[Poll] How would you rate episode 609?

[Señor de la Tormenta]

I seroiously cant believe someone defends the writting.

 

[Darkstream]

52 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I like the show, I like the actors, the story lines,( I hate Dorne ) the jokes, the battles, the character interaction. You don't; so be it, but it doesn't make me simple minded or a tin foil chaser as you stated so nicely.

Well, to be blunt, if you like Got you are a tinfoil chaser. I'm not saying this makes you simple minded or that there is anything wrong with it. I myself have my own guilty pleasures that I would consider to be tinfoil chasing. I just don't go around pretending that I like those things for something that they obviously are not. 

Edited June 23, 2016 by Darkstream

[Daske]

17 minutes ago, Señor de la Tormenta said:

I seroiously cant believe someone defends the writting.

 

Yes, all this bad writing is terrible indeed! Terrible I say! We should all be on our guard!

 

[xjlxking]

12 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Well, to be blunt, if you like Got you are a tinfoil chaser. I'm not saying this makes you simple minded or that there is anything wrong with it. I myself have my own guilty pleasures that I would consider to be tinfoil chasing. I just don't go around pretending that I like those things for something that it obviously is not. 

Right, I also assume you believe the majority are stupid? Or at the very least have no taste? 

[Darkstream]

11 hours ago, xjlxking said:

Right, I also assume you believe the majority are stupid? Or at the very least have no taste? 

Why are you trying to put words in my mouth? I have numerous times, specifically stated the opposite of what you are accusing me of. Maybe you should try reading what I actually say before responding. 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Darkstream

[Nymeria's pack]

Gave it a 9.

-1 for no Ghost again. 

 I was so scared going into that battle - I thought they did the pre-battle scenes really well.  The fear was palpable.  Sophie was amazing. Rickon, what can I say? How much do I hate Smalljon Umber... Very disappointed that his not swearing an oath to Ramsay meant precisely nothing in the end. 

Jon being stupid and emotional, I'm not surprised, I don't think it was out of character, and he'll have learned from this. This was his true re-birth I think - when he fought his way up and decided to live and fight. 

A terrific battle, really loved it.

Dany, dragons, Meereen was so much fun for a change. 

That's just how I wanted Ramsay to go.  Well, I kind of wanted the dogs to be warged or something (like Weese's dog in the books) but it was close.  And a sound lesson to those who don't feed their animals properly.

 

 

 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

So I've been reading the thread trying to figure out how one person (or group of people) could rate this episode a 10 while another can rate it a 1. More than just different strokes for different folks. Here's what I have came up with:

For one thing fans of aSoIaF find different parts of the story as the most intriguing part. For instance I had to literally force & drag my self through every Bran chapter. I cringed when I saw Bran as the next chapter. I have not liked one scene with Bran since the man tried to kill him at WF until this season. I found some more tolerable than others but was truly uninterested in his story line. Although I enjoyed some Bran scenes this season, excluding Hold the Door, I enjoyed them because they were flash backs not because of Bran. Hold the Door was the very first of Bran's story line that I absolutely enjoyed. There are people who absolutely love Bran's storyline though. I would suspect some of them are the ones that did not enjoy this episode. 

 

Here's the other thing I figured out:

I let D&D off the hook long ago. I realized they will never make things the way I want them & will probably always have storylines that make absolutely no sense. It used to infuriate me. So if I give an episode a high rating it's like 'This was a good episode for D&D' kinda like 'She's tough for a girl' I have lowered my expectations of the show. Before you judge me too harshly; this is what has allowed me to enjoy the show. 

It is absolutely no where near aSoIaF. It won't ever be. For one thing it's an adaptation as we all know but also it isn't a particularly good adaptation. I think it could have been done so much better. 

There are tons of things I could pick apart about this episode but anymore my ratings are based on how much I enjoyed the episode, how entertaining it was. This episode was visually pleasing & entertaining to me thus it got a high rating. 

[Barristan Whitebeard]

Most TV watchers love the show, they must be wrong.

Most TV critics love the show, but hey, they must be wrong.

Most people in this very site like the show at least (75% voted this episode 8 or above).

I guess that the only people then who are right in the whole world are the 40-50 guys who bash the show every week in the RnR threads. Shame on us, the unwashed masses who dare to be entertained by a TV show!

[HellasLEAF]

There are more 1 votes than 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 for this episode.  

 

 

[JonSnow4President]

6 hours ago, xjlxking said:

Right, I also assume you believe the majority are stupid? Or at the very least have no taste? 

One of my guilty pleasure shows is Moonshiners.  And the West Texas Investors club.  I love the Transformers movies, Talladega Nights, and other patently ridiculous movies with plot holes and contrivances.  Hell, the movie I've enjoyed the most in the past year was Kingsman because it was so unexpectedly good.  I judge things within the frame I expect of them.  So for Moonshiners, I'm expecting an obviously fake "reality" show.  For Transformers, I'm expecting Optimus Prime riding a fire-breathing-T-rex-transformer level of action.  

I fell in love with Game of Thrones (I came to the show before the books) because of the character interactions way back in Season 1, and how those were the driving elements of  the politics, the characters' actions, and ultimately the events of the story.  I began to expect "high brow" character based drama, with the occasional action sequence as a sweetener, which seemed to flow naturally from the characters and events.  I can go back, and while I become more annoyed with certain things that I think are indicative of future fubars, they are relatively minor at that point in time, and I still enjoy the early seasons of the show.  

But somewhere along the line (I think directly proportional to the amount of time that has passed from the Red Wedding), D&D have made the shift from that to the spectacle, stabby stab and Big Battle Episode being the main attractions.  And there's nothing wrong with liking that.  On that level, I think Game of Thrones would still be an enjoyable show, which is generally a technical marvel, despite some bad scenes (Dany's magic flamethrowers in the Temple of the Dhos Khaleen for example). But for those of us craving for the high-brow drama that the show started as, the show falls hilariously flat.  

As far as how that relates to ratings, everyone has different scales.  I've seen people who do nothing but trash the episode in their post, but they give it a 7 as if that was a bad grade.  Other people (me included) leave 5/6 as average, and thus in a season that has been particularly poor (particularly for those still craving that high-brow drama), have never given anything higher than a 4.  An 8 is great, a 9 is holy shit, and a 10 is the pinnacle of what I expect (off the top of my head, I can only name 2 episodes I would give a 10 in Baelor and Blackwater). That doesn't mean they're without flaws (nothing ever is), but that it succeeds at that level despite its flaws in my mind.  

[El Guapo]

So HBO released the ratings numbers for this season and the show is averaging 23 million viewers  a week across all platforms beating last year's record of 20 million viewers a week.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/06/donald_trump_takes_the_psychosis_of_the_gop_base_and_amplifies_it.html

[Boarsbane]

1 hour ago, HellasLEAF said:

There are more 1 votes than 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 for this episode.  

 

 

It's the same people voting 1 for every episode, they can't be taken seriously anymore than anyone who votes a 10. I'm no fan of D&D's writing but even ignoring that there are other factors that make it better than a 1.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

23 hours ago, Talking Hodor said:

Fuck yeah!  I give this episode an 11 out of 10.  They kicked it up a notch Spinal Tap-style. This was by far the most metal episode in the entire series...

  This guy, he gets it. 

On 6/22/2016 at 8:10 AM, Dolorous Gabe said:

I'll help you out if you can't be bothered to check the conversation between SdlT and PP (but hey, it's easier to create straw men to attack I guess!).

SdlT is suggesting that people are falling for the misdirection of analogical shiny objects (as in "oooh, look at the shiny things. How awesome!") in judging this episode.

PP replied with a collection of "badass" elements as being the reason the episode was so good.

SdlT then pointed out that such analyses very much supports his point.

Pretty good summation there; although, I will correct you on that last line. SdiR replied in a very condescending manner that such analyses... 

On 6/22/2016 at 6:06 AM, Señor de la Tormenta said:

Yep. Thats kind of my point. Look at all the times you wrote "badass".

,,, Also, someone who pays atention to the """story"""" wont see Sansa as a badass. Insted, as the """plot'''" was set, she got almost all his brothers army killed because of keeping information for herself. Wait for more troops! Which troops? Mmmm lol. 

The same goes for Mereen. Tyron had no plan. The cities defences didnt work. No men, no nothing. So they pulled it out with Daenerys burning it all. We dont even see a threat to dragons like spears, arrows, no thrill, just boreing "badassery".

 . . .I want characters who win and lose, enjoy and suffer because what they chose to do, how they overcame and react to shit.  sometimes at least. Not the freacking plot FF they always give us with a plot wild card.

Pd: RIP Ramsey Bolton. The best field commander in GOT. All his planning was brilliant. In line with his feat dispaching Stannis army with 20 good men.

Well, if you're equating my (over)use of the word badass as me simply liking "flashy" things or this episode simply relying on "all flash no substance" then I must respectfully disagree, sirrah. I was simply trying to succinctly write down all the amazing story points while conveying my excitement for said story points. I don't think enjoying a character who has been hailed as "Mother of Dragons" for five seasons actually climbing on a dragon and using it to decimate an enemy as a negative. It's the fulfillment of a promise to viewers since Daeny walked outta Drogo's pyre back in season one. What's more, it's significant to the world of GoT in itself as it's the first time in centuries (I think that's right.) a Targaryen has used a dragon to win a battle.  Likewise, the Battle of Winterfell was equally engaging if not much more emotionally draining. Jon and Sansa, both Stark if not by name then by upbringing, fight this battle in very different ways. Jon, noble and headstrong, much like Ned, makes a critical error in the battle, which Sansa really did wrn him about the night before the battle. Then the cavalry literally rides in at (what we can only assume at this point) is due to an arrangement Sansa made with Baelish. I think this sets up some good drama to come for the fate of the North and raises as many questions as it answers. It's all very relevant and significant """"plot""" points that were previously set up coming to fruition in a way that's true to the characters and the setting/world of GoT.

And technically I never referred to Sansa as badass. I called her "gangsta," as in ruthless, which obviously. 

And if you didn't think the battle of Meereen had no thrills and that badassery is boring then I am sad for you because your world seems bereft of joy. If you can't enjoy an episode of show that's about a mythical land where dragons once conquered kingdoms actually using dragons to win a battle then I can't do nothin' for ya man. So that battle wouldn't have been just "ooh flashy things" to you if the show would have had shots focused more on retaliation by the masters' fleet against the dragons? I really think the lack of showing any retaliation can be explained by the fact it is plausible there would be no retaliation. These soldiers on the ships are most likely slaves or sellswords, no? I'm not sure about you, but I can totally understand the sight of three giant dragons burning a ship in seconds causing unconditional surrender. Sure, maybe you've got a few guys like Bob from purchasing who'd think himself all tough and shoot an arrow or two at the giant firebreathing dragons. But guys like Frank are assholes, and they would get tossed overboard quickly by their much more intelligent and survival savvy shipmates who don't want to burn to death.

And I think GoT is great in giving us consequences for actions and mistakes by characters. Characters we like suffer and lose a lot in this show. A character like Jon doing something dumb and not dying for once is indeed cause for celebration. A good guy got lucky this time instead of an asshat. I don't think that's bad writing, especially the way that whole battle played out. Besides, the "universe" owed Jon one for him getting killed for doing the right thing last season.

And I'm trying really hard to be the shepherd, Ringo. But when you "RIP" sadistic dickbags like Ramsay you make it damn near impossible.

(FYI: Ramsay would not be badass in my book.) 

Edited June 24, 2016 by PetyrPunkinhead
not a badass

[xjlxking]

6 hours ago, El Guapo said:

So HBO released the ratings numbers for this season and the show is averaging 23 million viewers  a week across all platforms beating last year's record of 20 million viewers a week.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/06/donald_trump_takes_the_psychosis_of_the_gop_base_and_amplifies_it.html

I expected the record to be beaten. I'm glad

Though I wonder how many more they would have gotten if HBO now was actually working. My HBO now, including my friends, and my sisters were not working for about 2 hrs 

[Talking Hodor]

On 23.6.2016 at 0:00 PM, Eddy1 said:

I'm looking for a show that's both gripping and makes sense, like GoT in the early series. If GoT had started like it is now, it would have been cancelled long ago.

I've never had a problem understanding where the show is going. It makes perfect sense to me. It's diverged greatly from the books, whereas the earlier TV seasons moved almost in lock step with the books, meaning the audience had two sources from which to make sense out of one narrative. Now, the narratives are very different, and it takes more time to understand each one as such, but in neither case would I say that one is more sensible, logical, or nuanced than the other.

Book readers have been complaining for over a decade that the last two books got bogged down in detail and complexity with too little action (a.k.a. bright lights). The show is seeking to avoid that by telling almost a different story (plus they're on a lot tighter time schedule than GRRM thinks he is). Nonetheless, there are enough similarities (sort of like Avatar and Pocohantas basically telling the same story) that it causes friction in the mind of some who prefer one medium over the other.

I guess I benefit from having begun with the show, rapidly consumed the books during season 3, and am now stuck waiting with everyone else on Winds of Winter while seasons 4-6 have passed by, making the best of them. I like both versions.

Just treat both media as different narratives, don't approach either one with preconceived notions of where it ought to go, and both'll make sense in the end.

[Eddy1]

10 minutes ago, Talking Hodor said:

Now, the narratives are very different, and it takes more time to understand each one as such, but in neither case would I say that one is more sensible, logical, or nuanced than the other.

I wish that were true. Virtually every scene for the past two seasons has contained something that doesn't make sense. This episode contained nonsense right from the start: while fiery boulders were being thrown at them and their city, Dany and Tyrion were just standing there, chatting about the Mad King. That kind of thing has ruined the show for me.

[Talking Hodor]

1 minute ago, Eddy1 said:

I wish that were true. Virtually every scene for the past two seasons has contained something that doesn't make sense. This episode contained nonsense right from the start: while fiery boulders were being thrown at them and their city, Dany and Tyrion were just standing there, chatting about the Mad King. That kind of thing has ruined the show for me.

Real combat is slow and plodding. There's plenty of time to discuss other matters. I speak from firsthand experience in Iraq, where we had vehicles capable of moving a lot faster than medieval instruments of war, yet we still crawled our way up to Baghdad. There was plenty of time to discuss everything imaginable. "Hurry up and wait" is the inofficial motto of any army, and it's always been like that. You have brief intervals of a lot of action, followed by long periods of waiting, inaction, trying to stay awake, waiting, and boredom (and paperwork). Oh, did I mention the waiting?

[El Guapo]

19 minutes ago, Eddy1 said:

I wish that were true. Virtually every scene for the past two seasons has contained something that doesn't make sense. This episode contained nonsense right from the start: while fiery boulders were being thrown at them and their city, Dany and Tyrion were just standing there, chatting about the Mad King. That kind of thing has ruined the show for me.

It ruined the show for you because Dany and Tyrion were discussing what strategy to use to fight the people that were catapulting fiery boulders into the city?

[Talking Hodor]

6 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

  This guy, he gets it. 

And I think GoT is great in giving us consequences for actions and mistakes by characters. Characters we like suffer and lose a lot in this show. A character like Jon doing something dumb and not dying for once is indeed cause for celebration. A good guy got lucky this time instead of an asshat. I don't think that's bad writing, especially the way that whole battle played out. Besides, the "universe" owed Jon one for him getting killed for doing the right thing last season.

(FYI: Ramsay would not be badass in my book.) 

Amen to that. Sometimes if you make a risky, potentially bad decision, but stick with it with 100% conviction and sheer brute force, you can succeed. Jon already found himself in that situation facing 100,000 wildlings with 100 Night's Watchmen and a big effing wall. Plus, his sister saw where his mind was going and decided to contact Littlefinger, also a potentially bad choice, nonetheless. Her raven to Littlefinger saved the day just as much as Jon's crazy attack. Two dubious decisions carried out with conviction won them their home back and set them up with a force capable of facing the real foe by garrisoning every last castle along the Wall.

[Eddy1]

35 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

It ruined the show for you because Dany and Tyrion were discussing what strategy to use to fight the people that were catapulting fiery boulders into the city?

Lol. Nice strawmanning.