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StuSeaworth

Why is Mereen under siege?

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Oh man,

Everyone miss's the obvious.

The Siege was setup as a means to introduce Yara and Theon into the Mereen/Dany plot. Expect to see them swoop in with the liberated GreyJoy fleet and save  the day.

 

Think people think!

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43 minutes ago, Ice Spider said:

Oh man,

Everyone miss's the obvious.

The Siege was setup as a means to introduce Yara and Theon into the Mereen/Dany plot. Expect to see them swoop in with the liberated GreyJoy fleet and save  the day.

 

Think people think!

You missed the point, it's easy to see why the writers would do it from a plot perspective but that obviously shouldn't be the case for the in universe motivations of the slavers. The slavers shouldn't be setting up a siege just so they can get taken in the rear by the Ironborn

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48 minutes ago, Ice Spider said:

Oh man,

Everyone miss's the obvious.

The Siege was setup as a means to introduce Yara and Theon into the Mereen/Dany plot. Expect to see them swoop in with the liberated GreyJoy fleet and save  the day.

 

Think people think!

That's quite obvious, It seems that you are the one missing the obvious. You might want to think about it yourself.

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[mod] Knock off the interpersonal bickering and stick to the topic. I don't want to see any more off-topic posts or silly squabbling. [/mod]

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I don't see what Tyrion cost them here, also.

He made a deal which gave them nothing, the time they got was hardly touched and Mereen had no capability to launch an attack in that time. That was stated explicitly early in the season, before they lost their ships (I think).

Oh wait! I found it!  Tyrion declared a city wide holiday where every citizen must turn his/her back on the harbor for hours.  In this time, the attack ships sailed in, dropped anchors, set up their siege weapons and began to launch the fire spears.  I guess he has to take the hit for really awful writing.

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6 hours ago, Frejac said:

I neither understand nor buy the arguments that the attack is somehow Tyrion's fault for getting used or played by the slavers or showing them weakness or some other nonsense.

The slavers would have attacked regardless.

They didn't need Tyrion to show them Dany was gone.  They didn't need Tyrion to show them Drogon was gone.  They didn't need Tyrion to show them the fleet was gone.

They would have already known all of this.  They had the Sons of the Harpy.

Luring Tyrion into a false sense of security would have absolutely no effect because there would be nothing he could do against their attack.  He has no ships.

And their meeting didn't buy them time to prepare their forces either; they would have been doing that anyway.  It's not like Dany would have had the reach or resources to truly stop them, even if she were still in the city.

Nothing was Tyrion's fault here.

Yeah I pretty much agree with this, it certainly didn't seem like he did anything actively against there efforts. Only could I see a few scenarios where he would of fucked up royally, not that I believe any of them though.

(1) the sons of the harpy weren't bankrolled by the masters and they found out about the city when he invited them in.

(2) The sons of the harpy didn't actually know that Dany had been missing / her advisors didn't know where she was, and the masters got confirmation.

(3) Grey Worms plan to march of the cities had a snowballs chance of actually working

(4) By treating with the Masters he drove a wedge through the people and Dany's advisors

(5) because of the stop in violence and supposed peace, Tyrion somehow stopped mounting defenses or got lazy with preparation.

 

 

 

 

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The second I heard Grey Worms warning to Tyrion that the he was not playing the Master but they were playing him, I knew that Tyrion's negotiation with the Master would backfire.

This is exactly what I expected to happen, that the Master would bid their time gather the forces of slavery and attacked the city. They know Dany is not there, they think there are no dragons around, the Meereen fleet was destroyed by the Harpy so they had an excellent shot of attacking Meereen and taking it the city back.

I'm sure now that Dany has showned up, the dragons are back and the Greyjoy's show up (the Dothraki are useless in water) the Master will probably try to surrender but Dany shouldn't accept it. They have betrayed her twice, in Daznak and now with the naval attack, she should not give them a chance to betray her again. They are done for.

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9 hours ago, StuSeaworth said:

But what is the weakness? Has the cities defenses or status changed at all since Dany left? It seems strange they would see one of the three dragons being gone as such a large opportunity. 

They attacked guerrilla-style when Drogon wasn't around and it almost got her killed, a full on siege when she's been missing for weeks/months makes totally sense. From the slavers' pov it's their best shot. It's anti-climatic for us viewers because we know the khalassar and the Ironborns will save the day. Oh and +3 dragons.

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12 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Most of it happens in the Barristan epilogue that was in some books, or some of the pre-released stuff. 

I'm curious why we don't have Viseryon and Rhaegal joining in yet? Tyrion dragon whisperer released them like five episodes ago. 

Well he took their chains off.

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Personally, I think the show should have done more to prepare for the fleet showing up.  Yes there are a few clues that Tyrion "was being played" but he did give them 7 years and reinstituted slavery.  Yes with Dany gone they have an opportunity, but watching the show, the attack really came out of nowhere, and there was no reason for it to be a surprise to the viewers.  Spend some of the time Tyrion spent "talking" with Miss and Greyworm to talk about problems and war like actions in the other cities.  Again the attack didn't need to be a subtle surprise.  The 2nd Battle of WF is not a "surprise" Mereen shouldn't have been either.

And some conflict between Tyrion, Varys, G and M would have been much more interesting TV

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17 hours ago, DragonDreamer said:

The second I heard Grey Worms warning to Tyrion that the he was not playing the Master but they were playing him, I knew that Tyrion's negotiation with the Master would backfire.

This is exactly what I expected to happen, that the Master would bid their time gather the forces of slavery and attacked the city. They know Dany is not there, they think there are no dragons around, the Meereen fleet was destroyed by the Harpy so they had an excellent shot of attacking Meereen and taking it the city back.

I'm sure now that Dany has showned up, the dragons are back and the Greyjoy's show up (the Dothraki are useless in water) the Master will probably try to surrender but Dany shouldn't accept it. They have betrayed her twice, in Daznak and now with the naval attack, she should not give them a chance to betray her again. They are done for.

she should have killed them all when she conquered slaver bay and erase the future problems at once, she was too soft hearted, now its time harden her heart , conquer with fire forge with blood

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3 minutes ago, blckp said:

she should have killed them all when she conquered slaver bay and erase the future problems at once, she was too soft hearted, now its time harden her heart , conquer with fire forge with blood

I wouldn't go that far. I think it was important for her to try and negotiate with them at first, she's not a mindless Fire and Blood destroyer. That it didn't work this time doesn't mean it won't work the next. Although, it's still to be determined what lesson Dany takes out of this.

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16 minutes ago, blckp said:

she should have killed them all when she conquered slaver bay and erase the future problems at once, she was too soft hearted, now its time harden her heart , conquer with fire forge with blood

So Jaime and the Freys should have killed everyone in RiverRun, Edmure and, Edmures Tully baby last episode as well, to erase any future problems and not be soft hearted? 

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The entire Mereen sequences in this episode were utter shit. No build up for the attack and now they will have Dany save the city off-screen. So poorly handled. 

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1 hour ago, DragonDreamer said:

The second I heard Grey Worms warning to Tyrion that the he was not playing the Master but they were playing him, I knew that Tyrion's negotiation with the Master would backfire.

This is exactly what I expected to happen, that the Master would bid their time gather the forces of slavery and attacked the city. They know Dany is not there, they think there are no dragons around, the Meereen fleet was destroyed by the Harpy so they had an excellent shot of attacking Meereen and taking it the city back.

I'm sure now that Dany has showned up, the dragons are back and the Greyjoy's show up (the Dothraki are useless in water) the Master will probably try to surrender but Dany shouldn't accept it. They have betrayed her twice, in Daznak and now with the naval attack, she should not give them a chance to betray her again. They are done for.

 

The Dothraki I am sure will slaughter the force that was landing on the beach to attack the city.

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6 minutes ago, Daemos said:

The entire Mereen sequences in this episode were utter shit. No build up for the attack and now they will have Dany save the city off-screen. So poorly handled. 

That was the point. Tyrion was arrogant enough to think that he could deal with masters in good faith despite the warnings from people who actually knew the enemy and it bit him in the ass.

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1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

That was the point. Tyrion was arrogant enough to think that he could deal with masters in good faith despite the warnings from people who actually knew the enemy and it bit him in the ass.

No I meant to build up for the attack FOR THE AUDIENCE. The 'surprise attack' had ZERO drama and terrible screen presence. Made only worse by Dany ex Machina's arrival. 

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7 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

 

The Dothraki I am sure will slaughter the force that was landing on the beach to attack the city.

That is true, they do need to earn their keep. 

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4 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

That was the point. Tyrion was arrogant enough to think that he could deal with masters in good faith despite the warnings from people who actually knew the enemy and it bit him in the ass.

What specifically was the bite?  How did Tyrion making an agreement change anything in their attack?  This story would have made sense if after the agreement, Tyrion sent some of his forces out to find Dany or do something else.  As far as we know, he didn't.  

If the Masters had needed time to assemble their forces, they had it already, just don't attack. If anything, any sort of time delay allowed Dany ex Machina to arrive with her new army and Drogon and gave Mereen some peace to rebuild without the Sons of the Harpy causing trouble.

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17 hours ago, StuSeaworth said:

In the books, the siege of Mereen felt organic and you had a basic understanding for the motivations of the sides.

In the show, I do not feel they provided much reasoning why they are all the sudden under siege. Did I miss some major conversations, or is this siege simply because Tyrion (on behalf on Dany) is trying to cut out slavery over the next seven years?

for several reasons....the efficient cause of the siege is because Grey Worm and the unsullied are literally the worst soldiers who ever lived. I mean, you thought the freys were bad for not seeing 8000 Lannister troops pop into their camp. With a heightened vantage point and while, presumably, on patrols and watching the city, the unsullied let an entire fucking armada sneak up on them. Who gets snuck up on by an armada. I mean, if you listed the top 10 things that are really fucking unlikely to sneak up on a city full of trained soldiers you would have to list armada pretty high on that list.

 

Another reason seems to be that Dany needs 1000 ships so plot dictates that a bunch of ships happen to show up on her front door. I am guessing a strongly worded speech and, possibly, some titties, and those ships will be hers. 

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