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Im With Stannis

Why is it so important that Jaime is in the Riverlands?

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Back when the show had Jaime gallivanting around Dorne, GRRM was quoted as saying that the show better get Jaime to the Riverlands quickly. Why is this? While I enjoyed the stand-off with him and the Blackfish, ultimately it seems kinda pointless to the story (so far). In the books, I believe it ended with Brienne leading Jaime away somewhere. I always though this might be to see Lady Stoneheart. We can see LSH is not in the show, so what else could happen here that is so pivotal to the story?

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I think it's to solidify Jaime's story arc of a man who wants to live with honour and how to pursue that while navigating his earned reputation as Kingslayer, a man with 'shit for honour.'

So, pursue and achieve honourable goals while making use of his horrendous reputation.

Also kinda feeds into my pet tin foil hat theory that he's the PTWP/Azor Ahai, but that's another thread.

 

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8 minutes ago, Greggles said:

I think it's to solidify Jaime's story arc of a man who wants to live with honour and how to pursue that while navigating his earned reputation as Kingslayer, a man with 'shit for honour.'

So, pursue and achieve honourable goals while making use of his horrendous reputation.

Also kinda feeds into my pet tin foil hat theory that he's the PTWP/Azor Ahai, but that's another thread.

 

I have considered that myself, the other candidates just seem to obvious.

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29 minutes ago, Net-Viper X said:

I have considered that myself, the other candidates just seem to obvious.

*Don's tinfoil hat*

So, I'm liberally interpreting the story of how Azor Ahai forged his sword to representing the path to becoming a warrior suitable for representing the Light against the Dark.

Here the full story:

"To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew before hand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, while her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon"

And how I interpret it:

"However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke": He was captured in the riverlands
" To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered."  Right, this one can be read a bunch of ways, but it's pretty certain he's betrayed/failed his house on a number of fronts, Take your pick
"He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer,"   Why that's when he kills Cercei!

That's my take on it.  Nitpic away!

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I wondered the same myself. Obviously something important might still come out of the Riverrun plotline in episode 10, but right now it seems like it was mostly inconsequential filler

Brienne and Pod apparently go back North with nothing to show for it

I don't think we'll be seeing Edmure anytime soon, and we certainly won't be seeing more of the Blackfish

Maybe the whole thing was to keep Jaime away from KL during Cersei's trial, I don't know

 

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Jaime's trip to the Riverlands was important so we could be introduced to Gatehouse Ami and her oft raised portcullis. That can still happen, right?

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7 minutes ago, Ser Hyle said:

Jaime's trip to the Riverlands was important so we could be introduced to Gatehouse Ami and her oft raised portcullis. That can still happen, right?

If it means a chance for more tits then absolutely. Perhaps she'll be the one to convince Jaime to abandon Cersei.

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I still think Jaime will die at the Frey wedding and Arya will harvest his face and use it to assasinate Cersei. We'll see if Cersei survives the upcoming Wildfire BBQ.

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4 hours ago, Greggles said:

*Don's tinfoil hat*

So, I'm liberally interpreting the story of how Azor Ahai forged his sword to representing the path to becoming a warrior suitable for representing the Light against the Dark.

Here the full story:

"To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew before hand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, while her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon"

And how I interpret it:

"However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke": He was captured in the riverlands
" To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered."  Right, this one can be read a bunch of ways, but it's pretty certain he's betrayed/failed his house on a number of fronts, Take your pick
"He drove his sword into her breast, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer,"   Why that's when he kills Cercei!

That's my take on it.  Nitpic away!

I'm totally feeling it man, I'm right there with you. That would be so much more awesome and less fairy tale than Jon or Dany being Azor Ahai.

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2 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

I still think Jaime will die at the Frey wedding and Arya will harvest his face and use it to assasinate Cersei. We'll see if Cersei survives the upcoming Wildfire BBQ.

What Frey wedding? I assumed they'd cut that with Daven not being in the show but I haven't been paying much attention anymore so I could of missed it

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I'm starting to think, and this is really just based on the shows deviation of his character, that he never really was on a redemption arc. I'm inclined to think, instead, that he's just so weak minded of an individual that he acts according to what he thinks is acceptable to the people around him. I mean, it's not a far cry to envision him as being that vain; that he'd modify his behaviour for the approval of who he's around. Think about it, he only turns on Cersei in the book because he discovers she cheated on him. He was okay with all her other shenanigans. It was only after he was slighted by her indiscretions that he decided he was done with her. That being said, I loved the idea of or the way his arc seemed to be going in the book but clearly the show doesn't have that in mind for him. 

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3 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

I still think Jaime will die at the Frey wedding and Arya will harvest his face and use it to assasinate Cersei. We'll see if Cersei survives the upcoming Wildfire BBQ.

yea thats not how that works.  Face doesnt transform your entire body structure not sure where you could have possibly got that impression book or show 

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I've been thinking a lot about what it is that Jaimie is meant to do.

It is logical that Jaimie would help LF kick out the Boltons after their betrayal of the crown. The Boltons are enemies of the Crown and Cersei specifically instructed LF to get rid of the Boltons (or Stannis had he succeeded). But if rumours are true, Jaimie will not be helping LF or the Starks during the battle of the bastards.

I initially thought that LF will try to marry Sansa and take Winterfell after battle of the bastards (if they succeed).

But how does Jaimie come into the equation? 

If KL is destroyed by wildfire, Cersei & Tommen may be presumed dead, how will Jaimie react? Even if Cersei survives, how will Jaimie react? If Jaimie doesn't have a complete meltdown, thinks logically and cares about saving his house, his position in Westeros as well as Westeros itself, he may choose to undercut LF and marry Sansa himself to bring Westeros together? This would serve as a pardoning of the Starks & allies.

I just can't see him joining the 'other side' any other way (at the very present moment anyway). Another idea just now is that he finds the Freys Valyrian Sword? (Light bringer)

Unless he does something important in the books but the show has decided to feed him to the dogs - probably quite literally when/if the dire wolves ever appear.

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People complained that Jamie didn't go to the Riverlands, and that it was important because of Jamies development in the books.

So Jamie goes to the Riverlands, its basically an entire location devoted to Jamies development.. and then people complain nothing happened. Lets not forget the book version of the Riverlands was pretty inconsequential as well, and was predominantly about developing Jamie.

Never happy.

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26 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

People complained that Jamie didn't go to the Riverlands, and that it was important because of Jamies development in the books.

So Jamie goes to the Riverlands, its basically an entire location devoted to Jamies development.. and then people complain nothing happened. Lets not forget the book version of the Riverlands was pretty inconsequential as well, and was predominantly about developing Jamie.

Never happy.

No wonder if the show gives Jaime lines such as "I will kill every Tully to be with Cersei", don't include the letter etc. We got the same Jaime from Season 1 who just happened to go to Riverrun. D&D don't do character progression. At most they can do 180 degree twists.

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I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand here. Jamie still loves Cercei, but wants to be a better person. To say he hasn't progressed ( what a stupid idea anyway, that people are on some sort of gaming upward curve in life) isn't true, because after he lost his hand he became less cocky and more morose and less the old Jamie. 

Now seeing Brienne has reminded him of what he could be, what he wants to be. It doesn't mean he doesn't love Cercei however.

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32 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

People complained that Jamie didn't go to the Riverlands, and that it was important because of Jamies development in the books.

So Jamie goes to the Riverlands, its basically an entire location devoted to Jamies development.. and then people complain nothing happened. Lets not forget the book version of the Riverlands was pretty inconsequential as well, and was predominantly about developing Jamie.

Never happy.

True, I'm not happy. I assumed that if Jaime was in the Riverlands it would be because he would get the distance he needed from Cersei to realize how toxic she is and for Brienne to rekindle the half-assed redemption he was briefly seeking. What I did not expect was that he is even more ride or die with Cersei and will do anything to get back to her. ANYTHING! I did not see any development for Jaime in the show Riverlands, so there was zero point to that brief side-trip. Sure, there is still a friendship between Brienne and Jaime and that was almost, but not quite worth the back-flips they had to do to make this plot line a thing, but that is not at all development for Jaime.

I think the problem with Jaime is two-fold. One, they softened Cersei and Tyrion too much and both of those hurt Jaime's character a lot. Two, a lot of what is ahppening with Jaime is very internal - more-so than many other characters so it was harder to portray. Book Jaime is dead, dead, dead and it makes me both sad and angry.

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1 minute ago, Gertrude said:

True, I'm not happy. I assumed that if Jaime was in the Riverlands it would be because he would get the distance he needed from Cersei to realize how toxic she is and for Brienne to rekindle the half-assed redemption he was briefly seeking. What I did not expect was that he is even more ride or die with Cersei and will do anything to get back to her. ANYTHING! I did not see any development for Jaime in the show Riverlands, so there was zero point to that brief side-trip. Sure, there is still a friendship between Brienne and Jaime and that was almost, but not quite worth the back-flips they had to do to make this plot line a thing, but that is not at all development for Jaime.

I think the problem with Jaime is two-fold. One, they softened Cersei and Tyrion too much and both of those hurt Jaime's character a lot. Two, a lot of what is ahppening with Jaime is very internal - more-so than many other characters so it was harder to portray. Book Jaime is dead, dead, dead and it makes me both sad and angry.

1) The show is different to the books. That it moves things around doesn't make it worse. Its just different. If you can forget the way the books did it (which I don't think was especially great anyway) then there really isn't a problem,

2) Watch the scenes with Brienne again, there is a lot in there about Jamies character.

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Well, for the most part I do try to separate the books and show, but some things are harder than others. Jaime is my favorite PoV so this one hits harder for me. There was just so much potential in his story and none of it is being used, so I'm a little bitter about it. Like I said, he and Brienne still have a connection, but what does that mean for Jaime at this point? It's just not believable at this point in the story that a brief pow-wow with her will turn him against Cersei now and without doing that, I don't see a path for him to work on becoming a better man. Essentially, it's way too little, way too late. The show may still attempt it, but they've lost my trust and faith and I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. They would have to sell the hell out of it and I am skeptical to say the least.

eta: I have to say, this is based a lot on the assumption that Cersei is about to go down in flames and their story is coming to a rapid close. I would have rather Jaime turned on her because of the truths her recognized on his own than just reacting to a rabid dog that is backed into a corner. So yeah, I should wait to see how it actually plays out, but ... man, this show. I don't trust it.

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46 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

True, I'm not happy. I assumed that if Jaime was in the Riverlands it would be because he would get the distance he needed from Cersei to realize how toxic she is and for Brienne to rekindle the half-assed redemption he was briefly seeking. What I did not expect was that he is even more ride or die with Cersei and will do anything to get back to her. ANYTHING! I did not see any development for Jaime in the show Riverlands, so there was zero point to that brief side-trip. Sure, there is still a friendship between Brienne and Jaime and that was almost, but not quite worth the back-flips they had to do to make this plot line a thing, but that is not at all development for Jaime.

I think the problem with Jaime is two-fold. One, they softened Cersei and Tyrion too much and both of those hurt Jaime's character a lot. Two, a lot of what is ahppening with Jaime is very internal - more-so than many other characters so it was harder to portray. Book Jaime is dead, dead, dead and it makes me both sad and angry.

I can only agree with that.

there is only one last "hope" I have left (but I don't quite know whether I hope for it or whether I dread it). they could build up some kind of "shock-development" like they did with Stannis last season, i.e. first, D&D developed a close connection between Stannis and Shireen throughout several episodes and then they blew it all up for stupid reasons.

it could be the same here: Jaime stresses his closeness to Cersei more than ever - and then there will be a silly pretext to trigger his aversion from her. and D&D will think they are clever by doing so.

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