[Book Spoilers] Jaime & Brienne- What's going on?

[jcmontea]

56 minutes ago, larastone said:

i actually think jon/ygritte has been the best pairing on this show so far. kit/rose's chemistry is miles and miles better than kit/emilia's imo. plus rose leslie is like 50x more talented than both kit and emilia which also helps.

Kit/ Emlia worked for me. 

But i wasn’t talking about acting or chemistry. 

And i liked the Jon/ Ygrite relatjonship but the characters had nothing in common. There relationship is very superficial. At least in the show. Don’t remember the books. But basically Jon falls for her because she likes him and they bang. Its like that relationship where you go on vacation, meet someone have great sex but at the end of the day you know this isn’t going anywhere because its not built on shared values and outlook. I can buy Jon being in love with her because he is a kid and its his first time and infatuation is super powerful your first time. 

But this is in contrast to Jon and Dany who were written since the very first season to be on parallel journeys so that as they get to know each other they realize they have almost everything in common. Them falling for each other makes sense because not only are they both super hot but they have 90% of things in common (and about that % of genes too). Its hard not to fall for someone in that scenario. 

Of course execution is something different. But as characters Jon and Dany should fall for each other on a deep and profound level since they are literally written to ensure it happens.

[Newstar]

24 minutes ago, larastone said:

lmao the idea of sansa/sandor kissing makes me want to puke.

I honestly can't even picture TV Sansa and Sandor kissing.

 

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i think jaime/brienne in the show have a lot of emotional chemistry. if that makes any sense?? but i've never felt anything sexual between them. on the other hand, jaime/cersei are sort of meh/just okay when they're talking but their kissing scenes are actually pretty charged and passionate. 

I agree. I completely buy TV Jaime and Brienne's respect and love for each other, and NCW and GC completely sell that side of their relationship, but to me it's never had any sort of sexual vibe. Jaime and Cersei's relationship, on the other hand, had many issues, but a lack of sexual chemistry was never one of them.

 

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NCW and GC are decent actors so i'm sure they could a good job with a sex scene when the time comes but personally its really hard for me to imagine that scene actually being sexy. 

I think a lot of it boils down to GC playing Brienne as an even more dour and humourless version of Stannis, and who wants to fuck Stannis?

[beauty6]

@Newstar, just to make it clear, I am the shipper of the two. Although motivated by their parallel versions. But you are right, the "no no no" feelings have definitely been there during the "fuck loyalties" scene. Also during the Riverrun discussion. The waving on the boat was OK. The sex might still be OK, if the authors limit their conversation to minimum, for which the chances are reasonable.

[jcmontea]

22 minutes ago, Newstar said:

OI honestly can't even picture TV Sansa and Sandor kissing.

Cause its disgusting. 

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I agree. I completely buy TV Jaime and Brienne's respect and love for each other, and NCW and GC completely sell that side of their relationship, but to me it's never had any sort of sexual vibe. Jaime and Cersei's relationship, on the other hand, had many issues, but a lack of sexual chemistry was never one of them.

Their love to me feels like a platonic one. Two people who understand and respect each other profoundley. Where one inspires the other to be their better self. But that at the end of the day are not meant to be together.

And I think your spot on. It feels weird because there is nothing about Brienne that is sexy. She is like Stannis. Lol. Great comparison. 

But of course that doesn’t mean with the right setting and right moment the actors couldn’t make it work. 

EDIT: the more i think about it the more i convince myself this is going to happen. 

Imagine. Your Jaime. You are single for the first time in your life. Never slept with any other woman. Your with one of the women you love. She clearly loves you. You know you could only have a few days left as death is literally coming for you all. Why the hell woudn’t you try and bang her? Same thing for Brienne. Is there an actual character reason if they have the shot they don’t try and do it?

[larastone]

15 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I honestly can't even picture TV Sansa and Sandor kissing.

 

I agree. I completely buy TV Jaime and Brienne's respect and love for each other, and NCW and GC completely sell that side of their relationship, but to me it's never had any sort of sexual vibe. Jaime and Cersei's relationship, on the other hand, had many issues, but a lack of sexual chemistry was never one of them.

 

I think a lot of it boils down to GC playing Brienne as an even more dour and humourless version of Stannis, and who wants to fuck Stannis?

the main problem with the jaime/cersei relationship on the show was the writing. book jaime/cersei is dysfunctional drama gold but show jaime/cersei has been weird and inconsistent ever since they reunited in season 4. show cersei is awesome, show jaime not so much. but their season 7 scenes together were ok to watch imo. i think its the strongest that Lena and NCW worked together since like season 1 which is funny because if you paid any attention to NCW's interviews its pretty obvious that he basically hated everything about season 7 and its writing lmfao

like i said i think GC is decent but i also agree that with the exception of the scene in which she pledges to sansa in season 6, her performance has never really "moved" me. like the way that actors like alfie allen, lena headey, peter dinklage, NCW in the bath scene, michelle fairley etc have. she's not cringeworthy like aidan gillen or straight up terrible like emilia/sophie/kit but there's notable about her either imo. she's just.....there

[larastone]

27 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Kit/ Emlia worked for me. 

But i wasn’t talking about acting or chemistry. 

And i liked the Jon/ Ygrite relatjonship but the characters had nothing in common. There relationship is very superficial. At least in the show. Don’t remember the books. But basically Jon falls for her because she likes him and they bang. Its like that relationship where you go on vacation, meet someone have great sex but at the end of the day you know this isn’t going anywhere because its not built on shared values and outlook. I can buy Jon being in love with her because he is a kid and its his first time and infatuation is super powerful your first time. 

But this is in contrast to Jon and Dany who were written since the very first season to be on parallel journeys so that as they get to know each other they realize they have almost everything in common. Them falling for each other makes sense because not only are they both super hot but they have 90% of things in common (and about that % of genes too). Its hard not to fall for someone in that scenario. 

hmm idk i still think these have been the most romantic scenes on the show so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuuJp-QzKTA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3cYZPcP93o&t=133s

ultimately jon/ygritte made me "feel~"something.  while jonerys just doesn't

[Chickren]

14 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

You have it down to the episode!

Yeah, this is definitely in the cards. This moment is to set up the big moment where it's Brienne that Jaime really loves.

 I just feel like it will be early, but you know me, I'm not picky. FFS, just get it on already Jaime and Brienne, all these seasons of build up and I'm blueballing like nobody's business.

8 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I agree. I totally see it happening in episode 3 or 4.

Right? Or, are we off and it's actually going to be ep 1 or 2? I feel like Jaime will be dead in/by ep 5, so it has to be earlyish, right? 

[jcmontea]

11 minutes ago, larastone said:

hmm idk i still think these have been the most romantic scenes on the show so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuuJp-QzKTA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3cYZPcP93o&t=133s

ultimately jon/ygritte made me "feel~"something.  while jonerys just doesn't

Those are great scenes for sure. It made me feel something too. And I totally respect it. You either feel something or you don’t. 

But lets say Ygriete lived and Jon somehow got out of his NW vows and became KITN. Do you really see them being a long term relationship? I can’t see it. They are literal opposites and that works for a fling or a short term relationship but i can’t see it lasting more than that. 

[larastone]

8 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Those are great scenes for sure. It made me feel something too. And I totally respect it. You either feel something or you don’t. 

But lets say Ygriete lived and Jon somehow got out of his NW vows and became KITN. Do you really see them being a long term relationship? I can’t see it. They are literal opposites and that works for a fling or a short term relationship but i can’t see it lasting more than that. 

no but more because ygritte is obviously such a minor character. her death was necessary for jon's story. as far as them being opposites too, i think that's kind of the point too. do you think jon would have made the decisions he did in ADWD if he didn't have his relationship with ygritte? i dont think so. 

[jcmontea]

15 minutes ago, larastone said:

no but more because ygritte is obviously such a minor character. her death was necessary for jon's story. as far as them being opposites too, i think that's kind of the point too. do you think jon would have made the decisions he did in ADWD if he didn't have his relationship with ygritte? i dont think so. 

In terms of relative importance and from a narrative perspective yes i agree.

i just meant more as if these were actual people could i see it.

[MinscS2]

9 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

There has been build up, he has saved her many times, and as for the "scary" thing, you should remember than in their last scenes together  she realises he is not gonna hurt her, on the contrary! It's a Beauty and the Beast story, Belle realises that inside the "Beast" there is a man.

That's not really a build up of a romantic relation though, it's just stuff happening.
Sandor clearly had some feelings for Sansa during S2, possibly love, possibly some sort of weird obsession, possibly just lust, but it was never reciprocated.
He saved her from the rapists, he covered her with his cloak when Meryn Trant abused her on Joffrey's orders and he wanted to bring her with him when he left the capital. Her reaction to all of his actions where very muted, almost indifferent. She was probably thankful about it on some level but she never showed any real gratitude towards him and ultimately, she decided to not follow him when he left the capital. 

I won't say that your interpretation of their relationship in S2 is wrong, but I certainly didn't interpret it that way myself, and I feel that a romantic relationship between the two in S8 would come out of the blue. 

9 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

And let's not forget Sansa was married to Tyrion played by Dinklage who is the same age as Rory McCann, and at that time Sophie was a teenager, (actually playing a 14 year-old girl) so I don't think there is any problem for season 8, especially now that both she and her character are adults and Sansa is portrayed as being very mature (season 7 ruling).

Sansa and Tyrion (nor the actors) where never romantically involved. They got married against their will, but they never had sex and they never kissed. The most romantic thing they did was holding hands.
I'd say Peter Dinklage and Sophie Turner holding hands is quite different from seeing Rory McCann and Sophie Turner kissing, let alone filming a sexscene together. 
In show, Tyrion was also very much conflicted about his feelings (or rather his physical attraction) towards Sansa, partly because of the situation she was in (unwilling hostage) but also because of her age.

I must say that I find it slightly amusing that you're clearly bothered by a fictional semi-incest (it's one of the reasons you've stated for not liking Jonerys) but that a real life age-difference of 27 years between actors and 24 years between characters doesn't bother you the slightest.

8 hours ago, jcmontea said:

I actually don’t think there is a problem at all. I am going to go out on a pretty strong limb and say most people either where pro-jonerys or indifferent. They did a survey on reddit and ~67 percent of people gave the season an 8 or above and 62% said the Jon/ Dany storyline was their favorite of the season. Annecdotally I don’t know anyone other than people on chat rooms who disliked the relationship. Now obviously anyone can dislike anything and if you disliked it than that is totally valid. 

But to say its a problem is a bit much. Out in the real world it seems to have worked to such an extent that Dolce and Gabanna have an ad campaign with Kit and Emilia. 

Yes, that reddit poll was quite clear; most people where either pro-Jonerys or indifferent towards Jonerys and very few was actually against Jonerys. Fits well with the people I know irl who watch the show as well; They all either like it or simply don't care, but no one is actually against it.

Love the mention of that ad campaign as well. Clearly their show-relation is not intended (or viewed by the majority) as a problem, despite being semi-incestuous, otherwise the company would never have Kit and Emilia star in the same campaign due to fear of consumer backlash.

8 hours ago, jcmontea said:

What really happend? What in season 2 indicated romance? Based on the show there is no romance. 

People see and interpret what they want to see and interpret. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong.
I'd be very surprised if Sansan ended up happening for real in S8 since I saw no traces of a romantic buildup between them in S2, and now they haven't seen each other for 5 seasons. Whatever possible feeling they had for each other in S2 should've faded by now. Sansa might come to realize and be thankful for the things Sandor did for her in S2, but ...love him? Nah, can't see it.

Jamie and Brienne might have a shot though, even if I'm quite indifferent towards their relationship. I like that Brienne brings out the goodness/honor in Jamie, but from a sexual PoV, I just don't care if they hook up or not.

[larastone]

yes i like to bitch about jonerys because it had the potential to be so so so much better than what we got imo. but ultimately it was too boring and meh to get truly riled up about. 

[Le Cygne]

5 hours ago, Chickren said:

 I just feel like it will be early, but you know me, I'm not picky. FFS, just get it on already Jaime and Brienne, all these seasons of build up and I'm blueballing like nobody's business.

Oh I agree, episode 3 is not too early at all, after they've had all this time apart to think about their feelings for each other, they are both more than ready. It's the big payoff in a Beauty and the Beast story, and even the crappy show is going to do it up big.

[Le Cygne]

11 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yeah, and back on topic, I think that with the long episodes we will have plenty of time to see how Jaime (and also Sansa) react when they see their "beasts" in Winterfell after that time being separated. Sandor will realise that his bird has grown up.

Yeah, that's going to be so good, the payoff of the long building Beauty and the Beast stories. And there's nothing keeping them apart anymore, the show has all the ducks in a row for both pairings, both Sansa/Sandor and Jaime/Brienne are free and about to meet again.

I thought of more period romances where there's an age gap, it's a very common plot device. Show it's 22 years between Sansa and Sandor (he's 35 in season 1 per the pilot script). Books it's 15 years between both Sansa/Sandor and Jaime/Brienne (he parallels the two pairings in many ways).

Jane Eyre is another one GRRM likes, that's 20+ years. And even later romances, there's Rebecca, which is really popular, a 20+ year difference. It's part of the story, sexual awakening and the play between experience and inexperience. And GRRM loves playing with age gaps.

Tale as old as time, there are wonderful themes in Beauty and the Beast, the illusion of beauty and seeing beneath the surface, in the case of Sansa and Jaime, those were big lessons, and GRRM of course is playing up the beast within as a metaphor for sexuality (more on that here).

The show has been dismal on an artistic level, but Benioff and Weiss wouldn't miss the payoff to these two stories for anything, and even they can't completely mess the ending up, and they know lots of us are looking forward to seeing it all play out on screen. (The books will be lots better, of course!)

[Meera of Tarth]

44 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh I agree, episode 3 is not too early at all, after thJaime had all this time apart to think about their feelings for each other, they are both more than ready. It's the big payoff in a Beauty and the Beast story, and even the crappy show is going to do it up big.

I can not wait to see them kissing ir banging. After all these seasona with sexual tension and thr discovery that they are each others perfect matches.....with true love based on resPect loyalty and being better persons thanka to the influence of thw other especiallu Jaimr

[Le Cygne]

11 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Well, I could say the same for Jonerys, so I suppose when it happens viewers will have to adapt.

Ditto. Both actors barfed on the official show video. This series likes to go there with all sorts of things. Beauty and the Beast? Age gaps? That's nothing compared to incest.

 

[larastone]

Lmao I bet the Sophie/Rory McCann barfs would be 50 times worse than kit and Emilia's if they had to do a Sansan scene 

[Le Cygne]

Lmao I bet not. Rory said about the love yeah there might be, and Sophie said one day she'll realize he's the one she always dreamed of. I guess since they are not related and all...

[Newstar]

9 hours ago, beauty6 said:

@Newstar, just to make it clear, I am the shipper of the two. Although motivated by their parallel versions. But you are right, the "no no no" feelings have definitely been there during the "fuck loyalties" scene. Also during the Riverrun discussion.

I've been there with other pairings; I was all in on this or that ship, but the minute they kissed, it was game over. (One of them had the most awkward, cringeworthy first kiss I've ever seen. Ugh.) I haven't gotten full body cringe with Jaime and Brienne yet--although the Riverrun discussion came close--but if they actually kiss, I'm guessing it won't go well.

 

9 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Their love to me feels like a platonic one. Two people who understand and respect each other profoundley. Where one inspires the other to be their better self. But that at the end of the day are not meant to be together.

And I think your spot on. It feels weird because there is nothing about Brienne that is sexy. She is like Stannis. Lol. Great comparison. 

But of course that doesn’t mean with the right setting and right moment the actors couldn’t make it work. 

It's possible, sure, but if a Jaime/Brienne hookup happens, it's going to be awkward and weird.

 

8 hours ago, larastone said:

like i said i think GC is decent but i also agree that with the exception of the scene in which she pledges to sansa in season 6, her performance has never really "moved" me. like the way that actors like alfie allen, lena headey, peter dinklage, NCW in the bath scene, michelle fairley etc have. she's not cringeworthy like aidan gillen or straight up terrible like emilia/sophie/kit but there's notable about her either imo. she's just.....there

GC seems to have decided that she wants to play Brienne one very specific, limited way and rarely deviates from that. She has her moments--I quite liked the bit where Brienne fills Pod in on why she was so loyal to Renly--but overall, GC leaves me cold.

 

5 hours ago, larastone said:

yes i like to bitch about jonerys because it had the potential to be so so so much better than what we got imo. but ultimately it was too boring and meh to get truly riled up about. 

We could have had it alllllllllll (rolling in the deeeeeeeeep). But seriously, yes, it could have been so much better.

 

18 minutes ago, larastone said:

Lmao I bet the Sophie/Rory McCann barfs would be 50 times worse than kit and Emilia's if they had to do a Sansan scene 

Poor Rory McCann got really uncomfortable at SanSan-type questions back in S2. He was all "I'VE MET HER PARENTS." 

[Meera of Tarth]

11 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, that's going to be so good, the payoff of the long building Beauty and the Beast stories. And there's nothing keeping them apart anymore, the show has all the ducks in a row for both pairings, both Sansa/Sandor and Jaime/Brienne are free and about to meet again.

I thought of more period romances where there's an age gap, it's a very common plot device. Show it's 22 years between Sansa and Sandor (he's 35 in season 1 per the pilot script). Books it's 15 years between both Sansa/Sandor and Jaime/Brienne (he parallels the two pairings in many ways).

Jane Eyre is another one GRRM likes, that's 20+ years. And even later romances, there's Rebecca, which is really popular, a 20+ year difference. It's part of the story, sexual awakening and the play between experience and inexperience. And GRRM loves playing with age gaps.

Tale as old as time, there are wonderful themes in Beauty and the Beast, the illusion of beauty and seeing beneath the surface, in the case of Sansa and Jaime, those were big lessons, and GRRM of course is playing up the beast within as a metaphor for sexuality (more on that here).

The show has been dismal on an artistic level, but Benioff and Weiss wouldn't miss the payoff to these two stories for anything, and even they can't completely mess the ending up, and they know lots of us are looking forward to seeing it all play out on screen. (The books will be lots better, of course!)

Yeah 15 years in both pairings in the books (just 5 more in the show for sansan and 10 less in the show for jb). Age gaps are not a problem conaidering thay are adults and it is based on  Medieval times and the casting shows it cause their focus was not the age gap but choosing the perfect actors (everyine is aged differently than in the books). The problem some people might have is that they are not accustomed to see a man with scars or a woman with short hair making love. Fortunately, many people will like it because good romances are good to see.