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[Poll] How would you rate episode 609?


How would you rate episode 609?  

698 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      37
    • 2
      11
    • 3
      16
    • 4
      12
    • 5
      27
    • 6
      22
    • 7
      48
    • 8
      74
    • 9
      159
    • 10
      289


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8 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Last night I went to a concert and on the drive the one thing that perked up people the most was when we talked about the show.

That's one of the reasons why the show is still popular, despite it's decline in quality. People like to watch what their friends are watching, so they have something to talk about. 

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2 minutes ago, Eddy1 said:

That's one of the reasons why the show is still popular, despite it's decline in quality. People like to watch what their friends are watching, so they have something to talk about. 

But, when people are just band wagon jumping, they are not passionate. This is passion for something. I was at a bon fire last Saturday with another group of people and as soon as someone brought it up their eyes lit up and they got into the conversation. There is a big difference in liking something and being passionate about it.

And BTW, coming to something late and joining in doesn't just mean watching because others are. I came to Breaking Bad just before the final season, and I was hooked.

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13 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Article out today or yesterday about Game of Thrones. HBO has stated this is it's only series ever that has gone this long and increased in ratings every year. There is something to be said about that. How can you have such prolonged success, getting more and more popular every season if you suck? Your writing sucks, your every decision sucks.

Despite what some people think, people are still tuning in, enjoying, and recommending this show to others, who in turn do the same. Last night I went to a concert and on the drive the one thing that perked up people the most was when we talked about the show. And these friends haven't read the books. I still maintain that the majority of people on here who complain about the show wouldn't be doing so if they hadn't read the books over the course of 20 years and have this built up expectations and such that the show, no matter who was doing it couldn't meet. Especially since the show has passed the books.

Everyone has an opinion and can use any logic they choose to justify their opinion, as I did just now regarding the ratings.

I wonder if that article is just HBO hyperbole - I'd need to see the statistics to back that up considering all the really popular shows over the years, not to mention that some older shows (like Cheers & M*A*S*H) pulled in far greater viewing figures than GoT has done.

There is no doubt that GoT is popular - no-one is disputing that - but popularity does not necessarily equate with quality.  It is the decline in quality for the sake of spectacle and cock jokes that so many of us find objectionable.

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9.5.

Almost perfect, but it lost tenths of a point b/c of (a) Sansa's withholding of

critical information, (b) Jon's plot armor (and I'm convinced that's all it

was, I don't believe he has some special fighting powers now, the show runner

said after the episode it was luck), and (c) lack of realism in Rickon's final scene.

(Nevertheless, these things only add up to half a point in my mind, overall it was a "top three all time episode")

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5 hours ago, Barristan Whitebeard said:

Yeah, and that's the reason because the ratings have been so low this season! Oh, wait...

Let's be honest most people are rather simple minded when it comes to high ratings: they want ice zombies, dragons, giants and some badass action scenes and D&D serves them well. This episode is the prime example: many people vote 10 because of the "badass" fights and action scenes and dragons, etc. If heaven forbid someone dares to criticise the writing they come back with the excuse that "OMG a show with ice zombies, dragons, giants and swordfight you worry about X or Y!!! OMG!" So this tells more about the taste of the average viewer and the fact that D&D knows how to cater to this need, rather about the "quality" of the show. 

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44 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

I wonder if that article is just HBO hyperbole - I'd need to see the statistics to back that up considering all the really popular shows over the years, not to mention that some older shows (like Cheers & M*A*S*H) pulled in far greater viewing figures than GoT has done.

There is no doubt that GoT is popular - no-one is disputing that - but popularity does not necessarily equate with quality.  It is the decline in quality for the sake of spectacle and cock jokes that so many of us find objectionable.

You can't compare any show that was on that long ago to any current show. Back when MASH was on you had like 3 channels to choose from, that's it. Current shows should only be compared to other shows in the last decade or so, no other comparison ratings wise is remotely fair.

And again, something that continually gets more popular must mean something. And lets be honest, the books had just as much sex and violence, no one can contest that.

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23 minutes ago, watcher of the night said:

Let's be honest most people are rather simple minded when it comes to high ratings: they want ice zombies, dragons, giants and some badass action scenes and D&D serves them well. This episode is the prime example: many people vote 10 because of the "badass" fights and action scenes and dragons, etc. If heaven forbid someone dares to criticise the writing they come back with the excuse that "OMG a show with ice zombies, dragons, giants and swordfight you worry about X or Y!!! OMG!" So this tells more about the taste of the average viewer and the fact that D&D knows how to cater to this need, rather about the "quality" of the show. 

And again here goes the easy argument, people are dumb who flock to this show, slow witted, simple minded. I mean, if they don't agree with me they must be dumb....  great argument.

The last two books dragged ass and quite frankly. Dance was a little better but over all they were jumbled up and had tons of filler chapters. But since GRRM wrote it, and people read it versus seeing it on t.v. that makes it better.

The show can never and should never go into the great details that the books did, it would be boring as piss if they did.

BTW, same statement can be said of the books, OMG a book about dragons, dead walking things and Direwolves oh my!..Doesn't mean the quality of the books haven't dropped off since book 3.

Edited by dbunting
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What do the books have to do with the show's invented plots being nonsensical?  This is a strawman argument.

Me saying that the plot in the North is nonsense in the show and that no characters actions are logical within what has been presented by the show is totally separate from the books, whether they were good or bad or mediocre.  Just like the criticisms of Arya's ninja adventures had nothing to do with the books, it was show only criticism.

Has society really come to a place where 'happy shitting' 'fuck the tits off her' and 'let's go murder them' is penultimate TV writing?  I guess so.

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1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Article out today or yesterday about Game of Thrones. HBO has stated this is it's only series ever that has gone this long and increased in ratings every year. There is something to be said about that. How can you have such prolonged success, getting more and more popular every season if you suck? Your writing sucks, your every decision sucks.

I don't know, why is it that a cat can spend day after day and countless hours batting around a piece of tinfoil crunched up into a ball? I suspect the two reasons are similar. "Oh look, shiny! "

Quote

Despite what some people think, people are still tuning in, enjoying, and recommending this show to others, who in turn do the same. Last night I went to a concert and on the drive the one thing that perked up people the most was when we talked about the show. And these friends haven't read the books.

 I haven't seen anyone claim this, what point are you trying  to make that counters any argument being made. 

Quote

I still maintain that the majority of people on here who complain about the show wouldn't be doing so if they hadn't read the books over the course of 20 years and have this built up expectations and such that the show, no matter who was doing it couldn't meet. Especially since the show has passed the.

That's true, because if this show wasn't based on the books, and d&d had taken the same approach in season one that they have since taken, I wouldn't have continued to watch, as I'm sure a majority of book readers who tuned in for the same reason wouldn't have, and it would have never been renewed for a second season. Most people I know had not even heard of the show at the end of season one, and would never have started watching if I didn't encouraged them to. Something that has since become a great source of shame for me. 

And before anyone starts in with the tired old argument that I still have the option to stop watching, please don't bother, there are several reasons that contribute to why I now continue to watch Got, which would not have been applicable had d&d botched the first season as they have to a greater extent each subsequent season. 

Quote


Everyone has an opinion and can use any logic they choose to justify their opinion, as I did just now regarding the ratings

 I wonder if d&d use the same line of nonsense to justify the decisions that they make? Actually, several of their quotes would suggest that indeed, they do. 

Edited by Darkstream
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32 minutes ago, dbunting said:

You can't compare any show that was on that long ago to any current show. Back when MASH was on you had like 3 channels to choose from, that's it. Current shows should only be compared to other shows in the last decade or so, no other comparison ratings wise is remotely fair.

 

I can and have.  But, okay, if you want a more modern show, here in the UK, the Great British Bake Off has millions more viewers than GoT and its figures have risen steadily year on year.  It a competitive baking programme! :lol:  Come to think of it, Sherlock's ratings have risen every year.  I just don't think your point has any real substantive merit.

Quote

And again, something that continually gets more popular must mean something. And lets be honest, the books had just as much sex and violence, no one can contest that.

It means it's getting more popular?  As for the bolded, I didn't say anything about sex and violence. 

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9 hours ago, Darkstream said:

At least you have the honesty to admit what you love about Got. I can respect that, and is why I would consider your rating to be fair and valid. Unlike many who have rated this episode a ten (or eleven in your case) you are not claiming it to be some flawlessly written masterpiece.

What I do take issue with is your statement that "If you're looking for something else out of GOT, you're in the wrong place". Although now true, that is the problem with this show. Got used to be, and is supposed to be an adaption of ASOIAF, which is any thing but "one flashy light after another". Don't get me wrong, the books have their share of flashy lights, it's just that those lights shine because of the meticulous and intricate circuitry laid out by GRRM to power them. This is sorely missing in the show of late. The reason I loved Got in the early seasons is because back then, this show wasn't the "wrong place if you're looking for something else." d$d have lost the desire to adapt this amazing story, or to even tell a coherent and meaningful story at all anymore. It's all flashy lights with no means to make them shine. Once the surge of energy created by the buzz and shock factor that Got currently benefits from, these flashy lights will fade into a cold and silent dark.

Exactly.

Look at Arya cuting her ties with the faceless men/ sycilian mafia and then happily walking in Braavos/Palermo waiting for someone to staab her guts.

Our inteligence as viewers is being insulted every week!

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Having zombies, dragons and swordfights doesnt mean we cant have decent writting.

 

In some years when this cgi will look shitier nowbody  is going to come back because theres nothing more. It might be a commercial succes now, but as art it will just fade away in a blink.

 

Today star wars 4, 5, 6 look terrible. Yet millions watch them, and they are cult films. Ep 1 - 2 - 3 had spacehips, lightsaber duels and all that crap, millons watched them and yet amost nobody says those are good movies, and few go back to them. See the difference?

Edited by Señor de la Tormenta
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I am sure you all would do much better at writing a show and developing it. I mean, this show is doing so poorly that anyone could do better, I can't believe it's still on. 

Despite what some highly educated high brow great literary forum posters want to keep stating, the show has a passionate group of fans and that base is growing for a reason.

 

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

What do the books have to do with the show's invented plots being nonsensical?  This is a strawman argument.

Me saying that the plot in the North is nonsense in the show and that no characters actions are logical within what has been presented by the show is totally separate from the books, whether they were good or bad or mediocre.  Just like the criticisms of Arya's ninja adventures had nothing to do with the books, it was show only criticism.

Has society really come to a place where 'happy shitting' 'fuck the tits off her' and 'let's go murder them' is penultimate TV writing?  I guess so.

I couldn't agree more, it's the same old tired and irrelivant defence that is used over and over again. 

I would be ecstatic if d$d had presented us with a story that completely diverged from the books if it was intelligent and well written.  what could be better than having two stories to enjoy, and not being spoiled by a, dumbed down, pathetic version of the original. This argument was irrelivant when it first started being used several seasons ago and is increasingly becoming more and more pathetic as the show continues to faulter exponentially in of itself with every passing episode. 

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27 minutes ago, Señor de la Tormenta said:

Having zombies, dragons and swordfights doesnt mean we cant have decent writting.

 

In some years when this cgi will look shitier nowbody  is going to come back because theres nothing more. It might be a commercial succes now, but as art it will just fade away in a blink.

 

Today star wars 4, 5, 6 look terrible. Yet millions watch them, and they are cult films. Ep 1 - 2 - 3 had spacehips, lightsaber duels and all that crap, millons watched them and yet amost nobody says those are good movies, and few go back to them. See the difference?

And yet most watchers of the show go back and rewatch every episode, some even multiple times, so I guess that makes GOT like the original 3 movies? I agree!!!!

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1 hour ago, Darkstream said:

I don't know, why is it that a cat can spend day after day and countless hours batting around a piece of tinfoil crunched up into a ball? I suspect the two reasons are similar. "Oh look, shiny! "

 

Love this comparison, I mean again, anyone who doesn't agree with you that the writing sucks must be simple minded.

Been fun, got to go and get some tinfoil!!!!   Enjoy the last episode, I hope it goes out with a bang and hopefully we can meet back on here and have some more fun and all in good jest conversations!

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14 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Love this comparison, I mean again, anyone who doesn't agree with you that the writing sucks must be simple minded.

Been fun, got to go and get some tinfoil!!!!   Enjoy the last episode, I hope it goes out with a bang and hopefully we can meet back on here and have some more fun and all in good jest conversations!

I never stated anything of the such. In fact I had quoted a poster up thread and said that I respected his opinion and a rating of an eleven out of ten because he at least had the mind to actually admit what the show really is, and that was why he loved it. 

It is not an opinion that the show is poorly written, it is a fact. And I wouldn't say that people are simple minded because they enjoy the show, only that they don't care about these undeniable flaws with it. If what you watch the show for are the shiny lights and enjoy it because of this, then that's great, and I can understand that, so all the power to you, but don't sit here and tell me that it is a well written story. That does make you come off as simple minded

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1 minute ago, Darkstream said:

I never stated anything of the such. In fact I had quoted a poster up thread and said that I respected his opinion and a rating of an eleven out of ten because he at least had the mind to actually admit what the show really is, and that was why he loved it. 

It is not an opinion that the show is poorly written, it is a fact. And I wouldn't say that people are simple minded because they enjoy the show, only that they don't care about these undeniable flaws with it. If what you watch the show for are the shiny lights and enjoy it because of this, then that's great, and I can understand that, so all the power to you, but don't sit here and tell me that it is a well written story. That does make you come off as simple minded

A fact is something that is indisputable, you are stating an opinion, as I am about to do.

In all reality there is nothing ever published or created, or painted that isn't poorly done in some amount. If the Mona Lisa is examined there will be flaws found, an amazing song will have a note or two off, a sculpture will not be perfectly balanced...much like my points, nothing is perfect.

Millions of people the world over love the Mona Lisa, to me it's a good painting but it doesn't invoke passion or any real response, does that mean it wasn't done well, no, it just means my opinion is different.

I like the show, I like the actors, the story lines,( I hate Dorne ) the jokes, the battles, the character interaction. You don't; so be it, but it doesn't make me simple minded or a tin foil chaser as you stated so nicely.

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7 hours ago, dbunting said:

So, let me see if I get this right. The episodes that have no tits or gore and focus on people are lambasted for poor writing and being slow. The episodes with tits and dicks and dick jokes are bitched about being exploitive and low brow. The episodes with action and gore and criticized for being violent and OMG the hero didn't die in the battle and not focused on people or politics.

So basically, the show should just consist of the opening credits and then pages from the books shown on screen?

To be fair, every episode is called poor writing, lazy writing, not true to the books, cheap, no budget, no wolves, no dragons, oh wait dragons but I wanted wolves this time, flashy lights, people who like it have no taste, just watch for the tits and dragons, wouldn't understand good writing if they saw it...

 

It is strawman argument so you can stop it right there.

42 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I am sure you all would do much better at writing a show and developing it. I mean, this show is doing so poorly that anyone could do better, I can't believe it's still on. 

Despite what some highly educated high brow great literary forum posters want to keep stating, the show has a passionate group of fans and that base is growing for a reason.

 

This is an other strawman argument, no one argued that we can do better. Also no one claimed that the show does not have a "passionate group of fans", you are a prime example. The fan base is most likely growing because ice zombies, dragons, tits and fighting. None of these points is a proof that the quality of story telling or writing in the show is high.

2 hours ago, dbunting said:

And again here goes the easy argument, people are dumb who flock to this show, slow witted, simple minded. I mean, if they don't agree with me they must be dumb....  great argument.

The last two books dragged ass and quite frankly. Dance was a little better but over all they were jumbled up and had tons of filler chapters. But since GRRM wrote it, and people read it versus seeing it on t.v. that makes it better.

The show can never and should never go into the great details that the books did, it would be boring as piss if they did.

BTW, same statement can be said of the books, OMG a book about dragons, dead walking things and Direwolves oh my!..Doesn't mean the quality of the books haven't dropped off since book 3.

Reread it. A bit of a reading comprehesion goes a long way. I never called people dumb, I just said that their mind works in a simple way when it comes to rating. It is a fact that episodes with lot of battle/action got the highest rating (ToJ, the door, Bastardbowl, last season Hardhome). This is just that simple. D&D know it and they play up this part.

5 minutes ago, dbunting said:

A fact is something that is indisputable, you are stating an opinion, as I am about to do.

In all reality there is nothing ever published or created, or painted that isn't poorly done in some amount. If the Mona Lisa is examined there will be flaws found, an amazing song will have a note or two off, a sculpture will not be perfectly balanced...much like my points, nothing is perfect.

Millions of people the world over love the Mona Lisa, to me it's a good painting but it doesn't invoke passion or any real response, does that mean it wasn't done well, no, it just means my opinion is different.

I like the show, I like the actors, the story lines,( I hate Dorne ) the jokes, the battles, the character interaction. You don't; so be it, but it doesn't make me simple minded or a tin foil chaser as you stated so nicely.

I like the show in general too, the actors as well but the storylines deteriorated or disintegrated in the last season. Even the die-hard fans of the show don't deny a decline in quality of story writing they just brush it aside in favour of dragons, ice zombies giants and swordfights.

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12 minutes ago, dbunting said:

A fact is something that is indisputable, you are stating an opinion, as I am about to do.

In all reality there is nothing ever published or created, or painted that isn't poorly done in some amount. If the Mona Lisa is examined there will be flaws found, an amazing song will have a note or two off, a sculpture will not be perfectly balanced...much like my points, nothing is perfect.

Millions of people the world over love the Mona Lisa, to me it's a good painting but it doesn't invoke passion or any real response, does that mean it wasn't done well, no, it just means my opinion is different.

I like the show, I like the actors, the story lines,( I hate Dorne ) the jokes, the battles, the character interaction. You don't; so be it, but it doesn't make me simple minded or a tin foil chaser as you stated so nicely.

No, it is a fact, as I've already stated in this very thread: 

Quote

 

You do know that there are objective means in which a work of literature can be judged. There are established academic standards that use criteria such as plot, consistency, characterization etc. to determine whether a work of literature is good or not. When judged by these standards, Got fails miserably. 

I mean, have you never taken an English class when you were in school? Did you not learn about these things? I wish my English teacher used your method of grading my projects, I could have aced my classes, stating that my work was perfect and deserved an A+  just because I personally liked it.

 

 

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