jandslegate Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 26 minutes ago, tugela said: Ramsey would be an idiot to accept such an offer. One on one he could (and probably would) lose. Two armies clashing and he probably would win. Whatever else he might be, being brain dead stupid is not one of his failings. Oh without a doubt. Jon expecting Ramsay to accept a duel is about as believable as a Bolton surrender. I was just adding my input from how I interpreted the teaser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjmarsh Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 On 6/15/2016 at 10:26 AM, Darksky said: Did you consider Blackwater and The Battle at The Wall obvious and lame too? You know both Tywin and Stannis arriving and saving the day... inb4 you say no because they were Martin's ideas.... will be hilarious to see the reactions if The Vale saves the day in the battle for Winterfell in the book as well... If the Vale comes to the rescue in the books, it will be completely different because it would really be Sansa coming to help. The show has deficated the story to what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayçal Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 4 hours ago, tugela said: That does not change the legal status of the Stark rebellion. At this point the Boltons are the paramount lords, they were not stripped of that title. The Starks are rebels. The north does not determine who the paramount lord is, it is a title bestowed by the crown. Of course, once bestowed, it is up the lord in question to exert their authority. Obviously having Sansa would secure their position, but they don't need her to hold the title or exert authority. The Bolton are traitors for the crown basically right now there is no legal authority recognised by the crown in the north, so starks or bolton it's all the same This is why Jon will be declared "king in the north" after the battle, the north (and the stark) also don't recognise the crown authority on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knight of Flours Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 LF may also believe he is Warden of the North since that was his understanding with Cersei the last time he jetted down to KL. Suppose he's been checking her status on FB though and is aware she doesn't have much say atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 3 hours ago, Fayçal said: The Bolton are traitors for the crown basically right now there is no legal authority recognised by the crown in the north, so starks or bolton it's all the same This is why Jon will be declared "king in the north" after the battle, the north (and the stark) also don't recognise the crown authority on them The title as Wardens of the North had not been revoked. Cersei may be peeved, but she is not the crown. In the book it was the crown itself that arranged for fake Arya to be taken to the North to marry Ramsey. It was part of their plan to pacify the North, on the theory that the Bolton heir marrying a Stark would get the northern lords to simmer down and accept the Boltons as paramount lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 2 hours ago, The Knight of Flours said: LF may also believe he is Warden of the North since that was his understanding with Cersei the last time he jetted down to KL. Suppose he's been checking her status on FB though and is aware she doesn't have much say atm. Cersei is the Queen Dowager. She does not get to make those decisions. The king makes them, in consultation with his small council (whose advice he is obliged to accept until he reaches majority). LF is the warden of the Riverlands (the title was removed from the Lord of Riverrun, and awarded to the Lord of Harrenhal, which LF currently is), and the lord protector of the Vale. He wants to be in effective control of the North through a proxy (such as Sansa) so that he will basically be ruling the northern half of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youshallnotpass Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 6 hours ago, lancerman said: It makes no sense to forshadow the Vale so much, then ignore that for some House that will only mean anything to the people who read the book. It's bad storytelling. If the Manderly's were going to have a significant part to play, they would have been mentioned by now. They have been mentioned heavily throughout the season. Davos even says that Manderly hasnt joined Ramsey yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksky Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Jon challenging Ramsay to a duel in order to save thousands from dying is a direct parallel to Jaime challenging Robb to a duel to save their men. Robb knew he'd lose (and maybe even thought Jaime wouldn't keep to his word and slaughter Robb's men) so he denied the challenge. Jaime was also a prisoner so he was in no position to make demands. Ramsay will refuse the duel, because he knows he's got superior strength on his side and doesn't give a shit about his own men. He doesn't mind many of them dying as long as he gets to win. He's a madman. He's also a bit of a coward. I doubt he's very confident in his own swordsmanship skills. Although I think he underestimates Jon's. On the other hand, Jon must be really confident in his superiority over Ramsay, because there's no way Ramsay would let Jon's men go if he killed him. There would still be a battle. And Jon knows that. Perhaps it's just to stall the battle until the Vale comes and Jon doesn't mind whether he'd live or die against Ramsay as long as he delayed the battle long enough for the reinforcements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 7 hours ago, youshallnotpass said: They have been mentioned heavily throughout the season. Davos even says that Manderly hasnt joined Ramsey yet! OMG. If the Vale shows up, every single person watching is going to get what's going on because we've been to the Vale several times. We know they have an army, we know it was offered, we know the characters there. If tomorrow the Manderly's show up and save the day, on Monday all you will here from critics is people saying "some random group saved Jon and Sansa out of nowhere". And they will be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa's Direwolf Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 If the Manderly's show up with the Knights of the Vale, most show watchers won't know they are Northern, it will appear they are part of the Vale. It would be wonderful it in addition to the Vale the other undeclared houses of the North show up with Baelish. Then the North and the Vale will be the ones to reject the Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fayçal Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 it has been set that the Menderly's won't show up untill the episode 10 when Lyanna Mormont will blame all the northern houses in a council and tell them she was one of the only ones who joins the stark, then the other northern houses will appologize (manderly speech) and declare Jon snow king in the north and don't care if he is a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youshallnotpass Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 18 minutes ago, Fayçal said: it has been set that the Menderly's won't show up untill the episode 10 when Lyanna Mormont will blame all the northern houses in a council and tell them she was one of the only ones who joins the stark, then the other northern houses will appologize (manderly speech) and declare Jon snow king in the north and don't care if he is a bastard. I think we will see House Manderly's men with the vale but not Manderly himself until episode 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Ramsay's terms: REJECTED Dany's terms: ACCEPTED Just my prediction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 On 6/15/2016 at 6:01 PM, jandslegate said: I took that bit from the preview as Jon offering not so much terms of surrender but an offer of single combat for the sake of many lives. Obviously, Ramsay would never accept one on one but 20 on 20...that's another story. No way he would have accepted 20 on 20, why...Wun Wun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Aunt Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 On 18.6.2016 at 6:46 AM, The Knight of Flours said: LF may also believe he is Warden of the North since that was his understanding with Cersei the last time he jetted down to KL. Suppose he's been checking her status on FB though and is aware she doesn't have much say atm. Doesn't matter. Cersai arranged for him a royal decree and the king still is the same. So it's valid. He definitly is Warden of the North and recognized by the Lannisters/Crown. And he has the army at Winterfell so the real power also lies with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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