(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion

[LulaMae Barnes]

3 hours ago, LazyBazooka said:

-Dany telling Yara "no more pillaging and raping" and yet she has a massive army of savage reavers and rapers (the Dothraki) that she'll be taking to Westeros; this creates a problem for the narrative - either the Dothraki will go a mass-raping spree throughout the Seven Kingdoms, destroying cities and raping/killing thousands of innocents because that's fundamental to their culture (which most likely won't happen, as it would make Dany look bad and she's essentially Jesus with teats on the show) or once the Dothraki screamers land in Westeros they won't rape at all and will be perfectly well-behaved, suddenly abandoning their culture just because Dany told them to (and probably because D&D won't want to risk being criticised by #notallmuslims), making her even more infallible. Also, Yara gives up the Ironborn culture of reaving because Dany told her to just like that. The Ironborn won't be happy about that, but I'm betting this civil unrest will be overlooked by D&D.

-The very poor, hamfisted telegraphing of wildfire. It's like D&D don't believe their audience is smart enough to remember Jaime's bathtub confession. Thanks for undermining Jaime's arc even further by having him tell Tyrion about why he killed Aerys too, by the way.
 

Thank you for adding that!

When KellyC. told Lesbasha/Lesbyara(?) "alright, we have deal - but NO MORE reaving,roving,raiding...or raping!...pinky-promise!?!" I was expecting her to add "...because I have people for that myself!"  and maybe " I don't need your reavers and rapers - my horde of Dothraki will do just fine without your people - you will have to find new jobs."

Besides - I still don't understand why exactly Theon and Lesbasha GO to Meereen in the first place - to offer their services to a total stranger they know hardly anything about (other than: DRAGONS) just to have their uncle killed and make Yara the ruler of the Ironborn....but whatever.

 

And the Jaime-thing really pisses me off!  To be honest since season 4 I am not a great fan of show-Jaime aka Larry (the lapdog) anymore, but I will never believe he ever told ANYONE (not even his beloved Cersei) the truth about killing Aerys. That's why his confession to Brienne, who is a stranger to him, his captor, someone he actually doesn't even like (or at least he thinks he dislikes her), is soooo significant. IMHO

He never did in the books and it was also never mentioned in the show before - I mean, most of the quality dialogue between Jaime and his brother is about smashing beetles,right??

But I suppose the self-adulation show D&D have after the actual GoT to justify their poor piece of workmanship would tell us: yes,that happened off-screen, because creatively it made sense to us....

 

[Ruhail]

Btw DandD cant remember their own show (Again)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr39g6hPB_8 

[storm.131]

16 minutes ago, Steelegrave said:

That was like a fucking half inch of snow.  Where was the snow on the battlefield?  Where was the snow blanketing Winterfell?  You're in Perth.  Have you ever seen snow? A dusting of snow doesn't stop an army.  It doesn't cushion a 40 foot foot leap and it doesn't throw wooden sculptures around like paper.

Don't come here for debate.  Certainly when you don't understand.  The reference "what snows" was ironical.  This part of the story is when winter has come to the north.  There are feet of snow that stopped an army and cushioned a dangerous fall from the walls of Winterfell.  And the idiots who write this show seem to have just forgotten it. 

Calm down Mary.  Why didn't you say you it was an ironic comment to start with?

I mentioned snow because it's part of the harsh weather conditions in the north, all of which would have contributed in scattering whatever was left of the pyre.  My point was, Davos would not have found a neat pile of burnt logs and a wooden toy amongst it after all the time that had elapsed.

And FYI just because I live in Perth, it doesn't mean I've lived here all my life and haven't seen the snow.  We do live in an age when people travel in case you didn't know.

[blckp]

16 hours ago, Steelegrave said:

That was like a fucking half inch of snow.  Where was the snow on the battlefield?  Where was the snow blanketing Winterfell?  You're in Perth.  Have you ever seen snow? A dusting of snow doesn't stop an army.  It doesn't cushion a 40 foot foot leap and it doesn't throw wooden sculptures around like paper.

Don't come here for debate.  Certainly when you don't understand.  The reference "what snows" was ironical.  This part of the story is when winter has come to the north.  There are feet of snow that stopped an army and cushioned a dangerous fall from the walls of Winterfell.  And the idiots who write this show seem to have just forgotten it. 

Jon Snow's almighty plot armor solves every problem

[LulaMae Barnes]

32 minutes ago, Steelegrave said:

That was like a fucking half inch of snow.  Where was the snow on the battlefield?  Where was the snow blanketing Winterfell?  You're in Perth.  Have you ever seen snow? A dusting of snow doesn't stop an army.  It doesn't cushion a 40 foot foot leap and it doesn't throw wooden sculptures around like paper.

Don't come here for debate.  Certainly when you don't understand.  The reference "what snows" was ironical.  This part of the story is when winter has come to the north.  There are feet of snow that stopped an army and cushioned a dangerous fall from the walls of Winterfell.  And the idiots who write this show seem to have just forgotten it. 

Thank you!

There is hardly any snow in the Jon/Sansa/Davos camp - this is just drizzle - a tiny whiff of snow which would stop or distract no one.

Winterfell or the battlefield infront of it has no snow at all. There is supposed to be at least 20 to 40 feet of snow there -  it was stated in one of Theon's chapters.

I know , I know - showdefenders will now say: but this is because Stannis burned Shireen and Melisandre did some magic and blah....

 

Oooh, by the way: the idiots haven't only forgotten about the massive amount of snow in Winterfell and its surroundings - there is still NO WINTER anywhere else in Westeros either. Not in the Riverlands, not in the Vale and most definitely not in Kings Landing - where it should be bitingly cold by now as well.

So, "Winter is gone" or  "Winter was delayed" - I guess.

[WeCameFromNorth]

People, what is it with the titles of these topics? Ran made spelling mistake at some point, and from that time on, all these topics are called without reprecussion.

Sorry to be off topic, but I notice it every time

[LulaMae Barnes]

1 minute ago, WeCameFromNorth said:

People, what is it with the titles of these topics? Ran made spelling mistake at some point, and from that time on, all these topics are called without reprecussion.

Sorry to be off topic, but I notice it every time

Ooops. Sorry. I just copied that ;o) I will watch it next time.

Let's just call it "tradition" till then.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

4 hours ago, Ash Enshugar said:

The problem I guess is that you can't root for characters that are unlikeable and stupid. I can't really think of a single living character that doesn't meet those criteria. They've made Brienne into a emotionless T-1000, they've made Sansa into a vindictive girl who acts dumb and complains a lot. Jon is a sulking shell of a man who looks as if he's about to cry in every scene. Arya's arc is completely pointless, Daenerys is Genghis Khan with just about as much conscience, and Tyrion is a comic relief character.

Who exactly am I to root for in this story anymore?

This.

You feel literally nothing while watching the show at this point. Most good movies and books are supposed to evoke emotion in the watcher/reader, not leave them with the feeling "WTF?" 

I mean, honestly, I don't feel for any characters in the show anymore, besides Theon (all credits to Alfie Allen) and Davos. Everyone else is either boring and soulless(Jon,Cersei,Tyrion), an idiot(Stark clan), or horrible and mean(Show!Jaime,Yara, Brienne).

On a side note, it is amazing how they reduced arguably one of the most compelling characters in the books (and formerly,show), Tyrion, into such a tedious, one-note character. You may love or hate book Tyrion, but boring he is not.

[LulaMae Barnes]

Just now, Little Scribe of Naath said:

This.

You feel literally nothing while watching the show at this point. Most good movies and books are supposed to evoke emotion in the watcher/reader, not leave them with the feeling "WTF?" 

I mean, honestly, I don't feel for any characters in the show anymore, besides Theon (all credits to Alfie Allen) and Davos. Everyone else is either boring and soulless(Jon,Cersei,Tyrion), an idiot(Stark clan), or horrible and mean(Show!Jaime,Yara, Brienne).

On a side note, it is amazing how they reduced arguably one of the most compelling characters in the books (and formerly,show), Tyrion, into such a tedious, one-not character. You may love or hate book Tyrion, but boring he is not.

In the books I LOVE several characters, like a lot, hate some - but with GoT I just don't care anymore.

Sometimes I wish characters I love in the books will finally die in GoT - so they are released from their crucial show agony. They would be "at rest"

[Little Scribe of Naath]

10 minutes ago, LulaMae Barnes said:

In the books I LOVE several characters, like a lot, hate some - but with GoT I just don't care anymore.

Sometimes I wish characters I love in the books will finally die in GoT - so they are released from their crucial show agony. They would be "at rest"

Every character in GOT has just one quality: being "badass". How can anyone care then, if every single character is the same?

With the books, it is truly amazing as to how one man has crafted such a wide variety of characters so believably, that they are almost like real people. There is a quality which will appeal to the reader, in some or the other character(s), for everybody who is reading.

[PenguinrRevolt]

21 hours ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Google: parley

Yes, I know what that is. But why respect the rules of it? They murdered his family at a freakin' wedding. I think all forms of 'honor and trust' are out the window with regards to Freys/Boltons/Lannisters at this point. 

J: "Fight me instead of our armies. "

R: "Nope, our odds are much better." 

J: "Ah screw it. " Shivs Ramsey's in the bowels. 

[teemo]

1 hour ago, TinfoilToolate said:

Stop your bitching. I dont think ive ever seen a finer filmed example of medieval warfare, and im pretty well versed in that aspect of film.

You don't get anything....D&D are very educated and made it clear that this was based on ROMAN warfare.  Duh.

Quote

Yes there are major, valid complaints to be had. But if you can't step back from the negativity and think "holy shit that was incredible," i don't think you need to bother us or yourself with this show and your opinions. 

 But why?  This thread is all about negativity!!  And what if I don't have any, "Holy shit, that was incredible moments?"

[teemo]

2 hours ago, WeCameFromNorth said:

People, what is it with the titles of these topics? Ran made spelling mistake at some point, and from that time on, all these topics are called without reprecussion.

Sorry to be off topic, but I notice it every time

I started this thread back in season 2 and usually am the one to start the thread every Sunday if I don't forget, and I'm almost 100% positive I've never made this mistake...mostly because it's been on autofill for years.  

[Millimidget]

On 6/19/2016 at 9:36 PM, LadyDoom said:

But when asked for her opinion she says she doesn't know how to do things better. but hey girl power = bitching and acting tough without any real backing now. 

I prefer the Legend of Billie Jean

[The Knight in Motley]

Deadpan Dragontits, First of her name, Retconner of the Dothraki, Retconner of the Gold born.

I mean for fucks sake, did they just CGI Clarke's face into one expression? 

Listen to that meeting with Theon/Yara.  give us the iron islands, we'll give up reaving and raping and bend the knee.  I do so hope we get a good action scene after Yara tries to sell that to her followers.  

How Tyrion kept a straight face when a Greyjoy said they'd give all that up?

and which is worse, the fact that Yara is making that pact, or the fact that its genuine.

I liked some of the battle cinematography, but the worst part of this episode was that they burned so much of their budget and so much of their effort to make this one episode...that the heart was just gone.  If that is what you want to do, make a 3 hour miniseries, don't fuck with the audience for 10 hours to make 10-20 minutes of 'epic' show.

Jon and Sandra... next time Jon sees Sandra he better get in her face and tell her "you're either an idiot, or my enemy" for hiding the Vale troops. 

Oh, Sandra feeds Ramsey to his dogs.  I did not see that coming. This is totally not sarcasm.  No Sir.  Didn't see it coming. 

 

[Steelegrave]

2 hours ago, blckp said:

Jon Snow's almighty plot armor solves every problem

Except deep snow helps the wildings and northern armies and hurts cavalry.  I'm sure George will make what was a hinderence to Stannis be an an advantage to the North who actually remembered.

[Steelegrave]

2 minutes ago, Steelegrave said:

But nobody asked for your sycophantic explanation of nonsense.  These aren't questions.  They're gripes.  We come here to commiserate with like minded mourners not to be lectured to by our betters. 

Some of that is irony by the way.  Apparently I am supposed to clearly define when I'm being sarcastic.

[Steelegrave]

21 minutes ago, Grizzly Mormont said:

It wasn't medieval warfare; it was roman tactics with Macedonian technology set in the middle of a medieval world. So now I sincerely  doubt you're pretty well versed in anything but yapping. Cinematically, the battle was a lot of fun, but it made no sense in context of the story and the characters we (used to) love. 

Also its not medievel.  There are references that this world has been the same for 1000's of years, its pure fantasy.  In one story we get a little girl flying on a dragon, summoning a couple other dragons from a fortified dungeon, lighting fire to an armada, a hoard of nomadic barbarians laying waste to murderers in ornate masks and a badass eunic warrior slicing cleanly two throats with one swing and in the other story we get hyper-realistic mixed age warfare.  Its nonsense.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

Ramsay got way too much offense and looked strong even in defeat.

Could've cowered more.  Or at least earlier than when right before his dogs finally started biting him.

Yes, Jon eventually beating the shit out of him with his bare hands and Sansa feeding him to his own dogs was awesome.  But the problem is, when you've had a badguy character dunk on everybody as consistently and completely as they've had Ramsay do, his ultimate comeuppance needs to be total, and there's a lot of chickens that never quite came home to roost here.  I mean, he gets to deliberately miss a few times for Maximum Toying Around before killing Rickon.  And of course he gets the killshot on Wun Wun too (though that's fine, in isolation.  There's a Cumulative Fatigue factor with Ramsay's heel triumphs, though).  Even in his final conversation with Sansa he's the coolest cat in the room.

Shit.  Dany doesn't even get to dunk on her enemies as hard as Ramsay.  At least the Warlock and The Brothraki were able to capture her for a few minutes.  And Hizdhar's story about his dad at least made a fool out of her that one time.

I mean, he could've at least complained (and been upset) about the Manderlys no-showing on him [they were name-dropped as part of the coalition, after all!] and vowing to get them next or something.  At least some sense of Roose's warning coming true (else why bother to have it?), if you're not gonna have the Umbers or Karstarks or ANYBODY bail on him when fortune finally fails him [The Vale shows up on his six] and the man ruling through fear suddenly becomes not quite so fearful.

Could've maybe not had him dance tactical rings around Jon Snow and make Jon look like an idiot (a badass idiot, but an idiot nonetheless).  There's a fine line between making the hero look underdog (which is good) and making the hero look like a loser.  Jon got outsmarted and owned by Ramsay.  Ramsay basically won until The Vale showed up with a sneak attack, and even then he didn't panic, he coolly and calmly retreated.  You make your heel too edgy and badass and cool, and you run into the problem where people start rooting for him and making logical leaps to frame him as actually the goodguy (you know, what people have been doing with Littlefinger and Tywin for years).  At least the upside to the [very late] Vale save is that at least you can at least put a checkmark in Sansa's Win Column.  As long as they proceed the right way from here.  But as it sits right now, The Starks got their ass kicked and didn't so much take back their home in a heroic underdog performance so much as they got bailed out by Littlefinger, who gave it back to them.  And it's his army that now basically defends it, not theirs. Which, okay, at least Littlefinger is back to operating the way Littlefinger ought instead of the Spontaneous Dummy he had to become last season (does Teleportation cause brain damage?  Hopefully the Citadel is researching this important health issue).

But, as long as Sansa hoodwinks him out of control of said army, either because Dark Sansa was planning it all along or she flips out when she figures out that Littlefinger was stalling in the hopes that Jon Snow would die heroically right before he rode in, and decides on that basis that enough is finally enough, I can retract the above.

The banner is up, but The Starks haven't actually truly taken back their home yet.  Here's hoping they don't forget to have Jon and Sansa finish the job next week.

[Steelegrave]

45 minutes ago, Salad Days Saan said:

Ramsay got way too much offense and looked strong even in defeat.

Could've cowered more.  Or at least earlier than when right before his dogs finally started biting him.

Yes, Jon eventually beating the shit out of him with his bare hands and Sansa feeding him to his own dogs was awesome.  But the problem is, when you've had a badguy character dunk on everybody as consistently and completely as they've had Ramsay do, his ultimate comeuppance needs to be total, and there's a lot of chickens that never quite came home to roost here.  I mean, he gets to deliberately miss a few times for Maximum Toying Around before killing Rickon.  And of course he gets the killshot on Wun Wun too (though that's fine, in isolation.  There's a Cumulative Fatigue factor with Ramsay's heel triumphs, though).  Even in his final conversation with Sansa he's the coolest cat in the room.

Shit.  Dany doesn't even get to dunk on her enemies as hard as Ramsay.  At least the Warlock and The Brothraki were able to capture her for a few minutes.  And Hizdhar's story about his dad at least made a fool out of her that one time.

I mean, he could've at least complained (and been upset) about the Manderlys no-showing on him [they were name-dropped as part of the coalition, after all!] and vowing to get them next or something.  At least some sense of Roose's warning coming true (else why bother to have it?), if you're not gonna have the Umbers or Karstarks or ANYBODY bail on him when fortune finally fails him [The Vale shows up on his six] and the man ruling through fear suddenly becomes not quite so fearful.

Could've maybe not had him dance tactical rings around Jon Snow and make Jon look like an idiot (a badass idiot, but an idiot nonetheless).  There's a fine line between making the hero look underdog (which is good) and making the hero look like a loser.  Jon got outsmarted and owned by Ramsay.  Ramsay basically won until The Vale showed up with a sneak attack, and even then he didn't panic, he coolly and calmly retreated.  You make your heel too edgy and badass and cool, and you run into the problem where people start rooting for him and making logical leaps to frame him as actually the goodguy (you know, what people have been doing with Littlefinger and Tywin for years).  At least the upside to the [very late] Vale save is that at least you can at least put a checkmark in Sansa's Win Column.  As long as they proceed the right way from here.  But as it sits right now, The Starks got their ass kicked and didn't so much take back their home in a heroic underdog performance so much as they got bailed out by Littlefinger, who gave it back to them.  And it's his army that now basically defends it, not theirs. Which, okay, at least Littlefinger is back to operating the way Littlefinger ought instead of the Spontaneous Dummy he had to become last season (does Teleportation cause brain damage?  Hopefully the Citadel is researching this important health issue).

But, as long as Sansa hoodwinks him out of control of said army, either because Dark Sansa was planning it all along or she flips out when she figures out that Littlefinger was stalling in the hopes that Jon Snow would die heroically right before he rode in, and decides on that basis that enough is finally enough, I can retract the above.

The banner is up, but The Starks haven't actually truly taken back their home yet.  Here's hoping they don't forget to have Jon and Sansa finish the job next week.

How awesome and fucking easy would it have been for Small John Umber to scream "Who rules the North?! The Starks rule the North!  The North remembers.!" And turn on Ramsey's men.  Ramsey still could have fled.  We still could've had the awesome arrow catching scene (ok more sarcasm).