[Spoilers] EP609

[Mendoza]

1 hour ago, Cormac- First of His Name said:

Side bar - did anyone else think it was weird that Dany was able to control Viserion and Rhaegal during the the attack on the ships? They looked sort of like they were attacking in formation, but how could Dany have that influence over them after bonding with Drogon?

I thought that was a case of Drogon being the alpha and them falling in line with his actions.

[IamMe90]

Is it just me, or did the, uh, "atmospheric disturbances," if you wanna call 'em that, look like they targeted pretty much only Bolton men (if not straight up all)? I had initially attributed these bizarre, but seemingly very enemy oriented deaths To the burning of Shireen. That is, it didn't really have its full (or any?) effect/power at the battle that took place with Stannis because Stannis isn't he PTWP and isn't incredidibly important to the back story. Once Jon becomes commander of the army and attacks, voila, pretty much of the cavalry, which they even made a point of explaining the big difference cavalry can make near the beginning, Also, the melting snow from the previous season when Stannis approaches Winterfull could have definitely been a red herring. Well anyway, on the inside the epsiode D&D just want on about war is in large part like. Do they mean it's lucky for the army that Jon Snow is the head of it because him being in command activated the power of the sacrifice? Or are they just saying that the atmospheric disturbances were random natural acts?

[lancerman]

36 minutes ago, caravaggio said:

I have nothing to base this on, but I think maybe you can replace Jon with Stannis in the battle of the bastards and that will be how it goes in the book (with a few changes for sure). Maybe Jon is never a part of the battle to retake Winterfell just like he wasn't at Hardhome in the books.

I think there's like a zero percent chance that Stannis makes it out of that plotline alive.

[boodofmyblood]

I loved the episode. Pretty much everything.

As far as Sansa: I don't buy that she didn't tell Jon about the Vale because he was underestimating Ramsay. I highly doubt she would have been assuming Jon would underestimate Ramsay in advance way back when she first decided not to tell Jon about the Vale being an option. They even had Brienne specifically point out Sansa's refusal to tell Jon as strange if she trusts him. LF manipulated her into distrusting Jon with his last comment about him being only her half brother. She's not out from under LF's influence.

Of course she couldn't count on the Vale showing up in time or for sure but there's no reason she couldn't mention it was a possibility. If she had, Jon would have probably been willing to wait longer. Jon had no clue, what did she expect? I guess I think they're definitely going somewhere with this so I'm not criticizing the writing, I think all this speaks to the direction Sansa is headed currently. It's not just her distrust of Jon, it's also her near nonchalance about Rickon (of course she was right but only just a while ago she used Rickon's situation to get Jon to agree to go up against Ramsay in the first place), and her comments about how "no one can protect anyone." The change in her is understandable after what she's gone through, but I think she's already starting to make mistakes because of it, even if it got her what she wanted for now. I'm not so sure Sansa isn't going to listen to LF in the next episode after he's obviously had a big effect on her. At least at first. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by boodofmyblood

[Lord Freddy Blackfyre]

I think Sansa knew that The Vale army would attack, she was just waiting for Jon and Rickon to die. She looks disappointed when she saw Jon running after Ramsey.

And to those who are saying that Jon was stupid in falling in Ramsey's trap, well unlike Lady Bolton Jon Snow care for his family, it would have been completely out of character if Jon didn't try to save his little brother.

[Forlong the Fat]

1 minute ago, Lord Freddy Blackfyre said:

I think Sansa knew that The Vale army would attack, she was just waiting for Jon and Rickon to die. She looks disappointed when she saw Jon running after Ramsey.

And to those who are saying that Jon was stupid in falling in Ramsey's trap, well unlike Lady Bolton Jon Snow care for his family, it would have been completely out of character if Jon didn't try to save his little brother.

I think that's going way too far. Sansa has certainly become more calculating than Jon (she learned from LF, after all). To suggest she wishes ill on Jon or anyone else in her family is a real stretch. And Jon could stand a bit more calculation. Might've kept him from being killed the first time. 

[Ordos]

Jon's punches to Ramsay was very satisfying. It reminded me of the scene in Blood Diamond where Solomon bashes the head of that RUF commanded with a shovel. Bashing your tormentor's head in a fit of rage feels so good. And Ramsay being eaten by his own dogs was like the Nazis in the theater in the film Inglorious Basterds. 

[TheGreenBell]

9 minutes ago, Lord Freddy Blackfyre said:

she was just waiting for Jon and Rickon to die. She looks disappointed when she saw Jon running after Ramsey.

 

She didn't look that sad when she saw Rickon's body too. hmmmm

[Red Tiger]

1 minute ago, TheGreenBell said:

She didn't look that sad when she saw Rickon's body too. hmmmm

She knew it was coming, she knew the minute she heard Ramsay had Rickon in his dungeon.

[Morna The Maid]

My God...I am aghast. Just...the more I read all evening, the more aghast I am. I knew it would be bad but not this bad. The lengths Dave and Dan are going to make everyone hate Sansa. You are suggesting that the show clearly indictes that Sansa not only thew Rickon under the bus just for the sake of power, but that she clearly wanted Jon dead as well? Is there no end to Dave and Dan's utter hate for this character? And by extension, the Starks? Why is this, why, why, w, why, WHY!!>?!

 

For those who haven't read the books, show Sansa is acting exactly like book Cersei is at this point in the story. When we read the Walk of Shame chapter in the books, nobody feels sorry for her; instead we are glad she gets her comeuppance. It's what she deserves for doing horrible things. Next thing you know, we'll see Sansa in Season 7 ordering the torture of people.

At this point in the books, Sansa is with LF in the Vale, she never goes to WF and LF has not yet thought of it. The Vale is a place of rest and respite for her after the horrors of KL. She is navigating a strange relationship with LF posing as his bastard daughter, but he acts as a father for the most part; she is on a redemption arc and learning to car for others conequences of actions. She is learning the fine art of flirting with boys her age. She is learning the fine art of politics and white lying, but she is not mean, malicious etc. IN many aspects she acts  the young teenage virgin girl she is. Book Sansa might become--with enough abuse--the cold, calculating, bitter Sansa of the show, which is doingits best to turn her into book Cersei. But I doubt it. D/D never had a kind bone in Sansa's body or thought in her head.

 

 

[lancerman]

5 minutes ago, Morna The Maid said:

My God...I am aghast. Just...the more I read all evening, the more aghast I am. I knew it would be bad but not this bad. The lengths Dave and Dan are going to make everyone hate Sansa. You are suggesting that the show clearly indictes that Sansa not only thew Rickon under the bus just for the sake of power, but that she clearly wanted Jon dead as well? Is there no end to Dave and Dan's utter hate for this character? And by extension, the Starks? Why is this, why, why, w, why, WHY!!>

 

 

 

You should just watch it because there is precisely zero evidence to either claim. She said Rickon was dead the second Ramsay got his hands on him and she was right. Ramsay was never letting Rickon make it out of that battle. And if she wanted Jon dead, she did a shit job of it by having the Vale army save him.

[Forlong the Fat]

24 minutes ago, Morna The Maid said:

My God...I am aghast. Just...the more I read all evening, the more aghast I am. I knew it would be bad but not this bad. The lengths Dave and Dan are going to make everyone hate Sansa. You are suggesting that the show clearly indictes that Sansa not only thew Rickon under the bus just for the sake of power, but that she clearly wanted Jon dead as well? Is there no end to Dave and Dan's utter hate for this character? And by extension, the Starks? Why is this, why, why, w, why, WHY!!>?!

 

For those who haven't read the books, show Sansa is acting exactly like book Cersei is at this point in the story. When we read the Walk of Shame chapter in the books, nobody feels sorry for her; instead we are glad she gets her comeuppance. It's what she deserves for doing horrible things. Next thing you know, we'll see Sansa in Season 7 ordering the torture of people.

At this point in the books, Sansa is with LF in the Vale, she never goes to WF and LF has not yet thought of it. The Vale is a place of rest and respite for her after the horrors of KL. She is navigating a strange relationship with LF posing as his bastard daughter, but he acts as a father for the most part; she is on a redemption arc and learning to car for others conequences of actions. She is learning the fine art of flirting with boys her age. She is learning the fine art of politics and white lying, but she is not mean, malicious etc. IN many aspects she acts  the young teenage virgin girl she is. Book Sansa might become--with enough abuse--the cold, calculating, bitter Sansa of the show, which is doingits best to turn her into book Cersei. But I doubt it. D/D never had a kind bone in Sansa's body or thought in her head.

 

 

You are distorting both book and show Sansa. Book Sansa just participated in killing Lysa, framing Marilion, helping LF gain the protector ship of the vale by fraud, and is now helping poison SweetRobin. I don't say that to make her out as a monster, I don't think she is. But she's not exactly on the path to innocence you portray. 

As  for the show, you're just reacting to others' overreaction to her demonstrating some degree of cool calculation. She didn't throw Rickon under any bus. She merely recognized he couldn't be saved. And there is no evidence--zero--that she wanted Jon dead. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Forlong the Fat

[Lord Lannister]

1 hour ago, Lord Freddy Blackfyre said:

I think Sansa knew that The Vale army would attack, she was just waiting for Jon and Rickon to die. She looks disappointed when she saw Jon running after Ramsey.

And to those who are saying that Jon was stupid in falling in Ramsey's trap, well unlike Lady Bolton Jon Snow care for his family, it would have been completely out of character if Jon didn't try to save his little brother.

I think this is going a bit far, though I do feel that Sansa feels threatened by Jon. She made a point a couple of times this season to point out that Jon's not a Stark, seems critical of everything he does, and went to great lengths to conceal that she had an army just waiting for her beck and call. I doubt she wanted Jon dead but I'm not sure she's very sad that the wildlings personally loyal to him took the brunt of the fighting,

[Sir Matthis Light]

Can someone explain to me if I'm understanding Danys deal with Theon and Yara right? Yara and theon will support Danys claim to the Iron Throne and in return they want the Iron Islands for Yara to be independent? So in return for helping them kill Euron and take the Iron Islands they(Theon/Yara) are not to reave and rape the 7K(Well 6 now) anymore and help her take the Iron Throne????

So Dany going to give the Iron Islands independence?!?! Also did she tell Tyrion the other great Lords can ask for independence also?!?!?

 

I call bullsh*t.....Just why?!?!?

[Farerb]

Sansa wanting Jon dead is as true as Jaqen pretending to be Arya in 607.

[Lord Freddy Blackfyre]

6 minutes ago, Sir Matthis Light said:

Can someone explain to me if I'm understanding Danys deal with Theon and Yara right? Yara and theon will support Danys claim to the Iron Throne and in return they want the Iron Islands for Yara to be independent? So in return for helping them kill Euron and take the Iron Islands they(Theon/Yara) are not to reave and rape the 7K(Well 6 now) anymore and help her take the Iron Throne????

So Dany going to give the Iron Islands independence?!?! Also did she tell Tyrion the other great Lords can ask for independence also?!?!?

 

I call bullsh*t.....Just why?!?!?

No, the Iron Island will remain as part of Westeros and behave in the same way as the rest of the kingdom.

[Lord Freddy Blackfyre]

1 hour ago, TheGreenBell said:

She didn't look that sad when she saw Rickon's body too. hmmmm

Of course she wasn't sad at all, she just saw one less obstacle between her and the northen lordship. Bran needs to be more careful when he return as the one and only heir of Winterfell.

[Sir Matthis Light]

10 minutes ago, Lord Freddy Blackfyre said:

No, the Iron Island will remain as part of Westeros and behave in the same way as the rest of the kingdom.

Are you sure? I could have sworn she said she let them become Indy500. I really hope I'm wrong cause it makes no sense for her to give up the Iron Islands when a descendant down the line is more then likely just going to reconquer it.

[Lord Freddy Blackfyre]

Just now, Sir Matthis Light said:

Are you sure? I could have sworn she said she let them become Indy500. I really hope I'm wrong cause it makes no sense for her to give up the Iron Islands when a descendant down the line is more then likely just going to reconquer it.

Yara promised to respect the integrity of Westeros but if the Iron Island were to go independent it wouldn't be a terrible lost to Westeros anyway.

[Golden Woman]

Some predictable clunkers, but I still got goosebumps at one point. : )