Meera of Tarth Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Yeah, I think they will play up the humor, that's the best way, to go with the fumbling guy is out of his depth and doesn't know how to act, but the more he messes up the more she likes him kind of romances. I'd love to see it! 2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Yeah, more natural costumes, a variety of fabrics and colors, and flattering lines (ditch the eighties shoulder pads). These are for KL, where the evil Queen lives and Qyburn is not good at clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 5 hours ago, Lysander said: I think when you put 2 + 2 together regarding what the show and the books have both respectively hinted at regarding Jaime's fate, it's pretty clear that he'll die when Cersei does, or soon after. He's going to be the one to end her life, and they'll leave the world in the same manner they entered it: together. A prophetic dream symbolizing a character's impending doom is GRRM's style of foreshadowing, and having another character blatantly spell it out in dialogue is D&D's style of foreshadowing. You'd have to have blinders on to miss it, imho. Its not as clear as that. If you notice in Jaime's dream, Cesei says 'when they die so must you'. She doesn't say Jaime dies when his flames die. And Jaime woke up before he saw what happens next. If the show says that Jaime and Cersei's fates are intertwined, its not surprising since they've been together for seven seasons. It doesn't mean Jaime has to die with Cersei. It could mean Jaime kills Cersei and that act determines what Jaime does next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapphire_lion Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: Yeah everything will come to the right place as a good romance. I mean, all this sexual tension has to lead to somewhere. And it's so beautiful because it has been developed gradually, as a good romance. I particularly love that here the Beauty is Brienne and Jaime is a Beast like in the tale, she helps him become a good person, the knight he really had to be, instead of what he had become. Alternatively, we can also see Jaime as a Beauty falling in love with a "Beast" in terms of looks, because he finds the true beauty inside (the opposite of Cersei), although in his subcounscious she also becomes more beautiful in the outside for him. George is really good at writing it and the actors will do an amazing job with the rest of their story. THIS is pretty much GRRM's mission statement for Jaime and Brienne. The construction of their character arcs coming together has been breathtaking imo. All the kudos to GRRM. I know most everyone has seen the Gwen quotes, but for those who have not, here ya go. Quote "George R.R. Martin said what he wanted to do was to take the traditional format of Beauty and the Beast and change the roles — and also the genders." - Gwendoline Christie [GRRM] also said that when he wrote the story of Jamie and Brienne, he was taking the formula of Beauty and the Beast and turning it on its head. He wanted to see what it was like for the man to be the beauty and the woman to be the beast and how that would play out." - Gwendoline Christie "I spoke to George R.R. Martin about this, and he said that it was always his intention with Jaime and Brienne to take the classic Beauty and the Beast story, and turn it on its head. Brienne is not ‘unconventionally attractive’, she’s ugly, and she’s ugly to society. She is the beast." - Gwendoline Christie Also, I think it's so true to life that Brienne "the Beast/Beauty" is becoming physically attractive to Jaime, even if outwardly she is anything but. It does happen. Even if it's not the norm. Love can be transcendent. Well, true love, anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 17 minutes ago, Lysander said: I would be very surprised if Jaime and Brienne ended up having a sex scene. A confession of mutual admiration/longing? Sure. A kiss? Eh, maybe. But I honestly don't see those characters having a full on-screen consummation a la Jon/Dany or Robb/Talisa. Maybe it's because of the particular chemistry of the actors or how their characters are written, but I still don't get the sense that the Jaime/Brienne subplot is supposed to be straightforwardly romantic in the sense of the other romances. It seems to me that their relationship is more about mutually inspiring one another to be better at their given role in life than swooning, raging passion. I can see the angle of the loss of innocence on Brienne's part, but to me that doesn't necessitate sex, necessarily. Either way, they're not going to end up married with 2.5 kids. There has been foreshadowing about JB having sex. Bronn said they'd fuck each other. So I don't think its incredible to think it might happen on screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 10 hours ago, Apoplexy said: Its not as clear as that. If you notice in Jaime's dream, Cesei says 'when they die so must you'. She doesn't say Jaime dies when his flames die. And Jaime woke up before he saw what happens next. If the show says that Jaime and Cersei's fates are intertwined, its not surprising since they've been together for seven seasons. It doesn't mean Jaime has to die with Cersei. It could mean Jaime kills Cersei and that act determines what Jaime does next. Oh please. Olenna spent her dying moments spelling out to the audience that Jaime will come to regret his role in helping Cersei rise to power and that she "will be the end of him". This fandom has had this conversation every year since Season 5. D&D clearly foreshadow a future event using unambiguous dialogue ---> fans try to dispute the clear and logical implication of that foreshadowing because it goes against what they personally would like to happen ----> fans are disappointed when, to the surprise of no one who was paying attention, that clearly foreshadowed event comes to pass. It happened with R+L=J, it happened with Stannis burning Shireen, it happened with the Jon + Dany hook up, etc ad nauseum. And it's going to happen with Jon + Dany's eventual baby, it's going to happen when the defeat of the Night King ends up killing the whole AotD, and it's going to happen when Jaime takes out Cersei once and for all, and dies with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 16 minutes ago, sapphire_lion said: Also, I think it's so true to life that Brienne "the Beast/Beauty" is becoming physically attractive to Jaime, even if outwardly she is anything but. It does happen. Even if it's not the norm. Love can be transcendent. Well, true love, anyways. Jaime seems like the sentimental type. He has been loyal to Cersei despite of her being married. I don't think it was just because she is pretty. And Jaime could've slept with almost anyone he wanted to. If anybody in the series can see beyond external 'beauty', I think its Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, Lysander said: Oh please. Olenna spent her dying moments spelling out to the audience that Jaime will come to regret his role in helping Cersei rise to power and that she "will be the end of him". And Jaime replies 'its beyond his control'. Yet he takes control and leaves Cersei to do the right thing. Maybe he took Olenna's advice and left before she became the end of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Lysander said: Oh please. Olenna spent her dying moments spelling out to the audience that Jaime will come to regret his role in helping Cersei rise to power and that she "will be the end of him". This fandom has had this conversation every year since Season 5. D&D clearly foreshadow a future event using unambiguous dialogue ---> fans try to dispute the clear and logical implication of that foreshadowing because it goes against what they personally would like to happen ----> fans are disappointed when, to the surprise of no one who was paying attention, that clearly foreshadowed event comes to pass. It happen with R+L=J, it happened with Stannis burning Shireen, it happened with the Jon + Dany hook up, etc ad nauseum. And it's going to happen with Jon + Dany's eventual baby, it's going to happen when the defeat of the Night King ends up killing the whole AotD, and it's going to happen when Jaime takes out Cersei once and for all, and dies with her. lol nailed it. i still remember how much people argued that jon/dany wouldn't hook up last year. and lets not forget olenna point blank said "lol you gonna kill everyone cersei"? in season 6 and thats exactly what cersei did 3 episodes later lmao. so why would the same now happen with olenna's "she'll be the end of you" from season 7? how people are not able to recognize D&D's writing style at this point i have no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 21 minutes ago, larastone said: and lets not forget olenna point blank said "lol you gonna kill everyone cersei"? in season 6 and thats exactly what cersei did 3 episodes later lmao. so why would the same now happen with olenna's "she'll be the end of you" from season 7? how people are not able to recognize D&D's writing style at this point i have no idea The difference here is that Jaime seems to have taken Olena's advice and has left Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapphire_lion Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 35 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: I can totally picture Nik's face when he is portraying Jaime's reaction! It would be awesome to see!!! Yes! They will get to know each other in a private way, in WF....(that will have plenty of food supplies and such as it is established in s7) so, before the wws arrive, there's a lot to see there! Furiously jealous Jaime is going to be a dream to watch. And it's going to be amazing when they finally get intimate. They've been setting it up for years. Quote Episode Commentaries: Season 3: Over the “we don’t get to choose who we love” scene when Brienne is holding Jaime by the hair: “An unexpected moment of tenderness between them, foreshadowing what may happen.” -Daniel Minahan (Director, 3x2) "We wanted to plant a little seed here. For the first time, she addresses him as “Ser Jaime”, and that doesn’t go unnoticed. I think what we’re trying to do is put a little tiny spark between the two. Whether it’s romantic or not, we don’t know yet but she saved his life, and what they’ve gone through now has taken it to another stage. From being enemies to being friends and potentially more" -Michelle MacLaren (Director, 3x7) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jxdRxzj_5w Season 4: Michelle MacLaren (Director, 4x4): I love the relationship between these two because I think they actually love each other, I really do. I think she’s in love with him and I think that Jaime has such a huge regard for her. I think there’s a part of him that loves her too. It's such a sweet romance. Robert McLachlan (cinematographer): So poignant. MacLaren: It is. I think that when they say goodbye here, to me it’s like a love that never gets to... at least in this episode gets to... I don’t know what’s going to happen in the future... McLachlan: I got a real sense here that neither one of them thinks they are ever going to see each other again. MacLaren: Yeah, exactly. I think we shot it as if two people who love each other are saying goodbye forever. http://virgin-who-cannot-drive.tumblr.com/post/110913875467/got-s4-commentaries-director-michelle-maclaren Season 6: "Brienne of Tarth and Ser Jaime Lannister is the ultimate love story to me. I find it quite beautiful." - Mark Mylod (Director, 6x8) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7KIYcSBtnGJQktoT29EaHgyMmc/view “It’s yours. It will always be yours.” Mark Mylod: I love that line. Essie Davis: Aww... Mark Mylod and Davis: [laugh] Essie Davis: He loves her. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau: My heart... Mark Mylod: He’s talking about his heart, you know. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau: Of course he is. Essie Davis: What about his sister? Mark Mylod: [Laughs] Nikolaj Coster-Waldau: That’s ... I don’t know what that is anymore. https://vid.me/o4oY And then they just had Bronn spell it out. Love how Nik explains that scene: Quote "(Bronn’s lines) feed…the subtext of the scene we’re about to see, because **clearly there is something going on between Jaime and Brienne**, and clearly it’s something they can’t act on. Maybe in a very secret moment." - Nikolaj Coster-Waldau They'll have their secret moment curled up together in the snowy North. I also love how Director Mark Mylod describes the reluctant sexual tension between Jaime and Brienne. So on the money. Quote “The extraordinary thing for me is that they create such a beautiful, dramatic tension in any two-shot that has Nikolaj and Gwendoline. The way they use their eyes to either connect or disconnect — to avoid each other’s eyes — is so great. They play the black notes of their scenes so beautifully. But here’s the thing: as soon as you say “cut,” they become the best of mates who just rip the piss out of each other continuously. They’re really good friends. They’re so light, and such fun together. Whenever there’s a day with them, I know it’s going to be great, because they’re just going to be taking the piss out of each other from start to finish. Gwendoline has the most extraordinarily, fantastically contagious laugh in the world. It’s just this odd day of having the most fun and creasing up laughing so much, and yet, as soon as we say “action,” they switch into this wonderful sexual tension and this wonderful sense of yearning and beautiful layers of unspoken subtext between them. As actors, they understand that connection so instinctively that it was one of my easiest days as a director. They know that relationship and understand it, and there’s something about that chemistry these two actors have that fans those flames in the most intoxicating way.” - Mark Mylod (Director) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapphire_lion Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: And Jaime replies 'its beyond his control'. Yet he takes control and leaves Cersei to do the right thing. Maybe he took Olenna's advice and left before she became the end of him. #fuckloyalty He literally takes his destiny into his own hands (hand?), faces the threat of death, and walks away from what Olenna said would be the end of him. And all because he's determined to do the right thing. Way to go Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 14 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: The difference here is that Jaime seems to have taken Olena's advice and has left Cersei. cersei isn't dead yet though. and its clear as day that jaime and cersei will see each other again in season 8. and after being with cersei for seven 7 seasons i doubt jaime just gets to walk away from that relationship scot-free the season 7 finale really highlighted that cersei's relationships with both her brothers is super complicated. its really important that cersei was unable to kill either jaime or tyrion when she had the chance. thats obviously going to end up biting her in the ass, but cersei isn't the type to go down without a fight either lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmontea Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 32 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: There has been foreshadowing about JB having sex. Bronn said they'd fuck each other. So I don't think its incredible to think it might happen on screen. Yea. That def feels like foreshadowing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmontea Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 30 minutes ago, Lysander said: Oh please. Olenna spent her dying moments spelling out to the audience that Jaime will come to regret his role in helping Cersei rise to power and that she "will be the end of him". This fandom has had this conversation every year since Season 5. D&D clearly foreshadow a future event using unambiguous dialogue ---> fans try to dispute the clear and logical implication of that foreshadowing because it goes against what they personally would like to happen ----> fans are disappointed when, to the surprise of no one who was paying attention, that clearly foreshadowed event comes to pass. It happen with R+L=J, it happened with Stannis burning Shireen, it happened with the Jon + Dany hook up, etc ad nauseum. And it's going to happen with Jon + Dany's eventual baby, it's going to happen when the defeat of the Night King ends up killing the whole AotD, and it's going to happen when Jaime takes out Cersei once and for all, and dies with her. This! This is a show that foreshadows almost everything. If it foreshadows something once it could be nothing. Twice then maybe a red herring. Multiple times and its likely going to happen. Cersei and Jaime at this point is in the heavily foreshadowed category. Maybe it does not happen. But i would not hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 36 minutes ago, Lysander said: Oh please. Olenna spent her dying moments spelling out to the audience that Jaime will come to regret his role in helping Cersei rise to power and that she "will be the end of him". This fandom has had this conversation every year since Season 5. D&D clearly foreshadow a future event using unambiguous dialogue ---> fans try to dispute the clear and logical implication of that foreshadowing because it goes against what they personally would like to happen ----> fans are disappointed when, to the surprise of no one who was paying attention, that clearly foreshadowed event comes to pass. It happen with R+L=J, it happened with Stannis burning Shireen, it happened with the Jon + Dany hook up, etc ad nauseum. And it's going to happen with Jon + Dany's eventual baby, it's going to happen when the defeat of the Night King ends up killing the whole AotD, and it's going to happen when Jaime takes out Cersei once and for all, and dies with her. Yes. Nailed it! 16 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: The difference here is that Jaime seems to have taken Olena's advice and has left Cersei. So what? Olenna's statement "She'll be the end of you" wasn't conditional upon Jaime staying with Cersei. She didn't say "If you don't do something about it, she'll be the end of you" or "She'll be the end of you, unless you leave her." It's going to happen no matter what. Jaime is doomed, and Cersei will be the death of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 12 minutes ago, sapphire_lion said: #fuckloyalty He literally takes his destiny into his own hands, faces the threat of death, and walks away from what Olenna said would be the end of him. And all because he's determined to do the right thing. Way to go Jaime. What I found interesting about that scene is that Brienne doesn't usually swear. There was raw emotion in the way Brienne and Jaime spoke to each other in the dragon pit (a lot of it can be attributed to the chemistry between NCW and GC). Brienne asks Jaime to talk to the queen. And in the very next scene Jaime goes to talk to the queen. She of course throws him out and then speaks to Tyrion. It seems at this stage, Jaime's actions are swayed more by Brienne than by Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 15 minutes ago, sapphire_lion said: Furiously jealous Jaime is going to be a dream to watch. And it's going to be amazing when they finally get intimate. They've been setting it up for years. And then they just had Bronn spell it out. Love how Nik explains that scene: They'll have their secret moment curled up together in the snowy North. I also love how Director Mark Mylod describes the reluctant sexual tension between Jaime and Brienne. So on the money. Thanks for this posts! I was not aware of all the commentaries! WOW. It's just amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: What I found interesting about that scene is that Brienne doesn't usually swear. There was raw emotion in the way Brienne and Jaime spoke to each other in the dragon pit (a lot of it can be attributed to the chemistry between NCW and GC). Brienne asks Jaime to talk to the queen. And in the very next scene Jaime goes to talk to the queen. She of course throws him out and then speaks to Tyrion. It seems at this stage, Jaime's actions are swayed more by Brienne than by Cersei. Yeah, he literally repeats the same words that Brienne uses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapphire_lion Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 44 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: There has been foreshadowing about JB having sex. Bronn said they'd fuck each other. So I don't think its incredible to think it might happen on screen. The attraction is palpable and the sex so heavily foreshadowed. Quote "Yeah, what I like about it is the scene just before Brienne and Jaime, between Bronn and Podrick, when Bronn says, “Do you think they’re fucking? I know he wants to fuck her. And I’m sure she wants to fuck him, too. So what do you think?” Because it’s that thing when two people are attracted to each other but they refuse to acknowledge that whole elephant in the room, and for everyone else around them it’s pretty obvious." - Nikolaj Coster-Waldau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Newstar said: Yes. Nailed it! So what? Olenna's statement "She'll be the end of you" wasn't conditional upon Jaime staying with Cersei. She didn't say "If you don't do something about it, she'll be the end of you" or "She'll be the end of you, unless you leave her." It's going to happen no matter what. Jaime is doomed, and Cersei will be the death of him. its hilarious to me how much male characters get away with lol. show jaime literally impregenates cersei even after she mass murders 100s of innocents, but he leaves her so that just makes all right in the world and makes him a heroic saint who only deserves good things from now on lol. give me a break. jaime may want redemption but he's a POS who deserves to die. he's responsible for so much pain and death and his relationship with cersei is a mutually destructive toxic mess that should burn out in a tragic fiery climax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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