Director Mark Mylod on this week's episode

[NutBurz]

2 minutes ago, ummester said:

Perhaps Bran put his boat in a time bubble - in which Gendry is trapped repeating 'just keep rowing, just keep rowing'.

He must be going to join Daenarys, but it would just be too boring to put a little take of him rowing in like 25 episodes in a row.

I miss the time-travel times, I was on the other team, that´s pathetic writing.

[ummester]

1 minute ago, NutBurz said:

He must be going to join Daenarys, but it would just be too boring to put a little take of him rowing in like 25 episodes in a row.

I miss the time-travel times, I was on the other team, that´s pathetic writing.

Oh yes, in this kind of story, time travel is a cop out - no way around it. You don't have this massive interconnected, intricate character driven plot line at the start - just to throw it away on time travel. What is this Lost?

I remember GRRM and Damen Lindelof having their bitch session on Twitter or whatever - when GRRM was saying my show won't end as bad as Lost and Lindelof was raving on about Winter still coming. I mean Lindy is a proven (and self confessed) hack, it will be embarrassing if GRRM and GoTs have to eat their words to the likes of him.

[NutBurz]

Absolutely agreed.

[Lothar]

13 hours ago, NutBurz said:

So let me explain in details what I meant, because again, I´m not saying he think she confessed to incest.

-It´s been estabilished before that the rumours regarding the incest are everywhere. Anyone with half a proof would have the entire realm and a treason accusation of leverage over them in case they were blackmailed.

-Maegary Tyrrel was not actually guilty of anything in the show before she swore the wrong thing on trial, and any account of the scene leads to that interpretation. She was set-up at closed doors.

-Cersei is accused of and confesses to sexual crimes, and is publicly humiliated. Jaime is not there to see her imprisioned, he doesn´t witness her breaking up, all he knows he that she accepted that unthinkable humiliation for the sake of her son. He must suppose that people threatened her with something equally unthinkable, like revealing the incest with some sort of proof.

-We know Cersei is almost purely evil, but Jaime, like he says in the last episode, ignores most things writing them off as her being a "fierce mother". She is the mother of his children, they are being murdered in series, how would he not admire her for being fierce? He dropped a kid from a tower, his morals are extremely schewed.

-The same way Margaery was set-up, in Jaime´s mind the High-Sparrow could have set Cersei up using Lancel to lie about sleeping with the Queen. A lie Cersei would have confessed to in order not to have a worse truth revealed.

Jaime just hearing that she was on trial for it and she confessed would be enough to plant doubts and change the relationship, even if he believed it was a lie.  Like in the books.  He didn't want to believe what Tyrion said.  He told himself that he was lying.  But the thought nagged at him in every conversation he had with Cersei after that.

I don't think Cersei is evil at all, especially not in the show.  I'm actually rooting for her against the Sparrows and the Sand Snakes. I felt bad when she did the Walk of Shame and when she found out her daughter died.

[kissdbyfire]

On 15/06/2016 at 7:10 PM, Cas Stark said:

These people are DEMENTED.

So, the Blackfish carries shame that he wasn't at the right place at the right time to save his family.  Therefore, when his family asks for his help in saving them...he tells them to fuck off.

I guess when you remember these are the people that had the Sand Snakes take revenge for their dead Martell relatives by killing the rest of their Martell relatives...it makes sense that this would be their take.

At least they're consistent, all motivations for characters to do 'whatever' make zero sense. It's a gift. 

[Cas Stark]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

At least they're consistent, all motivations for characters to do 'whatever' make zero sense. It's a gift. 

LOL, I guess one silver lining of the show is that no matter how nihilistic GRRM's end is, it can't possibly be as nihlistic as the show is...though I'm sticking to my pledge of refusing to read any more of the series if he kills the wolves.  I'll have to make do w/summaries.  I'm Team Direwolf through and through.

[kissdbyfire]

18 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

LOL, I guess one silver lining of the show is that no matter how nihilistic GRRM's end is, it can't possibly be as nihlistic as the show is...though I'm sticking to my pledge of refusing to read any more of the series if he kills the wolves.  I'll have to make do w/summaries.  I'm Team Direwolf through and through.

Hell, yeah. And the beauty is, it applies to ending in general, not just in terms of how nihilistic it is. I still find it very amusing how there's an apparent huge disconnect among those directly involved, ie, writers, directors, and actors. We've seen it with most episodes. where the director/actor say one thing in an interview, only to have Mr Benioff and Mr Weiss state the opposite elsewhere. Remember Roose's death? How McElhatton said Ramsay decided to kill Roose in a spur-of-the-moment decision, and one of the show runners said he had planned it all carefully in advance. LOL

[NutBurz]

1 hour ago, Lothar said:

Jaime just hearing that she was on trial for it and she confessed would be enough to plant doubts and change the relationship, even if he believed it was a lie. 

Nope, not in character at all. Like you said, book Jaime barely believes Tyrion who is one of the, what, three people he loves and trusts in the world. He can´t help but to wonder since it comes from Tyrion, but he would certainly pay no mind if it came from mostly anyone. Show Jaime is clearly a little paranoid, he thinks everyone wants to take things from him and Cersei, he would write off any small rumour on that account.

 

But I guess it´s pointless to just repeat that over and over. By all means, go on with your concepts.

[Lothar]

If Jaime pays no mind at all to an accusation made which is confessed to, then he is certainly an idiot.  I don't think that's Jaime's character.

[NutBurz]

19 minutes ago, Lothar said:

If Jaime pays no mind at all to an accusation made which is confessed to, then he is certainly an idiot.  I don't think that's Jaime's character.

C´mon, he´s just as much of an idiot as to fall in love with his sister. He´s extremely good looking and rich and skilled and he never considered sleeping with another woman. He has no reason to believe Cersei was any different since she even disliked Robert Baratheon who had been every girl´s wet dream before Jaime himself. We have Cersei´s POV but he doesn´t.

What we know is that he´s even willing to come public about it. If this is a man prepared to face the backlash of incest, this is a man prepared to ignore rumours from people he barely even pays attention to. In his mind, the common folk see them as aberrations - if they screw their own siblings, they would screw just about anybody. Something Jaime knows about himself not to be true, so he projects on Cersei.

 

Show´s Jaime goes through a humbling process in the Brienne´s arc that´s not finished in his "final" confrontation of Cersei when he releases Tyrion.

That solid seed of doubt was not planted in there by someone important enough, so what we´re seeing is Jaime being fooled into believing further and further that Cersei is going through the same humbling process he did, when we know that´s not true.

That´s why their show relation seems to have come and gone a little more than in the books - it´s shaken by him losing his hand and the effects that had on both Brienne and Cersei, so they conflict until Tyrion. While in Books Tyrion is the agent of the Break Up, by telling the truth and killing their father, in the series Tyrion is the agent of the Reconciliation by just killing their father and giving them something to unite around.

Show Jaime is absolutely certain he did the wrong thing by releasing Tyrion and that  plus the lack of his father pushes him towards hoping for Cersei´s redemption - which he believes he already went through, probably.