So what is Sansa's plan? (Possible spoilers)

[Trollosi]

On 6/20/2016 at 6:54 PM, robasp2 said:

1.So in next weeks preview we see Jon telling sansa that they have too many enemies and she should trust him. We see Sansa's eyes never meeting Jons.

It feels like she still does not trust him.

2. Little finger tells Sansa he did all this for a reason, and believed he thought Sansa knew it. It turned out he was wrong.

I'm guessing he wants to marry her. How will sansa react to this?

Pour in your thoughts....

Sansa will marry Jon and they will live happily ever after.

 The End 

[DarkerStar]

Sansa has no plans. She has no army. She has no money. Really she is now at Littlefinger's mercy.

[illinifan]

1 hour ago, Dalia said:

After seeing their emotional reunion, how can you come to this conclusion? Utter garbage. I'm starting to think I'm watching an entirely different show.

Yes.  They are family.  They love each other.  They might do silly things to each other and fight but Sansa is not going to kill Jon.  

Sheesh, Ned's ghost would come back and strangle them if they turned on each other.

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

7 hours ago, LastManStanding said:

How about the fact that she knew Ramsey. She knew what he would do and she knew exactly how Jon would react. Jon scoffed at the advice and he still fell for it. So yeah, she was right. Not shit at all. 

Tell me exactly what she told Jon as valid at all? Like did she tell him exactly what Ramsay would do? No she didn't. It's the same as my mom told me to be careful whenever I ride my bike. But what exactly I should do to stay safe she doesn't tell because she doesn't know how to ride herself. Lol

[illinifan]

1 hour ago, IrisBest said:

This is probably exactly what will happen which would be pretty narratively satisfying, even if the set up for the battle itself wasn't and didn't serve either Jon or Sansa's characterizations very well.

It's complicated since book-Jon was legitimized by Robb's will and even if the show forgot to include that, the show is still going to end up in the same place with the characters which is King Jon in the North. Show-Sansa appears to have the better claim but that's ultimately trumped by Robb's will even if it doesn't exist in the show lol. (although I wouldn't be surprised at this point if a will magically materialized on the show for this episode) 

To me, it is more satisfying for Sansa and Jon to play LF than Jon to become king via Chekov's will.  

The Battle for Winterfell did not show that either, especially not Jon, was fit to rule even though Jon emotionally rushing out to save Rickon was totally in character.  Outplaying LF makes up for that.  I also think that it sets up the R+L=J in universe.  LF has enough information to put things together; he was the one who told Sansa that Lyanna probably ran off with Rhaegar.  Meeting Jon might be the last piece he needs to put everything together.  So Jon and Sansa play LF but LF is able to rebound back.  And telling Jon that Ned was lying to him his whole life and BTW that he actually has the best claim to the Iron Throne is going to set Jon off.  

[Masha]

2 hours ago, illinifan said:

Since Sansa does have a better claim than Jon and has shown herself to be less of a dummy than him, it does make no sense for the North to support him and not her.  The only way I can see this happen is if Westros patriarchy rears it's ugly head which undermines the whole womenz power theme of the season or if Sansa and Jon team up to check LF.

 To me, Sansa and Jon teaming up is the only thing that makes sense. LF proposes a marriage alliance but Sansa drops her claim in support of her brother.  It would also show growth on the part of both.  Sansa does not withhold information from Jon and Jon, who knows he screwed up the battle, accepts Sansa's counsel.  

Thats why I am not sure about all those spoilers that claim.

Spoiler

That Jon will be crowned a King of the North and he would eagerly accept it while Sansa wholeheartedly supports this

I just can't believe that Jon would allow himself to accept it. He is not that kind of guy especially this season, where all his ambition is gone.  The only way I can see him accepting this, is Sansa pushing/forcing him towards it and I don't see her doing it unless LF messes around and she needs a way out.

6 hours ago, robasp2 said:

She couldnt convince Jon because Jon is not a person like that. "Leave Rickon, he is already dead"

He was just like his father. With even a slightest chance Jon would take it. He will NOT ever leave his brother to die. Nor would he let Sansa die if it was the other way round.

Sansa saw the bigger picture. Maybe a little heartless. If she confessed to Jon, the vale army could have attacked from multiple directions once Rickon was released. A chaos would follow and he could have been saved. {Just my idea. There may be better ways}

But leaving your brother to die even if there was a slim chance is not Jons way. And when asked to give a plan, she just says

"I dont know. Just dont do what he wants you to do". Vague advice was not useful. A clear advice that LF was coming ir atleast more information would have been a start.

Moreover, it was not Jon but Davos who charged.

 I can see Sansa be exasperated with Jon, but I don't think she would want to change this because these quality of his is what remind her of her father and childhood. So she would be a manipulator and he would be the fighter, together they would make a great team.

[NedStark2013]

People give sansa too much thinking credit. She has always been about her but Jon didn't hug her she leaped into his arms when she saw him in episode 4

[Magica de Hex]

2 hours ago, Dalia said:

After seeing their emotional reunion, how can you come to this conclusion? Utter garbage. I'm starting to think I'm watching an entirely different show.

I completely agree! 

I really cannot see that Sansa would betray Jon after all that she has been through. If there is one thing she must surely have learnt now it is that the only people she can truly trust is her family. Jon would be the last person to use her in his games or schemes - because he doesn't do that. I truly hope that in the next episode we won't have to see something as disappointing as Sansa marrying LF or scheming against Jon. It would however work out nicely if she, as someone suggested above, eventually would marry Robin or someone else from the Vale to seal the most badass cavalry in Westeros to her/Jon. I would like to see independent Sansa not having to seal another marriage pact but then again it's not usually how the Westeros politics work - and she knows this.

 

[bb1180]

Sansa's whole plan revolved around revenge on Ramsay,  and in that context,  she didn't trust Jon's judgement.  I don't think she actually wants to hold anything against Jon or to hurt him in any way,  but LF did successfully plant a seed of doubt in her mind back in Mole's Town and she's been acting defensively toward Jon ever since.   

As I said in a previous thread,  with Winterfell retaken and with Littlefinger now seeking his price for his role,  I think Sansa is going to be forced to make a choice in this finale.  Does she support Littlefinger or does she support Jon?  She made the wrong choice between ambition and family once before.  Hopefully she makes the right one this time.  

[Dalia]

5 hours ago, NedStark2013 said:

People give sansa too much thinking credit. She has always been about her but Jon didn't hug her she leaped into his arms when she saw him in episode 4

Sure, that's what happened.

[ErasmusF]

Jon was like his father, Rhaegar, who marched into battle against a man who was way out of his league. 

[iceheart91]

4 hours ago, PirateVergo said:

Sansa would let Littlefinger kill Jon if it mean she can be ruler of the north and live in peace.

She doesn't give a damn about her lowborn bastard brother who's nothing but an annoyance to her due to him being a male and battle proven.

You have got to be joking. Why are there so many people who think that Sansa wants Jon dead and/or out of the way? If she didn't care about him, she wouldn't have warned him about how unpredictable Ramsay was. Ramsay COULD have beaten Jon, but ultimately, he didn't, and I'd like to think part of that was because he was warned by his sister.

[Hos the Hostage]

Sansa could have done a lot better or a lot worse, but I just want to point out that no cost was too high when it was Winterfell that they were fighting for. All I could think of was Jon's quote from ASOS

Quote

 

It was Winterfell that the king was speaking of, and Winterfell was not to be lightly refused.

 

Sansa, having spent years as a hostage or a refugee, values her home higher than anything else.

[NedStark2013]

I think Mel would strangle sansa in her sleep if Jon don't burn her ass for shireen first if Mel feels sansa is a life risk to her lord.

[Knight of the Turnip Tree]

Semi-random thoughts, because I'm having trouble forming a coherent thought pattern. Sorry, tired.

Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, in this male-dominated society, means she must have an heir, which means she must marry again, which means basically giving control of the North to her husband. I don't think she will entertain that. I don't think Lyanna Mormont or Wyman Manderly or whoever will entertain that.

At this point, Sansa has married a Lannister and a Bolton, is in league with Littlefinger, and kept war planning information regarding the Vale to herself. If Lyanna Mormont and Lord Glover are any indication, none of them would be inclined to see her in charge of the North. Northern lords seem rather harsh -- I'm not sure they care much for mitigating circumstances.

Supporting Jon as Lord of Winterfell / King in the North is a way to cut the legs of Baelish's plans out from under him before he can even start running. Sansa would no longer be the key to the north, and Baelish can't exactly take her back to Harrenhal as his wife without getting a Lannister army at his doorstep.

Jon becoming the leader does pose a bit of a sticky situation regarding the Vale, though. They came for Sansa. If she's not in charge, what then? Perhaps she can give them Baelish so they can sate themselves on vengeance? Still pondering this one.

Can Sansa hide the fact she knew about the Vale forces? Can Baelish keep hiding he was the one who took Sansa north? Wondering about these as well.

[Hos the Hostage]

2 hours ago, Knight of the Turnip Tree said:

Jon becoming the leader does pose a bit of a sticky situation regarding the Vale, though. They came for Sansa. If she's not in charge, what then? Perhaps she can give them Baelish so they can sate themselves on vengeance? Still pondering this one.

Can Sansa hide the fact she knew about the Vale forces? Can Baelish keep hiding he was the one who took Sansa north? Wondering about these as well.

From Vale people's point of view, (esp. Yohn Royce and Sweetrobin): The Vale came to save Sansa from the Boltons. They achieved that. Robin sent his army to rescue Sansa because she was his cousin. Not because they agreed upon a marriage pact, or because someone said he would be lord of North and the Vale. Yohn Royce wanted Sansa's safety because she is Ned Stark's daughter. Royce will not have too much problems with Ned's bastard son being lord of Winterfell. Sansa as Lady of Winterfell and of Vale will be agreeable for Vale people, also it justifies their joining the battle for Winterfell.

From the Lannister point of view, Vale troops went to Winterfell to destroy the rebels, Boltons. LF was supposed to win the war, and he would become Warden of the North. That was Cersei's promise to LF. Clearly neither Northmen nor Vale men will want this - they are anti-Lannister (North officially and Vale unofficially but both Kingdoms are really against the Lannister rule).

Since Cersei is not in a position of power, and the royal army won't survive  a march to North(winter has come!) or to Vale (Eyrie is impregnable as far as Iron Throne's army is concerned. Tyrion or Dany will have a chance conquering it, but not Jaime or the Tyrells), LF really need not worry about actual threats from Iron Throne. At any rate, he will come up with some story (which might be refuted by Qyburn) as to how the Starks took Winterfell, or how Sansa turned the Vale knights by influencing Yohn Royce. So LF is safe in everyone's eye, and Royce and the Starks get all the blame. If LF marries Sansa, then Cersei will know for sure he is betraying the crown. So I think LF will wait till Cersei is out of power to actually carry out his plans with Sansa. Right now he thinks it will be soon, since things are going bad for Cersei at KL.

 

 

[robasp2]

14 hours ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

Tell me exactly what she told Jon as valid at all? Like did she tell him exactly what Ramsay would do? No she didn't. It's the same as my mom told me to be careful whenever I ride my bike. But what exactly I should do to stay safe she doesn't tell because she doesn't know how to ride herself. Lol

This^  So true..

And the "Told you so. You should have listened to me".

Can only be answred by "What exactly of value did you tell me?"

[tinka10]

On 21/06/2016 at 1:23 AM, Nerevanin said:

 So you think that her smile faded away because she realized that Jon is alive? That's interesting. I haven't thought about it before. I simply assumed that she wasn't happy that Ramsay might escape. But if your opinion is right, it might expain why the Vale army didn't come earlier (aside from simply being too far). Sansa waited as long as posible to be sure that Jon is dead. Too bad that Jon is arrow-proof, sword-proof and feet-proof.

I had the same impression during that shot. She looked very smug until she saw Jon. "Oh, you're still alive?" Wanting Winterfell for herself would explain why she refused to tell him about the Vale.

[tinka10]

On 21/06/2016 at 1:46 AM, dbunting said:

If she wanted Jon dead why would she have given him good advice that he chose to ignore? She told him to not do what Ramsey wanted, and he ignored her.

If she wanted Jon dead she would have had the Vale army wait until it was clear Jon and his army were all dead, then swooped in and killed the Boltons.

I wouldn't call that good advice at all. She gave him nothing he could work with. And once again, she didn't tell him about reaching out to the Vale, where she could have convinced him to hold off marching for an hour or two. And when she did arrive Jon and his army were pretty much wiped out.

Also, that look she had on her face when she saw Jon alive and heading after Ramsey (Jon, Gimli, and Legolas being the focal point of the shot). She didn't look happy.

This could all be nothing, of course, we'll have to wait until next week. I can definitely see how Sansa may want him out of the way though.

[Lord Lannister]

Sansa may have a hard time getting the Northern lords to back her play for a multitude of reasons.

As Lyanna Mormont pointed out, her past marriages are an albatross around her neck. Is it Lady Lannister or Lady Bolton? She very well could be seen as damaged goods by Westerosi standards. The few Northern houses that did rally to the North did so more because of Jon than Sansa. At least this is a safe guess, as she didn't take credit for the Hornwoods or that other house whose name I keep forgetting. Given she was going out of her way to criticize Jon for every little thing, had she been responsible for them joining up she would've bragged about it I expect. Her association with Littlefinger isn't going to endear her to any of the lords. Especially if anyone starts questioning why she never mentioned anything about the Vale's forces in the prebattle planning. The houses that fought and died would be enraged at this I imagine.

If all the Northern lords started shouting the King in the North and laid their swords at Jon's feet, what exactly is she going to do about it?