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How would you rate episode 609?  

696 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      37
    • 2
      11
    • 3
      16
    • 4
      12
    • 5
      27
    • 6
      22
    • 7
      48
    • 8
      73
    • 9
      159
    • 10
      288


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Ok, this episode had some good scenes.

I liked the image of Grey Worm killing the two standing slavers who wanted to condemn their comrade to death, while sparing the knealing one.

I liked the parley between Dany and the Greyjoy siblings.

 

But that battle was just pure stupidity.

Sansa's too proud to accept Vale help and thus their army has really bad odds and she still dares to bitch about it. Then the Stark side positions their man at what looks like the lower ground. Has no one ever tought Rickon not to flew in a straight line? Clever, Jon, ride into bow distance. Clever, Ramsay, not trying to shoot the enemy commander when he's in bow distance. Yeah, Davos, let's break up your lines and send the men into arrow fire. Clever, Boltons, having a cavalry without lances. Yes, Davos, let's send the bowmen into melee. Hide behind the pile of dead bards! (Yes, many people died in that battle, but seriously, they shouldn't pile up like that.) Sure, Stark men, let yourself be surrounded like that, sure, Bolton men, surround them like that. And just don't poke more spears in there, one row is certainly ennough. Well, it seems to be. Clearly, those sprears are not far enough apart from each other to slip inbetween. Nor is there a giant on the Stark side who could just step over the shields.

Well, Vale knights come, clear the battlefield.

And, the defenders of Winterfell have no competent bowman left except Ramsay, who is the only one who got a good shot at Wun Wun. Jon apparently punches worse than a girl, With Ramsay after all that punches at the head not even having a broken nose.

Most stupid splatter.

 

Why did you guys like did episode? Good battle scenes? What good battle scenes?

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17 hours ago, yomi said:

Why did you guys like did episode? Good battle scenes? What good battle scenes?

For me personally, it was the atmosphere - in particular the way they depicted Jon getting crushed under all the bodies, it felt very claustrophobic. It was all over the place in terms of logic, motivations, and narrative. But I found it very exciting. 

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Yeah, I guess I can understand that. It's just that I myself have a problem to embrace the atmosphere if the story isn't plausible.

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On 26.6.2016 at 11:55 PM, yomi said:

Why did you guys like did episode? Good battle scenes? What good battle scenes?

There was a one-minute-tracking-shot at one point with horses crashing into each other and a whole lot of mayhem. I love that kind of stuff, because they didn't have to shoot it that way, it's just much more difficult, but they did it anyway and that's awesome and for that I would've given this episode a 10 regardless of what else had happened.

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On 21 June 2016 at 6:11 PM, Timett sonof Timett is God said:

lol, the people voting 1 are obviously butthurt the rest of us are loving the show.

We can't have our own opinions? Go ahead, give the episode a ten, I don't give a flying fuck.

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On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 4:37 PM, Darkstream said:

Well, to be blunt, if you like Got you are a tinfoil chaser. I'm not saying this makes you simple minded or that there is anything wrong with it. I myself have my own guilty pleasures that I would consider to be tinfoil chasing. I just don't go around pretending that I like those things for something that they obviously are not. 

Just because you call it something doesn't make it true, it just makes it obvious to everyone that if we don't agree with you, you will assume we are dim witted tin foil ball chasers. Thanks for judging and insulting us based on what you like.

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5 hours ago, dbunting said:

Just because you call it something doesn't make it true, it just makes it obvious to everyone that if we don't agree with you, you will assume we are dim witted tin foil ball chasers. Thanks for judging and insulting us based on what you like.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never once stated or implied that anyone was dim witted. Do you even read the posts that you quote? In the very quote of mine that you decided to reply to, and make unfounded accusations against me with, it specifically states 

 I myself have my own guilty pleasures that I would consider to be tinfoil chasing. 

Are you implying that I am calling myself dim witted? You really need to start paying more attention to the posts that you read if you are going to reply to them. Try reading what I'm actually saying instead of skimming through and picking out random words and then attacking people due to your own insecurities. I fully understand why people enjoy watching Got, and don't think there is anything wrong with it. As stated, I myself engage in the same types of guilty pleasures, but unlike you, I am not in denial about it.

And you're right, me saying something doesn't make it so, but an objective, unbiased observation would confirm that Got is a poorly written show, that is all flash and spectacle, with no substance at all. That is a fact, not an opinion. Enjoy it if that's what you like, but don't come to a forum that's sole purpose is for sharing opinions and discussing the show, if you can't handle hearing the truth about it.

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Just now, Darkstream said:

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never once stated or implied that anyone was dim witted. Do you even read the posts that you quote? In the very quote of mine that you decided to reply to, and make unfounded accusations against me with, it specifically states 

 I myself have my own guilty pleasures that I would consider to be tinfoil chasing. 

Are you implying that I am calling myself dim witted? You really need to start paying more attention to the posts that you read if you are going to reply to them. Try reading what I'm actually saying instead of skimming through and picking out random words and then attacking people due to your own insecurities. I fully understand why people enjoy watching Got, and don't think there is anything wrong with it. As stated, I myself engage in the same types of guilty pleasures, but unlike you, I am not in denial about it.

And you're right, me saying something doesn't make it so, but an objective, unbiased observation would confirm that Got is a poorly written show, that is all flash and spectacle, with no substance at all. That is a fact, not an opinion. Enjoy it if that's what you like, but don't come to a forum that's sole purpose is for sharing opinions and discussing the show, if you can't handle hearing the truth about it.

And you are totally objective... yeah ok. But you keep doing the same thing over and over. You think that I can only enjoy the show as a guilty pleasure, because that's how you watch it, and if I and others don't then we are tin foil ball chaser, which by the way means easily amused, which means dim witted. You fail to recognize that the vast majority of people don't see the show as you do and don't have to.

And again your closing sentence. If you can't handle hearing the truth about it...

Funny thing is the last time I heard a quote close to that was in a movie about someone who had a warped opinion about safety and freedom and whoever didn't agree with him was ignorant and had no idea how things worked.

And lastly, I do enjoy discussing this with you, we will just never agree.

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49 minutes ago, dbunting said:

And you are totally objective... yeah ok. But you keep doing the same thing over and over. You think that I can only enjoy the show as a guilty pleasure, because that's how you watch it, and if I and others don't then we are tin foil ball chaser, which by the way means easily amused, which means dim witted. You fail to recognize that the vast majority of people don't see the show as you do and don't have to.

And again your closing sentence. If you can't handle hearing the truth about it...

Funny thing is the last time I heard a quote close to that was in a movie about someone who had a warped opinion about safety and freedom and whoever didn't agree with him was ignorant and had no idea how things worked.

And lastly, I do enjoy discussing this with you, we will just never agree.

OK, well I don't agree that if you enjoy "tin foil chasing" it implies that you are dim witted. That was not my intent, and if that is how you took it, then I apologize. Take a  fireworks display for an example, you do not need to be smart to enjoy them, and it doesn't involve making sense out of them to enjoy them either. People watch them because they look cool and beautiful, does that make anyone that enjoys fireworks dim witted? Of course it doesn't.

And I don't fail to recognize that people view the show differently, and I'm perfectly fine with the fact that they do. If the issues that I have with the show don't bother you, then great, but to flat out refute that these flaws exist is just stubbornness or denial. There are established academic standards that can be used to judge a piece of literature objectively, and when using these standards to judge the writing in Got, it fails miserably in every way. If the script from the show was being marked by a professor in an academic institution, it would receive a failing grade. That is not just my opinion, but a fact.

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16 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

And I don't fail to recognize that people view the show differently, and I'm perfectly fine with the fact that they do. If the issues that I have with the show don't bother you, then great, but to flat out refute that these flaws exist is just stubbornness or denial. There are established academic standards that can be used to judge a piece of literature objectively, and when using these standards to judge the writing in Got, it fails miserably in every way. If the script from the show was being marked by a professor in an academic institution, it would receive a failing grade. That is not just my opinion, but a fact.

Ok, question then, these academic standards, are they used to grade books, movie and tv scripts? If so, care to share examples of each?

As to the fire works, ehh...after a few colors it gets old. Now if you want to talk about watching something that is flashy and yet still horrible, Independence Day 2. It is a horrible movie. It has all kinds of special effects and CGI but the writing and acting is to me, what GOT is to you, I would suspect. If you watch GOT and see it like I saw Independence Day 2, then I feel sorry for you. But I can say this, I will never watch it again.

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6 hours ago, dbunting said:

Ok, question then, these academic standards, are they used to grade books, movie and tv scripts? If so, care to share examples of each?

As to the fire works, ehh...after a few colors it gets old. Now if you want to talk about watching something that is flashy and yet still horrible, Independence Day 2. It is a horrible movie. It has all kinds of special effects and CGI but the writing and acting is to me, what GOT is to you, I would suspect. If you watch GOT and see it like I saw Independence Day 2, then I feel sorry for you. But I can say this, I will never watch it again.

Of course these standards are used to judge books, movies, and TV scripts. Why do you think movies such as Transformers, Jurassic World, Independence day, etc. , although commercially successful and popular, are not considered to be great works of literature? These established standards are the only way to objectively judge any form of art, which for the most part is judged by subjective opinions. My assertion is not that Got cannot be judged as a good show for what it is, it is great spectacle that millions of people enjoy watching, which would validate it as a great show, subjectively speaking. But to claim it is an intelligently written show that meets the established standards of quality writing is just nonsense.

You are missing the point about the fireworks, you may find them boring, but millions of people around the world would disagree. All sorts of people watch fireworks every year, even though it is basically just tinfoil chasing, that does not make them dim witted, as you stated I was implying.  I brought up the fireworks to illustrate that I don't think you are dim witted just because you enjoy something that I would consider tinfoil chasing. 

You seem to have the impression that I am looking down on people who love and enjoy watching Got, but you could not be further from the truth. If you look at my post history, I have never replied to any of the posts gushing about how great the show is. The only time I've responded to someone is when the go off calling people who are expressing their opinions, or rating the show poorly, a troll. Calling out the show as a poorly written program, is a perfectly valid observation and is the objective truth. If the writing doesn't bother you, and doesn't affect you viewing pleasure, you have every right to claim that it is a great show, just as I have a right to point out the flaws and rate it as low as I subjectively feel is validated. If someone can ignore the flaws and rate it a ten, then I am justified in ignoring the production values, and rating it a one. Until people start deducting points for flaws that they very often admit to, why should I have to give points just because there are some admirable aspects to the show?  I can admit that there are good things about the show, but I am unable to enjoy them because I am constantly being pulled out of submersion due to the ridiculous plots and characters, and the cringworthy dialogue. If I am unable to enjoy the awesome cinematography, sets, and cgi because of this, I don't feel obligated to give it any credit in my rating.

Edited by Darkstream

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15 hours ago, Darkstream said:

Of course these standards are used to judge books, movies, and TV scripts. Why do you think movies such as Transformers, Jurassic World, Independence day, etc. , although commercially successful and popular, are not considered to be great works of literature? These established standards are the only way to objectively judge any form of art, which for the most part is judged by subjective opinions. My assertion is not that Got cannot be judged as a good show for what it is, it is great spectacle that millions of people enjoy watching, which would validate it as a great show, subjectively speaking. But to claim it is an intelligently written show that meets the established standards of quality writing is just nonsense.

 

I guess I didn't word my question clearly. Can you give a literary example of a book that has been graded by these standards? For example the book "The Learning Tree", what did it grade out to using these standards?

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20 hours ago, dbunting said:

I guess I didn't word my question clearly. Can you give a literary example of a book that has been graded by these standards? For example the book "The Learning Tree", what did it grade out to using these standards?

:rolleyes: it's quite apparent what you are trying to do here. Do you think that if I can't provide you with a "report card" grading the example you've given, that it supports your assertion that a piece of literature cannot be judged objectively? Sorry, but it doesn't. I'm sure there has been an academic evaluation of the Learning Tree, but the seven hells if I'm going to wade through the piles of crap online to find one,  just to prove a point, that by all means should be accepted by anyone with a shred of common sense.

But anyway, I'll somewhat play along. Now, I have not myself read the Learning Tree, so I cannot give you a personal evaluation based on objective academic standards, but I'm assuming that you have read it, so let me ask you a couple of questions regarding the Learning Tree.

...

Is there a meaningful and consistent theme presented throughout? And, in light of the fact that we are using this as a contrast to Got, let me also ask, is the portrayal of this theme hamfisted and offensive?

Does the plot make sense? Does it progress in a plausible and logical manner? Are there gaping plot holes in nearly every scene? Does one have to look to outside sources to explain what or why something is happening?

Has the sequence of events been presented in a linear and/or understandable and logical sequence? Has the passage of time between events been properly represented or explained?

Is the continuity of previously established facts, dialogue and so forth maintained throughout the story? Are the established  in-universe laws and rules maintained throughout, or do they fluctuate in accordance to meet the needs of the narrative?

Is the characterization realistic and consistent? Do the characters actions and motivations seem plausible and conform to that of the established traits of said character, or do they make illogical decision for the purpose of moving the plot from point x to y? Do they, unless intentionally and with relation to the story been inflicted with a personality disorder or sickness, show signs similar to that of a person with schizophrenia, who's personality changes according to what's needed for the plot? Or, do the characters develop sudden amnesia, and then miraculously shake off this debilitation once it suits the plot?

Edited by Darkstream

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If I had the answers to these questions I could make an objective, although rudimentary, judgement on whether or not the Learning Tree is a well written book without even reading it. That's not to say that this judgement wouldn't be lacking, or without a degree of flaw, as I will admit, even an objective analyse does pertain an element of subjective analyse. I'm not trying to assert that a work of literature can be judged in terms of a quantifiable right or wrong, as it would seem you are under the impression that I am.  And sure, you could challenge me on some of the flaws that I find in the show regarding plot holes, and character motivations and such. In the earlier seasons, you would of even had a respectable case, that warranted debate. But at this point, with the undeniable extent of which the show has failed to even address any of the issues I've eluded to above, such as plausibility of plot, characterization, continuity, etc. there is no way that an assertion that Got is not a poorly written show is even considerable to be a valid stance. As I've said before, if these issues don't bother you, and don't take away from your viewing experience, then you can rightfully so claim that Got is a quality show in regards to the entertainment value that it provides you, but to deny that these flaws even exist, and say that it is a well written work of literature is just a blatantly erroneous assertion.

Edited by Darkstream

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15 hours ago, Darkstream said:

:rolleyes: it's quite apparent what you are trying to do here. Do you think that if I can't provide you with a "report card" grading the example you've given, that it supports your assertion that a piece of literature cannot be judged objectively? Sorry, but it doesn't. I'm sure there has been an academic evaluation of the Learning Tree, but the seven hells if I'm going to wade through the piles of crap online to find one,  just to prove a point, that by all means should be accepted by anyone with a shred of common sense.

But anyway, I'll somewhat play along. Now, I have not myself read the Learning Tree, so I cannot give you a personal evaluation based on objective academic standards, but I'm assuming that you have read it, so let me ask you a couple of questions regarding the Learning Tree.

...

Is there a meaningful and consistent theme presented throughout? And, in light of the fact that we are using this as a contrast to Got, let me also ask, is the portrayal of this theme hamfisted and offensive?

Does the plot make sense? Does it progress in a plausible and logical manner? Are there gaping plot holes in nearly every scene? Does one have to look to outside sources to explain what or why something is happening?

Has the sequence of events been presented in a linear and/or understandable and logical sequence? Has the passage of time between events been properly represented or explained?

Is the continuity of previously established facts, dialogue and so forth maintained throughout the story? Are the established  in-universe laws and rules maintained throughout, or do they fluctuate in accordance to meet the needs of the narrative?

Is the characterization realistic and consistent? Do the characters actions and motivations seem plausible and conform to that of the established traits of said character, or do they make illogical decision for the purpose of moving the plot from point x to y? Do they, unless intentionally and with relation to the story been inflicted with a personality disorder or sickness, show signs similar to that of a person with schizophrenia, who's personality changes according to what's needed for the plot? Or, do the characters develop sudden amnesia, and then miraculously shake off this debilitation once it suits the plot?

Actually what I was going for was, is the grading system reliant on humans. I was just looking to see if it was based on the "graders" opinion, and it sounds like it does.  When you had stated what you did about academic standards I simply wanted to find out more about it and tossed out some examples so I could see how they fit.

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4 hours ago, dbunting said:

Actually what I was going for was, is the grading system reliant on humans.

As opposed to what, being reliant on grumpkins and snarks? ;)

4 hours ago, dbunting said:

I was just looking to see if it was based on the "graders" opinion, and it sounds like it does.  When you had stated what you did about academic standards I simply wanted to find out more about it and tossed out some examples so I could see how they fit.

Yeah, to a degree, as I said, seasons one through four could be debated, seasons five and six, the severity of disregard for these standards would take human opinion out of the equation, no argument to the contrary can be taken seriously at this point, it's a fact, not an opinion, Got is a poorly written show.

Edited by Darkstream

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1 hour ago, Darkstream said:

As opposed to what, being reliant on grumpkins and snarks? ;)

Yeah, to a degree, as I said, seasons one through four could be debated, seasons five and six, the severity of disregard for these standards would take human opinion out of the equation, no argument to the contrary can be taken seriously at this point, it's a fact, not an opinion, Got is a poorly written show.

Your fact, not millions reality.

 

Also, be serious, we all know grumpkins and snarks are illiterate.

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10 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Your fact, not millions reality.

 

Also, be serious, we all know grumpkins and snarks are illiterate.

Well, I wish your argument would have held ground back when I was in high school, receiving failing grades in my creative writing class.

At least there is one thing we can agree on, we will never agree on this matter.

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On 7/5/2016 at 0:45 PM, Darkstream said:

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never once stated or implied that anyone was dim witted. Do you even read the posts that you quote? In the very quote of mine that you decided to reply to, and make unfounded accusations against me with, it specifically states 

 I myself have my own guilty pleasures that I would consider to be tinfoil chasing. 

Are you implying that I am calling myself dim witted? You really need to start paying more attention to the posts that you read if you are going to reply to them. Try reading what I'm actually saying instead of skimming through and picking out random words and then attacking people due to your own insecurities. I fully understand why people enjoy watching Got, and don't think there is anything wrong with it. As stated, I myself engage in the same types of guilty pleasures, but unlike you, I am not in denial about it.

And you're right, me saying something doesn't make it so, but an objective, unbiased observation would confirm that Got is a poorly written show, that is all flash and spectacle, with no substance at all. That is a fact, not an opinion. Enjoy it if that's what you like, but don't come to a forum that's sole purpose is for sharing opinions and discussing the show, if you can't handle hearing the truth about it.

umm, you're clearly watching the show.  Chase that tin foil.

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