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StuSeaworth

Why is Mereen under siege?

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3 hours ago, legba11 said:

Oh wait! I found it!  Tyrion declared a city wide holiday where every citizen must turn his/her back on the harbor for hours.  In this time, the attack ships sailed in, dropped anchors, set up their siege weapons and began to launch the fire spears.  I guess he has to take the hit for really awful writing.

this seems right.

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Do you people even watch the episode?  The armada was spotted and an alarm was sounded throughout the city. Some people will complain just for the sake of complaining I guess.

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2 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Do you people even watch the episode?  The armada was spotted and an alarm was sounded throughout the city. Some people will complain just for the sake of complaining I guess.

Some seemed to think the show is filmed in real time, or that they are watching CCTV  of the events 

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The alarm was sounded as the fire spears were being launched.  What exactly was going on in the hours all those ships were pouring into the harbor and setting up?

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1 minute ago, legba11 said:

The alarm was sounded as the fire spears were being launched.  What exactly was going on in the hours all those ships were pouring into the harbor and setting up?

No it didn't. It was sounded during joke hour in the pyramid. It was why the three of them stop telling jokes and went out to the balcony to see what was going on..

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The guys who let 200 people with golden masks enter Daznak Pit now serve in the the coast watch it seems.

Don't forget they also allowed harpies to burn the entire Mereen fleet without arresting one.

 

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23 minutes ago, legba11 said:

The alarm was sounded as the fire spears were being launched.  What exactly was going on in the hours all those ships were pouring into the harbor and setting up?

they were using the dornish ship cloaking device that the sand skanks used when they followed the ship into kings landing to kill trystane. It is possible that gendry is using the dornish ship cloaking device as well and has been involved in every scene only we can't see him.

People making apologies and excuses for the naval sneak up seem to be taking the wrong tact. Fine, say that the glaring plot hole just makes for more action packed television and get it over with. But don't tell me that you can't see a naval armada coming at you for like 3 days and that is without having any outlying defenses. Like just looking off that balcony with your bare eyes you should have at least had a full day to prepare.

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8 minutes ago, Lord Freypie said:

The guys who let 200 people with golden masks enter Daznak Pit now serve in the the coast watch it seems.

Don't forget they also allowed harpies to burn the entire Mereen fleet without arresting one.

 

Yeah gray worm is a real ball dropper (enter your own eunuch joke).

And letting 200 people with golden masks into daznak pit was bad enough. Where were the people patrolling the city when every goldsmith in town was set to the project of making gold masks?

Yes, these are the same people watching for naval armadas.

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It is possible Gendry on his rowboat was spotted and all the sentries had a betting pool concerning his parentage.

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You guys crack me up. Yes the alarm should have sounded when they saw the tips of the sails on the horizon. I get that point.  But it is a much more dramatic shot for a visual medium for the three of them to actually see the ships entering the harbor.  This just seems like another item in the long list of insignificant nitpicks that people like to complain about for the sake of complaining. But to each their own I guess.

EDIT: and now I see a complaint that the unsullied weren't scoping out the local goldsmith shops to see who was making masks. Honest to God this is ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, El Guapo said:

That was the point. Tyrion was arrogant enough to think that he could deal with masters in good faith despite the warnings from people who actually knew the enemy and it bit him in the ass.

I understand that was the point that the showrunners were trying to convey, they weren't being subtle. The problems were:

1) If the Masters planned to attack the city, why would they stop killing the Unsullied? It would seem that having an active insurgency inside the city itself would make repelling an invasion much more difficult.

2) How did tricking Tyrion weaken Meereen? A period of peace should have helped the defenders of Meereen; they could restock supplies, their soldiers were no longer being killed and, in theory, the Unsullied could focus on defending the city from outside threats rather than inside ones (although there is no evidence this actually happened). In that regard, the 'deal' didn't require good faith because any reprieve should have been advantageous to Meereen.

3) What did Tyrion's deal actually do to help the Slavers? They'd already taken over Yunkai and Astapor and, if they were dealing with any rebellions, they certainly weren't being led from Meereen. Basically, the deal was for the Harpies to stop killing Unsullied in exchange for Tyrion declaring to the Masters, "What you're doing is legal, for now."

While I prefer the books to the show, one can certainly blame Martin for some of this mess. Everything relating to Slaver's Bay was easily his worst writing, from a comically evil civilization with absolutely zero redeeming characteristics to illogical plot contrivances (Dany 'freeing' the Unsullied so they could effectively serve as her slave army). However, none of that changes the fact that this entire story line was poorly contrived and executed in the show and, I would add, veers awfully close to the 'noble savages' trope.

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15 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

You guys crack me up. Yes the alarm should have sounded when they saw the tips of the sails on the horizon. I get that point.  But it is a much more dramatic shot for a visual medium for the three of them to actually see the ships entering the harbor.  This just seems like another item in the long list of insignificant nitpicks that people like to complain about for the sake of complaining. But to each their own I guess.

EDIT: and now I see a complaint that the unsullied weren't scoping out the local goldsmith shops to see who was making masks. Honest to God this is ridiculous.

You seem to want to defend the show at all costs, while I respect the devotion, you're ignoring:

1) Assembling an armada takes a lot of time and preparation. Not only could random travelers or merchants mention something, anyone actively monitoring Yunkai or Astapor would have a good idea of what was happening. The fact that the Slavers took the time to make matching sails, which was a cute touch, would have helped but, apparently, the Master of Whisperers and everyone else couldn't be bothered.

2) Any properly defended city is going to have outposts for advanced warning.

3) Failing that, there is a giant pyramid in the middle of the city. It's difficult to understand scale in the show, but if it's as tall as the pyramid of Giza (and the pyramid in Meereen looks much taller, that is ~26 miles of visibility in the ocean, or roughly three hours of sailing time.

I mean, sure, if you're willing to throw out all reason, the ships teleporting into the harbor was dramatic. But it's sad that a show with a $100m budget for this season couldn't be bothered to sanity check their script.

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14 minutes ago, Landru said:

You seem to want to defend the show at all costs, while I respect the devotion, you're ignoring:

1) Assembling an armada takes a lot of time and preparation. Not only could random travelers or merchants mention something, anyone actively monitoring Yunkai or Astapor would have a good idea of what was happening. The fact that the Slavers took the time to make matching sails, which was a cute touch, would have helped but, apparently, the Master of Whisperers and everyone else couldn't be bothered.

2) Any properly defended city is going to have outposts for advanced warning.

3) Failing that, there is a giant pyramid in the middle of the city. It's difficult to understand scale in the show, but if it's as tall as the pyramid of Giza (and the pyramid in Meereen looks much taller, that is ~26 miles of visibility in the ocean, or roughly three hours of sailing time.

I mean, sure, if you're willing to throw out all reason, the ships teleporting into the harbor was dramatic. But it's sad that a show with a $100m budget for this season couldn't be bothered to sanity check their script.

 

Not at all. I save my criticisms and complaints for things that are worth criticizing and complaining such as Sansa's season 5 storyline or the entire Dornish plot or from this past episode Arya not only surviving her gut would but then able to run around Braavos jumping around like a ninja. This however just seems like one big nitpick to me.  But like I said to each their own.

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I'm eager to see what happens (presumably) in episode 10. Do we see the siege/battle take place, or do we meet up with Meeren afterward. Maybe Drogon flies off and toasts the opposing ships whilst the Dothraki wipe out any enemies who've landed; or maybe Drogon flew Dany ahead of the Khalasar and now Drogon's off to nap, leaving Dany to strategise a victory. 

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I really think that some of the criticisms of the writers here are.... bizarre to say the least.

Early in the season, Varys discovers that the masters of Yunkai are plotting against Mereen, and funding an insurgency there.

In response to that, Tyrion offers them a fairly insulting deal, from a position of weakness. They feign acceptance.

Then, Mereen's ships are burnt at harbour by unknown actors.

With Tyrion apparently confident in his own ability to bring about peace, and having succumbed to overconfidence ("Varys... the most famous dwarf in the world"), a surprise naval invasion is launched.

In this world, we have repeatedly seen people employ the strategy of making their enemy feel safe, and drop his guard, before striking. I seem to remember a similar strategy being used to devastating effect at a wedding some time ago. Before that, Renly Baratheon was given a whole night in safety - before he wasn't. Years before that, Brynden Rivers promised a Blackfyre pretender safe passage through Kings Landing. Until he didn't. 

What happened in Mereen was that Tyrion got played. They've been showing his growing hubris and confidence all season, and it wasn't without purpose. I don't know how this is so hard to understand. It strikes me that some people just like bashing the show, for the sake of bashing the show. Sometimes, the show does stupid things. This doesn't strike me as one of those times.

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15 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

 

Not at all. I save my criticisms and complaints for things that are worth criticizing and complaining such as Sansa's season 5 storyline or the entire Dornish plot or from this past episode Arya not only surviving her gut would but then able to run around Braavos jumping around like a ninja. This however just seems like one big nitpick to me.  But like I said to each their own.

Fair enough. I see it as a sign of sloppy and lazy writing, which I find annoying. Furthermore, it's difficult for me to have an immersive experience when I must constantly suspend disbelief. However, as you pointed out, there are more egregious and important examples so I understand your perspective.

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26 minutes ago, Johnimus said:

I really think that some of the criticisms of the writers here are.... bizarre to say the least.

Early in the season, Varys discovers that the masters of Yunkai are plotting against Mereen, and funding an insurgency there.

In response to that, Tyrion offers them a fairly insulting deal, from a position of weakness. They feign acceptance.

Then, Mereen's ships are burnt at harbour by unknown actors.

With Tyrion apparently confident in his own ability to bring about peace, and having succumbed to overconfidence ("Varys... the most famous dwarf in the world"), a surprise naval invasion is launched.

In this world, we have repeatedly seen people employ the strategy of making their enemy feel safe, and drop his guard, before striking. I seem to remember a similar strategy being used to devastating effect at a wedding some time ago. Before that, Renly Baratheon was given a whole night in safety - before he wasn't. Years before that, Brynden Rivers promised a Blackfyre pretender safe passage through Kings Landing. Until he didn't. 

What happened in Mereen was that Tyrion got played. They've been showing his growing hubris and confidence all season, and it wasn't without purpose. I don't know how this is so hard to understand. It strikes me that some people just like bashing the show, for the sake of bashing the show. Sometimes, the show does stupid things. This doesn't strike me as one of those times.

You really think people are thick, don't you? We all know what the showrunners intended. The complaint is about how poorly they conceived and executed this idea.

The basic problem (which I walked through in more detail a few posts ago) is that it's unclear how Tyrion's deal helped the Masters. If part of the deal, Tyrion had released some prisoners, which then killed lookouts as the armada approached, that would accomplish what the showrunners apparently intended. But they didn't do that.

As El Guapo stated, there probably are bigger nits to pick but that doesn't make this plot line any less terrible.

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2 hours ago, Daemos said:

No I meant to build up for the attack FOR THE AUDIENCE. The 'surprise attack' had ZERO drama and terrible screen presence. Made only worse by Dany ex Machina's arrival. 

I'm sure that if there had been more built up people would've complained about how predictable, hamfisted and on the nose the attack was. 

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27 minutes ago, Johnimus said:

 

What happened in Mereen was that Tyrion got played. They've been showing his growing hubris and confidence all season, and it wasn't without purpose. I don't know how this is so hard to understand. It strikes me that some people just like bashing the show, for the sake of bashing the show. Sometimes, the show does stupid things. This doesn't strike me as one of those times.

I'll ask again (not you, again in general).  What specifically did Tyrion do which helped the Masters with this attack?  All I've seen is he gave them nothing and bought some time (since time is so amorphous in this show) for his city to recover without an insurrection. He been a cocky prick, he's always a cocky prick.  The writers could have replaced dick joke #197 with a simple scene where Meeren forces are sent to do some other important task in any number of episodes.  

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