(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion

[Landru]

1 minute ago, ummester said:

Perhaps - but then it will feel dumb to me in the books also. I just didn't buy Ramsay's dogs eating him - and definitely not in the aggressive way they did. He had control of those animals. I'm not sure if he was cruel to them or not, it seems like they were the only thing he wasn't but perhaps he was. If he was cruel to them, then they may have turned on him, eventually - but they would not have done it quickly and aggressively.

Actually, the scene would have been far more impressive if Sansa just left him there with the dogs and he said, "they won't eat me'

She could have said, 'we'll see how hungry that get after another week, or another 2.'

Then she could leave and they could just show the dogs looking  at him and a hint of fear on his face.

Next episode they could revisit the cell and show the dogs have taken chunks out of him.

Would have felt more realistic and far less corny/comical.

There are three fundamental problems with the whole scene:

1) Even if Ramsey was cruel to his dogs, he was still their leader. If they were going to eat anyone, it would be the interloper in their kennel, not their master.

2) The show established that the dogs were very disciplined and obeyed Ramsey's commands. How about an attack command there, Ramsey?

3) We've seen Ramsey do the impossible, including burning 50 tons of hard tack and salted meat under the nose of an army with 20 good men. He was left unguarded, in a chair, tied up with rope? Really?

[W1NT3RF3LL]

12 hours ago, LulaMae Barnes said:

Sansa is beyond annoying - why doesn't she gather all her multiple supporters and go into battle herself?!?

I absolutely HATE her attitude - she knows everything better than experienced soldiers like Davos & Jon - always giving useless advice about battle tactics and such.

She should just stick to embroidery & lemon cakes....

 

To be fair, I think she was in a battle with herself.  She knew she had the vale's support, but was scared to share with Jon for probably 1000's of reasons.  I mean for one the whole back story between the two.  You don't think there are some that know of it, or how did LF become who he is, and the list goes on and on.  She was biding her time until it was right, but she didn't have the time that was her problem.

[Facebookless Man]

Something seems to be missing from all the Sansa talk. Maybe I missed it.

 

 

 

 

 

... she enjoyed watching a man get eaten by dogs.

 

[SerMixalot]

8 hours ago, Forlong the Fat said:

As Rodrik mentioned, one possibility is that they came by sea. They could land in White Harbor fand would not cross the land of anyone known to be loyal to Bolton. In fact, we have reason to believe Lord Too Fat to Sit a Horse may yet appear . . . 

I believe it was mentioned in show that they were at Moat Caitlin

[Lord Freypie]

Dany's team completely forgot the slaves.

Tyrion offered peace to the masters allowing them to continue slavery for 7 years.They betrayed this agreement.After showing them Dany's power I expected they were going to be told they must end slavery NOW as a punishment. Dany's forces just burn a ship (probably full of slave oarsmen), kill 2 masters and send the third back home with no new word about slavery.

Greyworm and Missandei who opposed Tyrion idea probably forgot to complain to Dany about this aspect of his politic, since they are drinking and joking whith the man who accepted to see their peers kept in chains for 7 years they don't give a shit.

[Tyrek Lannister]

I'd have preferred Jon to behead Ramsay in the Godswood in front of the Northern Lords...eh whatever.

[W1NT3RF3LL]

1 hour ago, Apathetic Onlooker said:

I've been arguing that since the beginning as well.  I mean fuck-- it might have even shown that she'd LEARNED something from Littlefinger and Cersei and such.  Instead of relying on Baelish and being indebted to him for her power, she could have used the borrowed power of the Vale army to pressure the other Northern lords to her side.  What Northern house wants to stand aside while an outside army restores their lieges to power?  It's a disgrace to honor and also makes them look disloyal, which would give Sansa or Jon the ability to offer up their keeps away to all those Wildlings and Vale 3rd cousins looking for a place to establish themselves.  But nope-- she never attempts to use this to her advantage.  Yet somehow leaning on her Littlefinger crutch as her sole source of military power and never acquiring any kind of loyalty of her own from the Northern lords is being 'strong' and 'empowered'?  Please.

I think the issue is there is a lot of explaining from her on how she got the Vale forces to begin with, who by the way have been completely neutral during this entire time period to come North and fight the Boltons.  She simply doesn't have time to concoct a story to Jon that will sway him in coming to agreements with LF.  You have understand LF is for the Lannisters (At least that is what the world sees) then lets not forget all the other crap that is thrown in there as well.  We also don't know how much is known of LF in the North with him betraying Ned.  We knew Cat knew about it, so this can lead to some controversy.  I don't agree with what she did, however I think she is in tough spot, and people are going to want more information seeing as they will be making pacts and going into battle with each other.

[Elisabetta Duò]

3 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

The most annoying part of this episode was Tyrion and his monologue to Theon: "When we met, you made dwarf jokes at me. Dwarf. Jokes. So clever, the jokes. Because I'm a dwarf. And so you did what? Jokes. About dwarves. And other people do jokes too. Sorry, did you asked about what they do jokes? I'mma tell you. It's about dwarves. You hear me? Jokes about dwarves!!!"

I disagree here (and I've heavily cricitized the way D&D made Tyrion look this season, especially the Missandei-Greyworm-Tyrion interaction, so it's not hollow defence).

I think Tyrion just jumped at the first occasion to get back at Theon but the dwarf jokes weren't the real iussue there (just the icing on the cake)

(1) he didn’t say anything really ‘heavy’ to him (much ado about nothing, really... he made a couple of remarks who are nothing to what he has to bear any day; plus we’re speaking of a world where people kill each other like nothing, I don’t think Theon had his heart broken.. people seem to be more affected by that than Theon himself was, he just looked anxious/eager  to explain he’s not that asshole he was anymore).

(3) Tyrion thought Theon murdered Bran and Rickon betraying the Starks, that he was a murderer of childs, something Tyrion totally can’t stand (see AKOK and show) ... so here he was probably being even kinder than he wanted to, for the sake of the negotiation; Tyrion has been told Theon was the murderer he is totally against child murder (and very respectful of the Starks); also, he doesn't respect him enough tyo think him worthy of Winterfell and he thinks a Stark should always rule Winterfell

Spoiler

there is even a passage in AKOK where Tyrion is unable to rejoice of Robb Starks' troubles even if as a Lannister he was supposed to because of Theon potentially having Winterfell and he mentally thinks it would be wrong because Theon doesn’t embody the qualities of the Starks and also Tyrion thinks - in a very 'Starkish' manner - that Winterfell should always be ruled by a Stark.

No doubt he should be rejoicing. Robb Stark would have to turn north now. If he could not defend his own home and hearth, he was no sort of king at all. It meant reprieve for the west, for House Lannister, and yet . . .

Tyrion had only the vaguest memory of Theon Greyjoy from his time with the Starks. A callow youth, always smiling, skilled with a bow; it was hard to imagine him as Lord of Winterfell. The Lord of Winterfell would always be a Stark. He remembered their godswood; the tall sentinels armored in their grey-green needles, the great oaks, the hawthorn and ash and soldier pines, and at the center the heart tree standing like some pale giant frozen in time. He could almost smell the place, earthy and brooding, the smell of centuries, and he remembered how dark the wood had been even by day. That wood was Winterfell. It was the north. I never felt so out of place as I did when I walked there, so much an unwelcome intruder. He wondered if the Greyjoys would feel it too. The castle might well be theirs, but never that godswood. Not in a year, or ten, or fifty.

(3) Tyrion is the adviser of the Queen and Theon is begging for the Queen’s help. In Westeros these kind of ‘ranks’ matter when people talk to each other. Tyrion wanted to make clear to Daenerys, who didn't know Theon, who he was as a person to warn her (the Theon he rembered, of course).

(4) Tyrion doesn’t know what Theon has been through. He still remembers the Theon of S1, whom he thinks has become a murderer of childs on top of his assholeness ... he has no way to know how much Theon has changed.

(5) Theon was an arrogant brat in S1, he was a total di** at the beginning of the series:

- not only with Tyrion (making jokes about a person who is half your height and who is considered a ‘monster' in that society is not as low as being generically rude to an handsome, fit man who lives comfortably at Winterfell)

- with women

Spoiler

(if you read the books you know that… i still feel for that POOR girl he banged and mistreated so badly)

- with almost anyone else really;

Tyrion had no way to know the man had changed so much and I don’t get all this fuss about a couple of (not even so harsh) remarks. 

[sweetsunray]

36 minutes ago, ummester said:

Perhaps - but then it will feel dumb to me in the books also. I just didn't buy Ramsay's dogs eating him - and definitely not in the aggressive way they did. He had control of those animals. I'm not sure if he was cruel to them or not, it seems like they were the only thing he wasn't but perhaps he was. If he was cruel to them, then they may have turned on him, eventually - but they would not have done it quickly and aggressively.

Actually, the scene would have been far more impressive if Sansa just left him there with the dogs and he said, "they won't eat me'

She could have said, 'we'll see how hungry that get after another week, or another 2.'

Then she could leave and they could just show the dogs looking  at him and a hint of fear on his face.

Next episode they could revisit the cell and show the dogs have taken chunks out of him.

Would have felt more realistic and far less corny/comical.

I do think that Ramsay will die, eaten by his dogs... In fact, I think he's dead by the time the Pink Letter arrives (7 days), and that he's been tricked and locked into the crypts with his dogs by Mance and the remaining spearwives (lured there by a trail of sausages as Ramsay hunts for Jeyne's kidnappers). Eventually those dogs will be hungry, and Ramsay will be near starvation (call back to Lady Hornwood).

[SerMixalot]

FWIW, it is HEAVILY implied that Jaime has never told anyone the king slaying details.  His scene with Brienne in the bath at harrenhall is definitely a confession scene, she even asks why he has never told anyone before.  He whole speech is an act of unburdening.  Just saying.

 

Also, I thought the guy Tormund killed was Karstark. Show fails when it cannot make the death of secondary characters, well obvious.

[Wendel Shoemaker]

34 minutes ago, Facebookless Man said:

Something seems to be missing from all the Sansa talk. Maybe I missed it.

 

 

 

 

 

... she enjoyed watching a man get eaten by dogs.

 

This is what disturbed me the most. That and Jon's fisting into the ground.

[nara]

I wondered why no one was surprised to see a giant fighting among the wildlings.  Surely none of Ramsay's army had seen one before.

My biggest complaint is that no one thought to take Rickon to Melisandre to be brought back.  Seems like a plot hole given that Jon specifically spoke to her about her skills in that area.  It may not have worked, but still...Maybe next week Jon has to choose between asking her to revive Rickon and punishing her for Shireen...

[SerMixalot]

To all those who think Sandra was acting "stupidly" for not telling Jon about the Vale Army, it is clear that she did it intentionally.

Since she arrived at Castle Black she has been working to make herself Queen of Winterfell, family be damned.  This was not stupidity this was intentional manipulation and betrayal.

[SuperMario]

3 minutes ago, nara said:

I wondered why no one was surprised to see a giant fighting among the wildlings.  Surely none of Ramsay's army had seen one before.

My biggest complaint is that no one thought to take Rickon to Melisandre to be brought back.  Seems like a plot hole given that Jon specifically spoke to her about her skills in that area.  It may not have worked, but still...Maybe next week Jon has to choose between asking her to revive Rickon and punishing her for Shireen...

That's a good point. Wait until the White Walkers arrive. They'll probably all treat them like something as common as gnats.

[Le Cygne]

6 hours ago, teemo said:

Just watched some of the episode to watch Ramsay die.  I have to say....I already knew Clarke and Harrington (although a little better now) were bad actors....but what the hell?  Sophie Turner?  She is bad.  She doesn't change expressions ever, uses the same monotonous voice....she is truly awful.  

Truly. And that's what we got instead of Jon's story. Resurrection? Parentage? His own journey? Not important. Background character to Sandra revenge fanfic? You got it.

[Red Tiger]

9 minutes ago, nara said:

I wondered why no one was surprised to see a giant fighting among the wildlings.  Surely none of Ramsay's army had seen one before.

It's simple, its cause they're Northmen. You dont hear Northmen snickering at white walkers or monsters beyond the Wall because they are more superstitious than the Southerners. In the books it's the southern soldiers from Stannis' camp who are amazed at Wun Wun, not the Northmen and it's hinted at that the Umbers have some ties to the giants.

[Le Cygne]

21 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

To all those who think Sandra was acting "stupidly" for not telling Jon about the Vale Army, it is clear that she did it intentionally.

I agree. I think it's clear she didn't tell him intentionally, they kept hammering in she doesn't trust him. But I think she's also stupid. The two things are not exclusive.

I don't think she becomes queen. Who knows what she wanted other than revenge. She didn't seem to value Jon's or Rickon's lives much. So much for family.

[David Selig]

7 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

To all those who think Sandra was acting "stupidly" for not telling Jon about the Vale Army, it is clear that she did it intentionally.

Since she arrived at Castle Black she has been working to make herself Queen of Winterfell, family be damned.  This was not stupidity this was intentional manipulation and betrayal.

Intentional manipulation and betrayal are often the result of acting stupid, and this a textbook example.

[SerMixalot]

2 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Sorry, call me "Team Samsa" But I fail to see Samsa as a bitch as most people here. She went through hell, and became strong. I think people are reading too much on her intentions. I haven't seen her been as arrogant as Cersei, Asha, or even Dany. She was gentle with Brienne, Theon, and remember the scene of her eating at the Night Watch.  Why when a woman becomes strong she has to be called a "Bitch"?

Respectfully, since you asked a question and I am not debating.  I think the issue is that Sansa, in show, pushed Jon to attack WF and then throughout the entire planning process for that attack withheld the fact that she had the Vale Army in her control and was on its way.  That is the sign of someone who is betraying their family.  compound that with her complaining that no one was listening to her and Jon was literally saying we need more men puts Sansa in a very bad light.

[Red Tiger]

4 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Respectfully, since you asked a question and I am not debating.  I think the issue is that Sansa, in show, pushed Jon to attack WF and then throughout the entire planning process for that attack withheld the fact that she had the Vale Army in her control and was on its way.  That is the sign of someone who is betraying their family.  compound that with her complaining that no one was listening to her and Jon was literally saying we need more men puts Sansa in a very bad light.

She.Was.Not.Certain.Littlefinger.Would.Help

She does not fully trust Littlefinger. Sure she could have told Jon about potential soldiers, but it was a gamble. Suppose she tells him about the Knights of the Vale, Jon changes the plans to accomodate them and then Littlefinger decides not to help. I mean it aint the first time Littlefinger screwed Sansa over.