Lord Cactus Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I know people sometimes complain about Robb in saying that he fought a war for nothing, but it drove the plot forward. I don't think that applies in Quentyn's case. We get a few chapters with him where he makes the big journey to Meereen, only to get rejected by Daenerys and then set on fire. Was there really a purpose to his chapters? I mean, Doran will be pretty peeved if Dany ever comes to Westeros, but otherwise it seems like Doran's master plan was rather moot, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Methinks that one of Quentyn’s storyline reasons are for Dany to lose the only strong ally she could hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Quentyns purpose was not just his own arc, but he was an answer for the Mereneese knot. GRRM had gotten tied down in Merren and told readers he was hung up and did not know what to do about it. Quentyn was part of the answer. GRRM needed things to happen like for the dragons to get back out and for lots of people/enemies/free companies to converge on Mereen, but he also needed Danaerys to leave people to show what's going on. If we had no Quentyn, then a significant portion of what is goin on in Slavers bay would have to just be simply recounted by the court and we would have to accept it all or not, and no 1 else would release the dragons. There is also the potential to have this drive a wedge between Dany and Dorne, leading to the Martells supporting Aegon, and possibly a reversal of previous Blackfyre rebellions where the Yronwoods now wind up supporting Danaerys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cactus Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Methinks that one of Quentyn’s storyline reasons are for Dany to lose the only strong ally she could hope for. 3 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: Quentyns purpose was not just his own arc, but he was an answer for the Mereneese knot. GRRM had gotten tied down in Merren and told readers he was hung up and did not know what to do about it. Quentyn was part of the answer. GRRM needed things to happen like for the dragons to get back out and for lots of people/enemies/free companies to converge on Mereen, but he also needed Danaerys to leave people to show what's going on. If we had no Quentyn, then a significant portion of what is goin on in Slavers bay would have to just be simply recounted by the court and we would have to accept it all or not, and no 1 else would release the dragons. There is also the potential to have this drive a wedge between Dany and Dorne, leading to the Martells supporting Aegon, and possibly a reversal of previous Blackfyre rebellions where the Yronwoods now wind up supporting Danaerys These are both excellent looks as to the purpose of those, and actually make the chapters seem much more worthwhile. Particularly the freeing of the dragons, which would have been rather dull to read that someone randomly did it otherwise via a Barristan POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ McLannister Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Quentyn didn't need to be a POV to release the dragons and die. And even if that was his fate, he didn't need as many chapters as he got (could do it in an epilogue, even though that might tip us off to how it will end). Also, by the time he gets to Mereen, we have Tyrion's POV there as well. And Selmy's. He complicates the Dorne-Targaryen alliance. He gives us some insights into the sellsword camps, and he delivers two Westerosi for Barristan to make use of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 8 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: Quentyns purpose was not just his own arc, but he was an answer for the Mereneese knot. GRRM had gotten tied down in Merren and told readers he was hung up and did not know what to do about it. Quentyn was part of the answer. GRRM needed things to happen like for the dragons to get back out and for lots of people/enemies/free companies to converge on Mereen, but he also needed Danaerys to leave people to show what's going on. If we had no Quentyn, then a significant portion of what is goin on in Slavers bay would have to just be simply recounted by the court and we would have to accept it all or not, and no 1 else would release the dragons. There is also the potential to have this drive a wedge between Dany and Dorne, leading to the Martells supporting Aegon, and possibly a reversal of previous Blackfyre rebellions where the Yronwoods now wind up supporting Danaerys exactly this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmnomnomPomelo Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Quentyn was "the Sun rises in the West and sets in the East" from the prophecy what Mirri Maz Duur told Dany. Also he set the dragons free accidentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Estermont Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think it's a way to destroy the Martell-Targaryen alliance before it even began, but there was some filler stuff he did as well. Grrm used him as a plot device most likely,not a particularly good one tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 1 hour ago, CJ McLannister said: Quentyn didn't need to be a POV to release the dragons and die. And even if that was his fate, he didn't need as many chapters as he got (could do it in an epilogue, even though that might tip us off to how it will end). Also, by the time he gets to Mereen, we have Tyrion's POV there as well. And Selmy's. He complicates the Dorne-Targaryen alliance. He gives us some insights into the sellsword camps, and he delivers two Westerosi for Barristan to make use of. Exactly. The point of Quentyn the character was to drive a wedge between Dorne and Dany. The point of Quentyn the POV was to bore me to tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Quentyn just seems like a huge waste of time who made one of the dumbest decisions in the series. Yes, he frees the dragons and possibly creates the potential issue between Dorne and Dany. But both of these things could have been done without him. And let me just say how annoyed I'll be if/when the Martells/Sand Snakes blame Dany for Quentyn's death, which she had absolutely nothing to do with. They were annoying enough for the way they reacted to Oberyn's death. 1 hour ago, OmnomnomPomelo said: Quentyn was "the Sun rises in the West and sets in the East" from the prophecy what Mirri Maz Duur told Dany. But if this was really meant to be metaphorical, which I hope is true maybe I won't dislike Quentyn as much and his chapters will be almost worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estermonty python Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I agree with everything that's been said. From a thematic point of view. I'd also add that a storyline like Quentyn's suggests that patience as an end in itself is no more effective than impulsiveness. Doran and Oberyn are two extremes, and neither the short game nor the long game has proved particularly effective for House Martell. At least Arianne seems capable of mixing the two, so there's some hope for the future. I also think GRRM probably decided he needed someone with some trace of Valyrian blood to try - and fail - to ride a dragon, to show that it's not that easy. I presume he deemed that necessary because the next time someone tries, that person will be successful (my money is on Brown Ben Plumm). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Careful, we're getting very close to the "is Quentyn really dead" debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 His travelogue is filler, a waste of space. It might be possible to justify it if it had anything new to offer on Slaver's Bay, but it doesn't. Quentyn's pov repeats what we've been told: Slavers are grotesque and evil and stupid. End of story. It could be justified as a pov into the armies that besiege Meereen, but Tyrion's already on that. That leaves Quentyn's appearance before Dany as potentially necessary, in that it could lead to a break between Dany and Dorne. This, however, reeks of retcon: If the Martells had signed a marriage contract between Viserys and Arianne, why didn't they do anything for Targ kids? Why are we hearing about this just now? That in turn leads to far-fetched reasoning: They needed to keep it secret. Lemon trees! Red doors! ...and then there are the dragons. Did we really need to know the full history of the fool who releases them? Couldn't anyone do it? How about an ex-slaver, a harpy? More on the dragons: Couldn't they free themselves next time some hapless guard brings in food? Quentyn enters their lair, and notes that Viserion's chain is broken: "a thick iron collar was visible about his neck, with three feet of broken chain dangling from it." Which kinda means Quentyn is so very useless that he's not even handy for undoing the chains of these creatures, as the chains broke before he got there. The boy serves no purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think the Martell kid was a pretty good read. He offered but another slice of life from Westeros as well as giving some insight into what happened among the sellswords and provided why the Martells will join with Aegon rather than Daenerys, as well has by his friends explain why Daenerys will have a bad reputation in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Some very good points made. I would also like to add that the pointlessness of Quentyn's mission is kind of the point. A young life was snuffed out so that Doran could get vengeance against people who are already dead. And it failed anyway. Quentyn is one of my favourite characters. I think he was a great addition to the story. He didn't have that many chapters, so I don't know what people are complaining about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 15 minutes ago, kimim said: snip This. Furthermore, I think Quentyn's chapters really showcase how the story is growing out of control. Once GRRM decided to give Quentyn a POV, he had to fill out his chapters with a gazillion new sellswords and characters that merely exist to act as glorified extras in the Quentyn Show, and then it does feel, to me at least, very artificial and perfunctory, like adding characters for the sake of doing it. And then those added characters have to remain there even after Quentyn is dead, and that way the story branches in tertiary plotlines like the Tattered Prince and Pentos, Arch and Drink, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnFit Finlay Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I think he's inadvertently kick started the Dance with Dragons, and the demise of House Martell. Quentyn swore on his honour that Dorne would deliver Pentos to the Tattered Prince, even if he died. Dorne is going side with Aegon, whose benefactor lives in Pentos. When Doran finds out about that letter, he's going to be forced into making an impossible decision: dishonouring his son or warring with his nephew (and daughter if the marriage pact happens). Barristan made a similar promise on Dany's behalf and, once Tyrion tells her exactly what kind of friend Illyrio's been to her, I think she'll honour it. The stories of the "Mad Queen" who spurned Quentyn and fed him to her dragon will help spur Aegon into attacking her and defending Illyrio. This might not happen, of course, but it could, and if it did, I think it'd be fair to say that Quentyn played a very important part in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poupsi Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Quentyn pov character shows you the insight from a free company. Quentyn is also a suitor to Dany, even if she doesn't like him. Indead Quentyn opposed Daario and get the approval from Barristan. Quentyn quest began when he really met Dany. He had known her for 3 days and then try to tame a dragon by emulating Dany with Rhaegar and Viserion. But Quentyn what Quentyn did, is he shows us what a prince of dorne is and what it meants (duty to your country). Many people might not like it, but the thing is Quentyn also brought his qualities into Mereen: mainly he is tenatious, he doesn't give up, and he has a huge photographic memory (just like Aegon the 1st), that he uses mostly for the dragontaming quest. He also has a great reading of the political issues that are going on (see his meeting with the tattered prince). He is a sort of Tyrion without wine and whores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poupsi Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Just now, UnFit Finlay said: I think he's inadvertently kick started the Dance with Dragons, and the demise of House Martell. Quentyn swore on his honour that Dorne would deliver Pentos to the Tattered Prince, even if he died. Dorne is going side with Aegon, whose benefactor lives in Pentos. When Doran finds out about that letter, he's going to be forced into making an impossible decision: dishonouring his son or warring with his nephew (and daughter if the marriage pact happens). Barristan made a similar promise on Dany's behalf and, once Tyrion tells her exactly what kind of friend Illyrio's been to her, I think she'll honour it. The stories of the "Mad Queen" who spurned Quentyn and fed him to her dragon will help spur Aegon into attacking her and defending Illyrio. This might not happen, of course, but it could, and if it did, I think it'd be fair to say that Quentyn played a very important part in the series. Does Illyrio needs to be defended. The Tattered Prince request is undefendeable for Pentos politics dependsgrandly on Braavos. I believe him being dead would solvr a lot of problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 His purpose was to die and prevent Dany from getting Dorne as an ally. Very little else, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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