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(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion


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Already posted my nitpick in the rating thread but I'll take a shot here too.

The Battle of the Bastards though extremely well shot in a cinematic sense, seriously did not suspend my disbelief.

I'll take it with a grain of salt that both armies decided to meet at dawn in perfect battle formation, but then it gets ridiculous. Rickon is old enough to know how archery works, are you really not going to look back and see when he's shooting? Not run cross patterns? What about Ramsey? Pride or stupidity for not putting the arrow through Jon Snow who was only a few meters back from Rickon? Surely it was an easier shot.  Anything that makes you scream at the TV or just internally to yourself "WTF are you doing?" generally doesn't make for great entertainment. 

You can't tell the audience there are around 8,000 men participating in a battle, and then show a wide shot of the battle with only a fraction of the men shown. There's lots of foolery they could have done to make the numbers look authentic, or they could have just lowered the numbers for accuracy. Why inflate them so high?

Dead men somehow stacked in random mountains about 10 feet high, in the span of 3 minutes? How? And that would make this the bloodiest battle in the history of man, let alone Planetos. 

Davos keeping his archers in the back without firing a single volley, and then leading them straight into the death pit? Not once did he attempt to flank any action happening on the field. Also, if he just stayed where he was initially, he would have had crushing shots on the Karstarks and Umbers pulling up the rear.

The soldiers and WILDLINGS and A GIANT allow themselves to be surrounded by slow moving infantry in a shieldwall.. The shieldwall makes a pattern that would be self-defeating and impossible to keep formation with. Does Wun Wun being a giant keep him from the use of normal physics? Is he some sort of demented T-Rex? Or does he just not realize he can break the entire formation by literally jumping straight through it, or climbing out the back and rearing around on it?

The crossbowmen at Winterfell not felling Jon and Tormund the second they stepped in front of the keep, and then not shooting either of them in the back of the head even after Wun Wun goes down. 

All and All, they are nitpicks. I still gave the episode a 9 I just wanted to give a shoutout to all the stuff I considered ridiculous tonight. 

 

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2 minutes ago, LadyDoom said:

Why? Jon would have agreed Ramsay wouldn't fight the Vale, they could have still tricked him. but she didn't even TRUST him to tell him that info. I think it's still really annoying, she's accusing him and demanding things from him but she doesn't trust him. She wants him to fight for their home to give his life for it but withholds such valid information. 

I think Sansa used Jon and Rickon to get her revenge. might have worked out for her in the end, but I can't applaud her anyway. 

 

I'm not defending her decision. just pointing things out. I don't like the "show" Sansa. 

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5 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Ok. The show portrays a battle consistent with historic reports of a a similar battle. Not good enough for you because you think there weren't enough people in your estimation.

 

Any reasonable person knows where your head is. 

It's not only the amount of people.

Everyone knows where your head is at as you always come to these threads to debate when it says not to.

As the second part of my post states. What causes a mounding of bodies is people trying to push to the same spot. The cavalry being held at a line or a charge being held at a point and constantly dying with those behind going over the dead and then dying as well and so on so forth.

In the cavalry charge here both forces collide then disintegrate there is no point of one guy charging over the guy in front of him and so on. The whole camera angle on Jon shows multiple men dying  in a wide swath of area.

Hence the 20ft piles we see in a very narrow swath doesn't make any sense given the visual information we had before hand.

And yes at that point the numbers do make an issue. To make a certain size pile you would need enough men dying in one area. If there is a thousand men stretched out over that area with horse maybe you'd have enough; but that's a maybe. 

Mounds of bodies don't just happen because there is a battle; there has to be influencing factors.

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The Vale Remembers!!  Hooray!!

Is it just me or did Sansa look disappointed to see Jon come out of the battle and run towards Ramsay?

I'm really hating show Sansa right now.  How many people died because the battle plan didn't take into account the Vale forces?

Where was Ghost?

Where were the Manderleys?

 

 

 

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They did make Jon seems like an idiot.  Which su ks.  They did Wun Wun dirty.  And whoever the guy is that said they would be stupid and only use Wun Wun as regular infantry, was spot on.  My hat is off to you ser.  The only great commander left in Westeros is Tarly.  I can't wait to see how stupid they make him look.  Or worse, he does turn out to be brilliant after how dirty they did everyone else.

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3 minutes ago, LadyDoom said:

Worst thing is, all this pandering to appease feminists with Sansa story arc and she's nothing but LF puppet anyway. 

I really hate Sansa now. 

I always considered myself to be a feminist (though not a radical one;o) - but since seeing what D&D and their likes did to strong female characters over the last 2 seasons and think about female empowerment (the Dorne-women killer commando, boss ass bitch Sansa, Berserker-Brienne, the "fucking tits off other women" Asha) - I don't know if I still want to be a strong female myself ;o) Because (according to THIS show) it seems that all empowered women are just the horrible stereotype of angry, vengeful, mad harridans or bitches who have their periods.

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5 minutes ago, The Bear said:

Same with Dany. Painted as a girl power pro-feminist with agency but then checks with Tyrion. They're subverting their own message without realising it. They think rape as empowerment is a serious and useful trope so I'm hardly surprised they're so ham-fisted with their message.

The whole thing with the Vale knights and the orders to the troops so The Twin Towers to me. No doubt that was deliberate, the same way they deliberately referenced the Terminator last week.

pretty much!

I think the whole girl power message this season is just a response to all the hate they got from the rape scenes in the past. I don't think they really subscribe to it, they just give the people what they ask for regardless of story quality. and it's really showing

I don't want strong cliche women in the story, I want well developed characters above all, that's why there's no hope for me with this show. 

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Nitpicking?

Ughh dear lord.

How is it nitpicking to wonder what motivation Sansa has to hide information from one of her only living relatives that in turns gets a thousand men or more that would willingly fight for said relative and in turn her just so she can have the big hero moment at the end of the battle?

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2 minutes ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said:

It's not only the amount of people.

Everyone knows where your head is at as you always come to these threads to debate when it says not to.

As the second part of my post states. What causes a mounding of bodies is people trying to push to the same spot. The cavalry being held at a line or a charge being held at a point and constantly dying with those behind going over the dead and then dying as well and so on so forth.

In the cavalry charge here both forces collide then disintegrate there is no point of one guy charging over the guy in front of him and so on. The whole camera angle on Jon shows multiple men dying  in a wide swath of area.

Hence the 20ft piles we see in a very narrow swath doesn't make any sense given the visual information we had before hand.

I didn't debate. You debated. Someone asked a question about piles of bodies and I answered with a specific historical example of a battle with reported piles of bodies. Now you're nitpicking the specifics of the episode portraying exactly what happened in perhaps the most famous battle portraying a smaller medieval army, with limited cavalry, fighting against a much larger army with cavalry. 

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34 minutes ago, Lord Hanna said:

My god, that entire "circle around them and stay there" part was bad, first off....how bad are the commanders for not seeing these slow ass shield dudes get that advantage, did NOBODY SEE THAT SHIT HAPPENING?? Second off, was there hills there before the battle? If not, how the F did a mountain of dead bodies 10 feet high or more just appear out of no where? Third, Rickon....zig zag man, zig zag. Why run straight? Are you stupid? No? You say it's just dumb writing? Ah, gotcha. 

Rickon, dude! Your brother is coming for you. At least get behind one of those crosses!

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It is now nitpicking to wonder why given the visual information we are provided, the numbers of said forces and any basic curiousity to wonder where the plot heavy wall of bodies towering twenty feet into the air came from. 

I give up on you show apologist you've drinken the Milk of the poppy and okay just letting it be.

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41 minutes ago, DarkerStar said:

Can anyone explain to me why Sansa couldn't just tell Jon about the Valemen? It really makes no sense. If Jon had known to expect them they could have done a number of things different. Empowering Sansa just made me hate her more.

I just assumed she didn't tell him because she didn't know for sure if he would come. I suppose she could have told Jon he might come, or that she asked him to come. At the very least she should have told Jon to wait to see if he would come. 

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4 minutes ago, LulaMae Barnes said:

I always considered myself to be a feminist (though not a radical one;o) - but since seeing what D&D and their likes did to strong female characters over the last 2 seasons and think about female empowerment (the Dorne-women killer commando, boss ass bitch Sansa, Berserker-Brienne, the "fucking tits off other women" Asha) - I don't know if I still want to be a strong female myself ;o) Because (according to THIS show) it seems that all empowered women are just the horrible stereotype of angry, vengeful, mad harridans or bitches who have their periods.

I'm not a feminist, but as a woman I enjoy well developed female characters as much as the next one. I think the book has many different, butch, feminine, good, evil, flawed and layered and that's all part of their beauty, the show just spurts stereotypes of "badass" female characters like you just said, and they do it so blatantly it's really insulting to ones intelligence. So same here, I don't want to be a strong female by this show's standards. 

 

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