that she is who she is, and that she doesn't want to change or be someone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, YorEmixam said:

Arya did not do the deed (this is an assassins guild, not kindergarden) 

She not only failled to kill the target, but made it public that the faceless man fucked up a killing, not good for their perfect rep. Seriously who would pay their exagerated price instead of a common cut-throat after this.

Not only that but she pointed to the target who has put a price on her head...

I see a whole lot of reasons for Jaqen to have Arya killed, and accepting the waif's death in her stead is just non-sense , thats the point I was defending here when the other guy called out we try real hard to find something to bitch about, logic is shit in the show even tho i'm a big fan.

I see your point but mine still stands: 

* Lady Crane was the object of an assassination contract. Hence she had to be offed by someone. Not only because of religious MFR reasons, but because Bianca had paid the price for her death. 

* Arya wasn't the object of an assassination contract for which someone was going to pay a price. She had indeed failed her assessment. But nobody had put a contract on her head. It is just that Jaqen had allowed the Waif to go after Arya (as per the Waif's personal vendetta against Arya) should she fail her assessment. But Jaqen never said "kill Arya". He instead remained very vague during his conversation with the Waif, referring only to "a girl" who he hoped would not suffer. The "girl" could have been either Arya or the Waif in my understanding (and I think that's how it was intended). 

If you understand this differently, that's fine though. But I don't find your arguments compelling :) (because I have a different understanding). 

Moreover, it is true that Arya fucked up the assassination and probably made the FM look bad, at least to Bianca. But judging by the fact Braavos is the training place of the Faceless Men, I doubt these kind of accidents don't happen every once in a while. The Braavosi seemed to be mildly surprised to see a teenager being beaten up in the streets and most of them (referring to the books) accepted to welcome Arya in their homes during her training. They must be somewhat familiar with the FM training and casualties must happen there. I guess only the more experienced and reliable FM are sent to fulfill more important contracts (Westeros etc). But I also guess the price might be more important if you want to have a fully trained instead of a trainee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Mayura said:

I see your point but mine still stands: 

* Lady Crane was the object of an assassination contract. Hence she had to be offed by someone. Not only because of religious MFR reasons, but because Bianca had paid the price for her death. 

* Arya wasn't the object of an assassination contract for which someone was going to pay a price. She had indeed failed her assessment. But nobody had put a contract on her head. It is just that Jaqen had allowed the Waif to go after Arya (as per the Waif's personal vendetta against Arya) should she fail her assessment. But Jaqen never said "kill Arya". He instead remained very vague during his conversation with the Waif, referring only to "a girl" who he hoped would not suffer. The "girl" could have been either Arya or the Waif in my understanding (and I think that's how it was intended). 

If you understand this differently, that's fine though. But I don't find your arguments compelling :) (because I have a different understanding). 

Moreover, it is true that Arya fucked up the assassination and probably made the FM look bad, at least to Bianca. But judging by the fact Braavos is the training place of the Faceless Men, I doubt these kind of accidents don't happen every once in a while. The Braavosi seemed to be mildly surprised to see a teenager being beaten up in the streets and most of them (referring to the books) accepted to welcome Arya in their homes during her training. They must be somewhat familiar with the FM training and casualties must happen there. I guess only the more experienced and reliable FM are sent to fulfill more important contracts (Westeros etc). But I also guess the price might be more important if you want to have a fully trained instead of a trainee.

Rewatch the last scene of ep.8 Arya ask Jaqen "you asked her to kill me" he says yes.

Bravosis are know in books to duel in the streets all the time so nobig deals with her being beated up, she stood and fought.

Oh and I also think the not suffer part was intended both way, still a stretch in logic anyway they most likely will come with something more for arya and her link with them but my hopes are going down each episode, I now take them at face value with the logic switch set to off. Sorry for this edit mess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"Please explain Bravos ending"

explanation: Directors and writers tried to create some mystery, following by "is arya dead?" anxiety and some Joy that she decided to be herself at the end. THEY FAILED MISERABLY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×