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Martin Rheaume

Sansa is obnoxious

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She seriously has a lot of nerve complaining about not being involved in the planning of the battle. She first refused the knights of the Vale without telling anyone. Then, she lets them plan the whole battle without essential information that she's withholding, and complains that they won't listen to her. I guarantee if she had told them she had access to thousands knights, they would have taken her very seriously

 

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42 minutes ago, Martin Rheaume said:

She seriously has a lot of nerve complaining about not being involved in the planning of the battle. She first refused the knights of the Vale without telling anyone. Then, she lets them plan the whole battle without essential information that she's withholding, and complains that they won't listen to her. I guarantee if she had told them she had access to thousands knights, they would have taken her very seriously

 

Yea that really angered me.

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I am so glad I'm not the only one annoyed with her.

Poor Jon. All he wanted was a holiday.

 

 

All of this could have been avoided if she had a sassy gay friend.

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Yeah, because everybody always takes Sansa so seriously. If she'd just opened up her big fat mouth a little wider, surely Jon would have listened to, "I've got a couple thousand knights in the Vale who'll help us! I don't know when they'll show up, but if we just sit around and wait, they'll come. I know they will. And surely when Ramsay sees this happening and knows we now outnumber his forces, he won't hid out in Winterfell so we have to deal with a never-ending siege."

By the old gods and the new, the Sansa hate is real.

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2 hours ago, Martin Rheaume said:

She seriously has a lot of nerve complaining about not being involved in the planning of the battle. She first refused the knights of the Vale without telling anyone. Then, she lets them plan the whole battle without essential information that she's withholding, and complains that they won't listen to her. I guarantee if she had told them she had access to thousands knights, they would have taken her very seriously

 

These are all valid points. I'm sure Jon would have waited if Sansa would have told him. Not trusting Jon doesn't make any sense other then to build tension during the battle.

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7 minutes ago, Sand11751 said:

Yeah, because everybody always takes Sansa so seriously. If she'd just opened up her big fat mouth a little wider, surely Jon would have listened to, "I've got a couple thousand knights in the Vale who'll help us! I don't know when they'll show up, but if we just sit around and wait, they'll come. I know they will. And surely when Ramsay sees this happening and knows we now outnumber his forces, he won't hid out in Winterfell so we have to deal with a never-ending siege."

By the old gods and the new, the Sansa hate is real.

I don't hate Sansa. I found the end to be satisfying, and I want her to be successful, but to wine about not being included in the conversation when she's withholding extremely important information is disingenuous. Are you suggesting that if she had told them that she had been offered the Vale army that they would have just dismissed her? That doesn't make any sense at all. I don't know what they would have done with that info, but it is a game changer, and it wouldn't have been ignored. If she wanted to be included in the conversation, all she had to do was speak up.

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I have to be honest Sansa is closely following Dany on my shit list both in the books and in the show. Both of them come across as dumb and annoying, Dany is safe until she arrives in Westeros but Sansa now has no plot armour from what I can tell, so hopefully she is killed off soon.

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Really? Based on the two-second exchange she had with Jon last episode about House Cerwyn, he didn't seem particularly interested in her opinion. He insists  on fighting now - was Jon really going to wait for the Vale knights when he commented at the war council that if Ramsay was smart, he would have waited him out in Winterfell? Jon then actually goes on to do the very darn thing Sansa says not to do; let Ramsay goad him into a stupid decision that could have reasonably cost his life and ultimately the battle.

All I've ever seen of Sansa is that she's dismissed as a stupid or silly girl, and with ample merit, she's lived up to that portrayal. She's been the tool of others since King's Landing. If she's decided she's had enough of that now, bravo for her for not playing the pawn all the time. 

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Yea, Sansa may seem a little mean spirited now - but at least she is finally interesting. I much prefer post Ramsay trauma Sansa to early season Sansa or book Sansa because whatever she is, she is no longer totally passive and boring.

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7 minutes ago, Sand11751 said:

Really? Based on the two-second exchange she had with Jon last episode about House Cerwyn, he didn't seem particularly interested in her opinion. He insists  on fighting now - was Jon really going to wait for the Vale knights when he commented at the war council that if Ramsay was smart, he would have waited him out in Winterfell? Jon then actually goes on to do the very darn thing Sansa says not to do; let Ramsay goad him into a stupid decision that could have reasonably cost his life and ultimately the battle.

All I've ever seen of Sansa is that she's dismissed as a stupid or silly girl, and with ample merit, she's lived up to that portrayal. She's been the tool of others since King's Landing. If she's decided she's had enough of that now, bravo for her for not playing the pawn all the time. 

House Cerwyn wasn't worth waiting on. 10000 Valemen are.

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1 minute ago, ummester said:

Yea, Sansa may seem a little mean spirited now - but at least she is finally interesting. I much prefer post Ramsay trauma Sansa to early season Sansa or book Sansa because whatever she is, she is no longer totally passive and boring.

Good point. Sansa becomes unpredictable now. Will she marry LF or just use him? Will she jlin with Jon as he tries to rally the north against he WW? She has no experience fighting them so she may not understand the threat. Who has the claim to Winterfell now? didn't Rob make Jon his heir ? 

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I'm kind of digging the tension here.  From a show-only perspective, both characters have reasons to feel they are in the right (pro-Jon = Sansa withholding info, Sansa didn't appear to care about their brother; pro-Sansa = Jon was on a suicide mission without her resources getting the KotV, she was right that Rickon was already dead).  I'm actually quite curious how they will determine who will rule in Winterfell as they are the only presumed living Starks in the North (and Jon's not even a Stark but a Snow, and Sansa a Bolton).  I'd like to see Jon installed as KitN while Sansa and Littlefinger ride south with the KotV to kick some Frey ass and recruit for the wars to come.  Plus it allows Jon to maybe find out about LF after he's left, presenting an interesting conundrum of how will he get this info to Sansa and would he insist on taking out LF when LF is pretty much the only reason that he's alive right now.

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Can we mention how she acted with the whole rickon thing. Not only did she have him for dead before the battle, his body was next to her after the battle and she had no reaction to it

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This holding out with the Vale army, so the show could do a Littlefinger Ex Machina was shit.

However her point about Rickon not being returned to them, and Ramsay setting a trap for Jon, proved to be... sort of correct?

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I really don't like what was done with Sansa this season. She really just seems to be actively undermining Jon for her own benefit. She's gone out of her way in a number of episodes to point out Jon's not a Stark but she is, she argues with and criticizes everything he does and she literally holds back knowledge of the Vale army to the point of letting Jon and most of his supporters nearly die. I'm not sure if they're just doing this on purpose to turn Sansa onto a darker arc or if it's just poor characterization by the show writers.

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I like this sansa. She has come to terms that trusting anyone will leave her being fucked over... literally. So now she has a thick skin, and if no one trusts her, she will do it herself. Like her brother saying they will attack now. And sansa warning him that their army is too small. She did what SHE had to do. Also she has no sympathy for anyone even when she told her own brother that "no one can protect her". She is becoming the political version of Arya.

I just want to see how she handles Littlefinger next episode. Since she knows how to play this game now. Also knowing that the Lannisters will be coming her way soon.

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I do not think sansa knew she would go get the vale to help until after the convo with jon, she left that exchange not knowing how she could help to make sure ramsey died, she did not want to use LF help because she knows he is full of it..but wanted winterfell back and ramsey dead much more then she had dislike for LF.  She has had to grow up a great deal over the past couple seasons, and is finally coming into her own.

Also with the mother of dragons obviously liking the idea of queens instead of kings..I think sansa and arya are the only chance the starks have of keeping the north...unless of course, she develops a thing for jon, which I would personally love to see

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We've had to deal with weak, scared, pathetic Sansa for such a long time on this show. 

I much prefer this Sansa, faults and all. 

Two things that bothered me though:

1 - Why not just tell Jon that she had the Knights of the Vale? Surely that would have changed his battle planning? If he knew that the Knights were coming why not inform Jon so he could adjust his plans for an ambush, or even delay the start of battle until they showed up? 

2 - Small continuity error, but how does Sansa know how hungry Ramsey's hounds are? Ramsey only tells Team Jon about his hounds when Sansa leaves the standoff after her whole "you are going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton". 

 

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24 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

1 - Why not just tell Jon that she had the Knights of the Vale? Surely that would have changed his battle planning? If he knew that the Knights were coming why not inform Jon so he could adjust his plans for an ambush, or even delay the start of battle until they showed up? 

2 - Small continuity error, but how does Sansa know how hungry Ramsey's hounds are? Ramsey only tells Team Jon about his hounds when Sansa leaves the standoff after her whole "you are going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton". 

 

1. She didn't even know they were coming. What was she supposed to do, get Jon's hopes up and risk him being over confident? She had no way of knowing until the last minute. And it's not like she trusts Littlefinger. I don't understand why NO ONE sees this.

2. Bad writing. Or maybe they told her that she said that when she had the idea of locking him with the hounds.

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