So what is Sansa's plan? (Possible spoilers)

[John Suburbs]

1 hour ago, Xarkar said:

I also am not convinced the LF is asking for marriage.  I dont think he is that stupid.

 

 

LF wants power everyone knows that.

 

When they  met in Moletown, the only thing LF seemed to want was to help her.  So maybe when she askes "what do you want" his answer is going to be to serve her?  

Eh, show Littlefinger is not as sharp as book Littlefinger.

Remember the scene in Season 2(?) when he confronts Cersei, who has three KG with her, and starts talking about the knowledge he has of her and how powerful it is? He almost got himself killed right there.

Then when he met up with Cat and, with Ned's bones right there, starts talking about how this is a opportunity for both him and her, and she almost guts him?

It seems show LF's ambitions can get the better of him at times.

[robasp2]

1 hour ago, illinifan said:

  Hide contents

If the KiTN spoilers are true, the Northern lords pledge fealty to Jon, not Sansa.  I suspect that LF wants the North in return for his help, Sansa agrees to give up her claim, and then plays him by supporting Jon.

 

This^

This is the only logical explanation I see for Sansa abandoning her hatred of Jon.

Because compared to LF, Jon is much better.

But will the houses agree to be led by a Bastard who would have lost if not for MightyFinger?

Or is Sansa playing Jon?

"No one can protect me. No one can protect anybody"- a contemptous statement she made. She sees jon very poorly here. She doesnt give two shits even after Jon acts brotherly. Maybe because of not listening to her. But yeah like you are going to listen to a vague advice & knowing you are probably going to die the next day.

[Nerevanin]

44 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Eh, show Littlefinger is not as sharp as book Littlefinger.

Remember the scene in Season 2(?) when he confronts Cersei, who has three KG with her, and starts talking about the knowledge he has of her and how powerful it is? He almost got himself killed right there.

Then when he met up with Cat and, with Ned's bones right there, starts talking about how this is a opportunity for both him and her, and she almost guts him?

It seems show LF's ambitions can get the better of him at times.

These are child's plays. But remember when he killed Lysa and tried to sell it as a suicide? And then the lords wanted to question Sansa about it and LF was like "oh sh..". Are we really supposed to believe that the master schemer who managed to set the war in motion while looking all innocent because it were the bad bad Lannisters who poisoned JonA, so that this master schemer was 100% sure everybody would just automatically trust him and didn't even try to talk to Sansa about it? Yeah, sure...

The "hey, Cat, there you have Ned's bones, come on, let's have sex" scene is still "gold" though.

[Nerevanin]

2 hours ago, dbunting said:

If she wanted Jon dead why would she have given him good advice that he chose to ignore? She told him to not do what Ramsey wanted, and he ignored her.

If she wanted Jon dead she would have had the Vale army wait until it was clear Jon and his army were all dead, then swooped in and killed the Boltons.

There is something there, don't get me wrong, I just am not sure what it is yet because the things we are seeing don't add up.

I am not saying I am 100% right of course.

She told him not to do what Ramsay wanted. Like, that's nice, but as Jon says, that's bit pointless advice because of course he would try to do something else than Ramsay would want / expect him to do. That was as good advice as when Mel said "don't lose".

Maybe she waited until the moment it was hopeless but there were still survivors because she wanted everybody to know that it was her (and LF) who saved the day? It's nice to later go all "I defeated Ramsay" but if there are no witnesses, people can believe it or not.

Of course, it's all just speculation.

[Masha]

4 minutes ago, robasp2 said:

This^

This is the only logical explanation I see for Sansa abandoning her hatred of Jon.

Because compared to LF, Jon is much better.

But will the houses agree to be led by a Bastard who would have lost if not for MightyFinger?

Or is Sansa playing Jon?

"No one can protect me. No one can protect anybody"- a contemptous statement she made. She sees jon very poorly here. She doesnt give two shits even after Jon acts brotherly. Maybe because of not listening to her. But yeah like you are going to listen to a vague advice & knowing you are probably going to die the next day.

Frankly speaking, however Sansa behaved it doesn't fall into "her hatred of Jon". It can be not fully trusting him, or thinking him not a very good strategist, or being upset with him with not taking into account her advice and opinion, and behaving like she is still a stupid little girl, but people can be upset with each other but still be not just a family but good friends with all above taking into account. 

 

 

[Dalia]

1 hour ago, robasp2 said:

This is the only logical explanation I see for Sansa abandoning her hatred of Jon.

She doesn't hate him. Period.

[KrakenSlayer]

It would be more interesting if Sansa is now a power-savvy woman who wants to rule the north in her father's name. There are hints to that end and the show is leaky enough to allow that to precipitate into something concrete even though there are many loopholes in that chain of thought. The show can do anything, as it doesnt seem to care for the integrity of storytelling 

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

Sansa doesnt like Jon and trust LF more. She is deceiving Jon.

That kiss on the forehead is really ouy of place. Cringeworthy.

[Myself656]

4 hours ago, dbunting said:

If she wanted Jon dead why would she have given him good advice that he chose to ignore? She told him to not do what Ramsey wanted, and he ignored her.

If she wanted Jon dead she would have had the Vale army wait until it was clear Jon and his army were all dead, then swooped in and killed the Boltons.

There is something there, don't get me wrong, I just am not sure what it is yet because the things we are seeing don't add up.

What IT is would be the same thing Jon has been suffering from. Both have been displaying classic symptoms of PTSD.

In Sansa's case she's having reactions to the fact that she has been betrayed so many times and that people who were supposed to save her failed to that now that she just reflexively goes into self-preservation mode whenever situations bring to situations to mind (I think her initial lie about where she got the info on the Blackfish was classic avoidance). Odds are that she's not even fully aware of WHY she's doing what she's doing.

That either of them can get out of bed in the morning is testament to their strength.

If not for Rickon's captivity, I think the healthiest thing for Jon and Sansa would have been to take the Wildlings in the ships Stannis used to bring them out of Hardhome (whatever did happen to Stannis' fleet?), sail as far south as south could go and find some tropical island to settle on.

[NedStark2013]

Maybe the 62 mormont survived and it was most wildlings didn't.

[LastManStanding]

8 hours ago, PirateVergo said:

She wants Littlefinger's help to kill/get rid of Jon so she can be queen in the north.

It's pretty obvious from what she's done in EP09 that her dream scenario would've been to have Jon Snow die in the battle so nobody could fight against her claim.

The fact that she didn't care for Rickon also gave it away.

She's power hungry and will do everything to be at the top.

It's not that she didn't care about Rickon, it is that she was a realist. She KNEW he was going to die and there was ZERO way to get him back alive. 

[LastManStanding]

4 hours ago, robasp2 said:

This^

This is the only logical explanation I see for Sansa abandoning her hatred of Jon.

Because compared to LF, Jon is much better.

But will the houses agree to be led by a Bastard who would have lost if not for MightyFinger?

Or is Sansa playing Jon?

"No one can protect me. No one can protect anybody"- a contemptous statement she made. She sees jon very poorly here. She doesnt give two shits even after Jon acts brotherly. Maybe because of not listening to her. But yeah like you are going to listen to a vague advice & knowing you are probably going to die the next day.

What is with some of you? She was pretty factual, not dismissive. The world is a dangerous place and she knows it. Jon has been pretty naive. She gave him solid advice and he still didn't listen and he fell for Ramsey's easy taunts. Of course she cares. 

[PirateVergo]

8 minutes ago, LastManStanding said:

It's not that she didn't care about Rickon, it is that she was a realist. She KNEW he was going to die and there was ZERO way to get him back alive. 

Then explain to me why she used Rickon as a reason for Jon to go to war wit Ramsay when it was first announced Ramsay had caught him?

She's an hypocrite, Rickon matters when it's about getting Jon to fight a war for her but suddenly he doesn't when the battle is about to start.

[LastManStanding]

Just now, PirateVergo said:

Then explain to me why she used Rickon as a reason for Jon to go to war wit Ramsay when it was first announced Ramsay had caught him?

She's an hypocrite, Rickon matters when it's about getting Jon to fight a war for her but suddenly he doesn't when the battle is about to start.

It's an honour thing. We have seen it time and time again. He had their brother (dead or alive, it does not matter in that regard), he stole their home, he destroyed all they knew and grew up with. It's revenge and reclaiming what is theirs. She also had time to think between those two conversations. Of course the first thought is "oh shit, he has our brother who I thought was dead anyway not long ago" and then "oh wait, he's going to kill him either way". Of course he matters, but you have to be realistic and clear headed. Sansa told Jon. If you go in knowing he will die, then you maintain focused. That isn't hypocritical, that is realistic and frankly smart. She has had to resign herself to thinking that everyone she loves is either dead or never to be seen again, and that is how she has survived.

[aryagonnakill#2]

What story are people watching that makes them think Sansa hates Jon?  Obviously the Vale forces showed up at the last moment, thats how t.v. works, like how bombs are defused with 1 second left.  If they showed up sooner it would've been a slaughter in the good guys favor and that is not good t.v..

[Scorpion92]

6 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

What story are people watching that makes them think Sansa hates Jon?  Obviously the Vale forces showed up at the last moment, thats how t.v. works, like how bombs are defused with 1 second left.  If they showed up sooner it would've been a slaughter in the good guys favor and that is not good t.v..

Exactly.

Sansa and Jon are saying goodbye to each other in the preview.

He stays as Lord of Winterfell and King in the North to prepare for White Walkers.

She goes south witn Vale army and Lord Royce (without Littlefinger who will be dead next episode, you shall see) to gain more support for House Stark now that they have retaken Winterfell and in rebellion state with Iron Throne once again. 

Jon deals with northern problems of House Stark, and Sansa deals with southern ones.

[aryagonnakill#2]

4 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said:

Exactly.

Sansa and Jon are saying goodbye to each other in the preview.

He stays as Lord of Winterfell and King in the North to prepare for White Walkers.

She goes south witn Vale army and Lord Royce (without Littlefinger who will be dead next episode, you shall see) to gain more support for House Stark now that they have retaken Winterfell and in rebellion state with Iron Throne once again. 

Jon deals with northern problems of House Stark, and Sansa deals with southern ones.

I could see Sansa intending to secure the Riverlands and get revenge on the Freys.

[Scorpion92]

1 minute ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I could see Sansa intending to secure the Riverlands and get revenge on the Freys.

I think revenge on the Freys is happening next episode, they would not include Freys cheering alongside Lannisters in the season finale if it did not include something massive (like certain assassin sneaking in and utilizing her new skills at poisoning).

I think next season Sansa will be involved in Vale storyline with Sweetrobin, and we shall witness mountain clans under some leader (it is Timmett in the books) taking back the Vale of Arryn, possibly with Tyrion's help. The husband and wife shall reunite.

[illinifan]

6 hours ago, robasp2 said:

This^

This is the only logical explanation I see for Sansa abandoning her hatred of Jon.

Because compared to LF, Jon is much better.

But will the houses agree to be led by a Bastard who would have lost if not for MightyFinger?

Or is Sansa playing Jon?

"No one can protect me. No one can protect anybody"- a contemptous statement she made. She sees jon very poorly here. She doesnt give two shits even after Jon acts brotherly. Maybe because of not listening to her. But yeah like you are going to listen to a vague advice & knowing you are probably going to die the next day.

Where are you getting that Sansa hates Jon?  She is angry that he doesn't listen to her, but he is her family.  And this is about Sansa taking ownership of her life rather than expecting a knight to save her.  It seems like they make up in the next episode.  Jon did save the Ramsay "kill" for Sansa.

And unless we are going to go with some silliness like Sansa and Jon are going to vie against each other for the North, the best guess I can come up with as to what happens based on the spoilers is that Sansa and Jon work together and trick LF.  

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

1 hour ago, LastManStanding said:

What is with some of you? She was pretty factual, not dismissive. The world is a dangerous place and she knows it. Jon has been pretty naive. She gave him solid advice and he still didn't listen and he fell for Ramsey's easy taunts. Of course she cares. 

Solid advice without any Actual information. How great of a strategist she is. This is shit. It's the same as "don't be afraid, the lord will be here with us" while there's a whole tsunami before you and you can't run away from it.