Jump to content

[Poll] How would you rate episode 609?


How would you rate episode 609?  

698 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      37
    • 2
      11
    • 3
      16
    • 4
      12
    • 5
      27
    • 6
      22
    • 7
      48
    • 8
      74
    • 9
      159
    • 10
      289


Recommended Posts

I gave it an 8, the first really enjoyable episode of the season where the talent of these great actors weren't completely wasted on shit dialogue and poor storytelling (I really, REALLY, hate Bryan Cogman). I still had a couple issues, such as Sansa refusing to tell Jon about her letter to Littlefinger. Why would she hide that? It literally makes no sense especially when she was trying to get Jon to wait until they had more troops. Why would he wait for the troops he doesn't think exists? The Vale troops showing up with Littlefinger and without anyone in all the north knowing about them? Yea, ok. But somehow Sansa found him and showed up to the battle alongside him? GTFO. Have I mentioned I hate Bryan Cogman? Dany's destruction of the Masters was pretty cool, but still, the dialogue and story development is just so freaking bad. Not nearly as bad as last week's episode, but still, nothing like the last 5 seasons, or at least the first 4. Oh, and where the hell is Ghost? Why even include the direwolves in the show? It has been absolutely pointless for all the impact they've had, they might as well have been completely written out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Was trying to stay on topic, not that anyone needs my input but had unfortunate confrontation with member lol; my apologies for that but I am used to highly moderate sites and I guess got carried away with the need for well ... diverse opinions...

 

No problem. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

I;m sorry I was a bit harsh but you went away from rating epiose IMHO in your comment and okay, disclosure on my part:   I have been pampered in other sites (but never found a GOT, ASOIAF) one that was polite lol, I know you didn't meant to be disrespectful and, i  guess, I acted a little "militant" lol but trying to keep things in topic ... no harm done sir

My apologies, My Lady; sometimes for all my love of books and show I fear this forum and I like to keep it polite at least; lol sorry... not that I am Lord Ramsey but someone further on the line made me feel a bit that way lol /)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

Dragons aren't plot gifts. They're the plot.

theres no drama, no tension, if a conflict can be so easily solved by jumping into your dragon and burning a whole fleet. Everything is built up in an interesting way, but they end up getting out of the situation in the quickest, dumber way as possible. thats not good writting. Make some dragon to misfire to one of Daenerys ships, throw them some arrows, whatever. give me something.

 

The same for Jon. a great battle, mistakes being done, new strategys drown. A tight battle, with smart moves from both sides, with a narrow result , all ruined by an overwhelmingly huge army of the vale. 

 

Thats bad writting. Characters and story end up being not well developed. Things move becasue of plot "gifts", jokers, or whatever you want to call them.  I dont find it interesting. For me, insted of being Jons big moment as last season against the others, lastnight we have a stupid happy trigger moron that did eveything wrong and would end up whipped out with all his men if it was not for Gandalf and the rohirrim coming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Tastes like Frey said:

Would you indulge me and give a few examples of episodes you ranked highly in the first three seasons?

I probably could, albeit not everything great in every episode...  but I do wonder why people who hate the show sooo much plague us here... if you want books alone (prefer the books myself) go re-read them.  Hey, yes, there is room for criticim of the show but overall hatred culture...  not accusing you of it BTW,  I take the ride for what it is and I accept criticism of it.  Had only gone against one member, who conveniently failed to explain what he dislike.  This is not you, so hopefully... still forum acquaintances,,,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Fair points you make in my humble opinion lol.  At least you take the trouble to explain what you didn't like or was satisfying for you instead of, like someone I just took to task lol, who thought it was shit but didn't explain (beneath him/her no doubt...).  Yes, although I loved it, Dany won too easily... now, I don't know how much D & D know (more than me for sure lol) but I think we are now looking at end game.  Okay, with the Iron Islands, say, maybe it won't be Theon and sis in the books.  They have taken Victarion's role in the show but one thing I would bet heavily on is the outcome of the two battles that George himself said were the most important part of WOW... so Stannis, or whoever takes his role in the books, as it might happen IMHO, and Danny win and finally!!! plot back in Westeros.  Sorry to say but I hated Essos, save for Dany and her well, not so whiter than white nature but time to move on "me thinks".. and although show and books differ, the end game wont!  One thing I got from this episode also, and people are going to hate me for that, to me is foreshadowing that Sansa and the Imp will stay married and rule.  One of them will die though.  I think... but hell, what a partnership they could be???  Sorry to digress but if it happens in the books will be opening a bottle of bubbly for sure lol ;)

 

We're on the same page.

26 minutes ago, Tastes like Frey said:

Would you indulge me and give a few examples of episodes you ranked highly in the first three seasons?

I'm in the same boat...So allow me to explain why at one stage I viewed this as the greatest show on television and now I think it's more just a spectacle for the masses.

1) It really is all about the dialogue. There was an economy of motion and words so even when a character was doing almost nothing, they were saying something of value. The story was in fact told through dialogue. I challenge anyone to go back and watch the first or second season and tell me they are operating on the same level.

2) Things have become too obvious and formulaic. Something GOT could never be accused of in the beginning. The intrigue is mostly gone. There has been a clear division of fan favorites/good vs evil. Sure, there is something to be said about a good old fashioned good vs evil brawl here and there. But the in-between space, the grey areas that made this show so human and unique have become almost non existent. And hey, that's hard to write.

Oh and is there any doubt Dany is going to come swooping in at the last second to save Westeros with Dragon Fire?

3) There are so many plot holes and plot gifts. D&D have a deadline. Unlike GRRM they can't go back and change what doesn't work. So we need to cut them some slack because GRRM hasn't exactly brought it home recently. So the general storyline hasn't been well crafted.

6 minutes ago, John Courage said:

I gave it an 8, the first really enjoyable episode of the season where the talent of these great actors weren't completely wasted on shit dialogue and poor storytelling (I really, REALLY, hate Bryan Cogman). I still had a couple issues, such as Sansa refusing to tell Jon about her letter to Littlefinger. Why would she hide that? It literally makes no sense especially when she was trying to get Jon to wait until they had more troops. Why would he wait for the troops he doesn't think exists? The Vale troops showing up with Littlefinger and without anyone in all the north knowing about them? Yea, ok. But somehow Sansa found him and showed up to the battle alongside him? GTFO. Have I mentioned I hate Bryan Cogman? Dany's destruction of the Masters was pretty cool, but still, the dialogue and story development is just so freaking bad. Not nearly as bad as last week's episode, but still, nothing like the last 5 seasons, or at least the first 4. Oh, and where the hell is Ghost? Why even include the direwolves in the show? It has been absolutely pointless for all the impact they've had, they might as well have been completely written out.

 

Why the hate for Cogman? I think he's does the most with the least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Gannicus said:

We're on the same page.

I'm in the same boat...So allow me to explain why at one stage I viewed this as the greatest show on television and now I think it's more just a spectacle for the masses.

1) It really is all about the dialogue. There was an economy of motion and words so even when a character was doing almost nothing, they were saying something of value. The story was in fact told through dialogue. I challenge anyone to go back and watch the first or second season and tell me they are operating on the same level.

2) Things have become too obvious and formulaic. Something GOT could never be accused of in the beginning. The intrigue is mostly gone. There has been a clear division of fan favorites/good vs evil. Sure, there is something to be said about a good old fashioned good vs evil brawl here and there. But the in-between space, the grey areas that made this show so human and unique have become almost non existent. And hey, that's hard to write.

Oh and is there any doubt Dany is going to come swooping in at the last second to save Westeros with Dragon Fire?

3) There are so many plot holes and plot gifts. D&D have a deadline. Unlike GRRM they can't go back and change what doesn't work. So we need to cut them some slack because GRRM hasn't exactly brought it home recently. So the general storyline hasn't been well crafted.

 

Why the hate for Cogman? I think he's does the most with the least.

It is definitely difficult to argue with the dialogue's decrease in quality since season 4. However, as this season is almost entirely off-book, and season 5 had to be a much less direct adaptation of aFfC/aDwD, I don't think it's entirely fair to judge D&D on the merits of GRRM's writing, as one of George's greatest strengths as a writer is his brilliantly woven dialogue. A drop in quality for dialogue comes with the territory of surpassing the books, and really was unavoidable. 

 

I do however disagree with the show being more predictable now than it was before. There were things this season both predictable and unpredictable, just as there were serveral seasons ago. Yes, very few us here were surprised by the arrival of the Knighs of the Vale, but you would be hard-pressed to find anyone not very surprised at the reveal of the origins of Hodor's name. In the same way that Ned's death came a shock to a lot of people, but I would be extremely surprised if someone watched the show and did not foresee the hatching of the dragon eggs. 

 

I also think it's worth mentioning that George's books are not without plot holes or "plot gifts" (truly deteste that term - along with "plot armour").

 

Apologies for the rant. I find myself oddly protective of the show, never could understand why others weren't able to separate the show and the books and enjoy the show for what it is - aSoIaFLite, I just find a watered down version of aSoIaF to be a lot better than many shows on Tv nowadays.

 

/rant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Tastes like Frey said:

It is definitely difficult to argue with the dialogue's decrease in quality since season 4. However, as this season is almost entirely off-book, and season 5 had to be a much less direct adaptation of aFfC/aDwD, I don't think it's entirely fair to judge D&D on the merits of GRRM's writing, as one of George's greatest strengths as a writer is his brilliantly woven dialogue. A drop in quality for dialogue comes with the territory of surpassing the books, and really was unavoidable. 

 

I do however disagree with the show being more predictable now than it was before. There were things this season both predictable and unpredictable, just as there were serveral seasons ago. Yes, very few us here were surprised by the arrival of the Knighs of the Vale, but you would be hard-pressed to find anyone not very surprised at the reveal of the origins of Hodor's name. In the same way that Ned's death came a shock to a lot of people, but I would be extremely surprised if someone watched the show and did not foresee the hatching of the dragon eggs. 

 

I also think it's worth mentioning that George's books are not without plot holes or "plot gifts" (truly deteste that term - along with "plot armour").

 

Apologies for the rant. I find myself oddly protective of the show, never could understand why others weren't able to separate the show and the books and enjoy the show for what it is - aSoIaFLite, I just find a watered down version of aSoIaF to be a lot better than many shows on Tv nowadays.

 

/rant

Hey, this is better!!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Tastes like Frey said:

It is definitely difficult to argue with the dialogue's decrease in quality since season 4. However, as this season is almost entirely off-book, and season 5 had to be a much less direct adaptation of aFfC/aDwD, I don't think it's entirely fair to judge D&D on the merits of GRRM's writing, as one of George's greatest strengths as a writer is his brilliantly woven dialogue. A drop in quality for dialogue comes with the territory of surpassing the books, and really was unavoidable. 

 

I do however disagree with the show being more predictable now than it was before. There were things this season both predictable and unpredictable, just as there were serveral seasons ago. Yes, very few us here were surprised by the arrival of the Knighs of the Vale, but you would be hard-pressed to find anyone not very surprised at the reveal of the origins of Hodor's name. In the same way that Ned's death came a shock to a lot of people, but I would be extremely surprised if someone watched the show and did not foresee the hatching of the dragon eggs. 

 

I also think it's worth mentioning that George's books are not without plot holes or "plot gifts" (truly deteste that term - along with "plot armour").

 

Apologies for the rant. I find myself oddly protective of the show, never could understand why others weren't able to separate the show and the books and enjoy the show for what it is - aSoIaFLite, I just find a watered down version of aSoIaF to be a lot better than many shows on Tv nowadays.

 

/rant

I think that's all fair. 

D&D adjustments were mostly fantastic in the first couple seasons too. They now have a tougher job and unfortunately they've missed the mark a bit in the last two seasons. It feels like they are trying to appease the masses and have struggled to recreate the magic for some of the more seasoned watchers/readers.

And hey, at least they're meeting their deadlines. 600 hours of TV isn't easy to create.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Tastes like Frey said:

It is definitely difficult to argue with the dialogue's decrease in quality since season 4. However, as this season is almost entirely off-book, and season 5 had to be a much less direct adaptation of aFfC/aDwD, I don't think it's entirely fair to judge D&D on the merits of GRRM's writing, as one of George's greatest strengths as a writer is his brilliantly woven dialogue. A drop in quality for dialogue comes with the territory of surpassing the books, and really was unavoidable. 

I do however disagree with the show being more predictable now than it was before. There were things this season both predictable and unpredictable, just as there were serveral seasons ago. Yes, very few us here were surprised by the arrival of the Knighs of the Vale, but you would be hard-pressed to find anyone not very surprised at the reveal of the origins of Hodor's name. In the same way that Ned's death came a shock to a lot of people, but I would be extremely surprised if someone watched the show and did not foresee the hatching of the dragon eggs. 

I also think it's worth mentioning that George's books are not without plot holes or "plot gifts" (truly deteste that term - along with "plot armour").

Apologies for the rant. I find myself oddly protective of the show, never could understand why others weren't able to separate the show and the books and enjoy the show for what it is - aSoIaFLite, I just find a watered down version of aSoIaF to be a lot better than many shows on TV nowadays.

Reasonable.

Here's how I see it:

For sure there’s some who frequent here that simply hate the show. I think it’s a mistake to confuse those few with those that have legitimate criticisms though, and I also think it’s unwise to label the latter as solely book-purists as well.

I love the books [excepting Feast and Dance, tepid there] and one only needs to read some of Tyrion’s bitter chapters from Dance to see where half of the dick jokes that many of the critics of the how revile actually originated. Myself, yes of course there are liberties taken in the adaption. Needs must, all that, and while some make sense many do not. Even so, a choice was made. Time to commit, do the work. Make it work.

The show has its moments but in the main, I don’t think it does. Work. Not anymore. So to go from generally loving the first 3 or 4 seasons and witness what it’s devolved to, it’s hard for some, I’d imagine, if only because I know it's hard for me.

Do I hate it? Sometimes. I’m not going to bother, excepting this mention, stating the points of how much I detest what the showrunners have done with Sansa’s arc over the last two seasons, but if they were going to do anything to make the show easier [as everyone pretty much acknowledges they have to, medium to medium] why’d they choose to get bunged up over the same fucking Meereenese Knot that Martin did? Dany’s arc over two seasons spinning its wheels, why, because maybe Martin would meet a deadline and they’d have more original material to draw from or whatever else it might have been? Pfft.

This will sound dismissive, hell, maybe it is, but telling me that if I turn my mind off and just excuse all the inconsistencies in characterization, plot, theme etc will allow me to overlook the serious flaws of the same and give it top grades… that just doesn’t work for me. And in my opinion, it shouldn’t work for you [general you] 

Look, if not in word then at least the first four seasons more or less put paid to the spirit of the books. Ned’s tragic nobility, Cat’s fierce devotion to her children and the general pathos of the Starks’ plight, Tyrion, a man could go on, yet wonders, where did all that go? Thing is, I used to love the show. And that’s why I keep watching. Hoping for some return on that promise.

And maybe why I’ve become more vocal about its flaws. Because they’re not lessening.

They’re getting worse.

 

Edited by JEORDHl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...