Woman of War Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Risto, maybe you are right or not and overly emotional hatred for fictional characters is always a bit ridiculous. I will certainly not count such posts and honor them with my attention, neither for Dany nor for Tyrion nor Sansa. Back on track, I repeat parts of my former post: If Martin intends something else with the Sansa character, like her being the positive and emphatic bringer of peace for all - then the showmakers have written themselves into a corner. She is established as political failure now, in the eye of some fans as even worse. Only I do not believe any longer that this is Martin's intention. Sansa has started a darker development for very reliable reasons and without being really aware: She was successful in her own eyes, the rest is collateral damage. Will she again unlearn this method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 45 minutes ago, Woman of War said: Risto, maybe you are right or not and overly emotional hatred for fictional characters is always a bit ridiculous. So is overly emotional devotion. Not to mention the downright creepy kind of obsession with a fictional character displayed by... aherm... some people. Anyway, show Sansa is dumb no matter what the writers are trying to do with her. She had better and very obvious lines of action whether she's pure evil, all good, or anywhere in the middle. And the only reason is it takes an intelligent writer to write intelligent characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 9 hours ago, Risto said: So calling her "Lannister Bolton bitch" is not hate? There is a legitimate question but most discussion don't talk too much about it... Instead, "she killed Rickon", "she was displeased Jon survived"... Where did I call her that? This is really annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadedNorwegian Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Just posting this video here, very good summary of the episode! The most interesting part is the last about sansa, which he got spot on. Sansa is becoming a sadistich maniac like Ramsay was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 2 hours ago, LordBloodraven said: Where did I call her that? This is really annoying I didn't say you did. I was just making general observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 A few erratic voices have been tasteless, that's all. This has happened with other characters just as much. So many haters have wanted Tyrion the vicious imp or Dany the madwoman to become dragon barbecue. If there always were an uproar because of some pubertarian kids who happen to dislike one character for whatever personal reason....... But it is thoroughly dishonest to disqualify valid and maybe negative character evaluation as hate, that would be no more than a method of quenching a debate by building a strawman killer argument......... ........instead of realizing that the Sansa character has been sent on a highly problematic road by the show, and I guess there the story development is only ahead of Martin's version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoreOrLess Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 4 hours ago, Woman of War said: Only I do not believe any longer that this is Martin's intention. Sansa has started a darker development for very reliable reasons and without being really aware: She was successful in her own eyes, the rest is collateral damage. Will she again unlearn this method? This is my guess as well, I suspect that D&D know of this direction but thought pushing her into the Bolton plot would allow them to provide more specific and just as importantly short term build up for this. I would say this is a common issue on the show generally, looking to provide reminders to plot points closer to the time rather than depending on viewers having long memories. I suspect its not going to be THAT dark a version of Sansa, more conflicted enough to be at odds with other characters. The decision not to bring in Littlefinger for example was I'd argue not purely selfish but realising that doing so would involve them more directly in his political ambitions that she'd already fallen foul in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 14 minutes ago, Woman of War said: But it is thoroughly dishonest to disqualify valid and maybe negative character evaluation as hate, that would be no more than a method of quenching a debate by building a strawman killer argument......... As I have said, there is a lot to criticize with this iteration of Sansa and her choices, but at the same time, we should not behave as if the problematic posts don't exist. I don't think those posts disqualify the valid criticism, they just make it a bit harder to swallow, so to speak. 16 minutes ago, Woman of War said: ........instead of realizing that the Sansa character has been sent on a highly problematic road by the show, and I guess there the story development is only ahead of Martin's version. The thing is that the two versions of Sansa have been truly different even when they were on the same place at the same time both in books and TV. The show loves its femme fatales and the problem with Sansa is that she was never one. I would say that the road of moral ambiguity is ahead of her, but it is part of the process of growing up (and Martin's saga is about growing up in many ways) and I see it as just one of the many Stark kids' parallels where they will also go through a lot of difficult choices until the end. That said, do I see Sansa making some right or wrong, both morally and pragmatically, choices? Of course. But, it is a long way from making her into what D&D transformed the character into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 On 6/24/2016 at 10:08 AM, Facebookless Man said: So is overly emotional devotion. Not to mention the downright creepy kind of obsession with a fictional character displayed by... aherm... some people. Anyway, show Sansa is dumb no matter what the writers are trying to do with her. She had better and very obvious lines of action whether she's pure evil, all good, or anywhere in the middle. And the only reason is it takes an intelligent writer to write intelligent characters. I agree that the excessive love of the character shown by some is also scary. On 6/24/2016 at 1:37 PM, Woman of War said: A few erratic voices have been tasteless, that's all. This has happened with other characters just as much. So many haters have wanted Tyrion the vicious imp or Dany the madwoman to become dragon barbecue. If there always were an uproar because of some pubertarian kids who happen to dislike one character for whatever personal reason....... But it is thoroughly dishonest to disqualify valid and maybe negative character evaluation as hate, that would be no more than a method of quenching a debate by building a strawman killer argument......... ........instead of realizing that the Sansa character has been sent on a highly problematic road by the show, and I guess there the story development is only ahead of Martin's version. Sansa's storyline is indeed problematic. As I have watched this season, I have slowly come to realize that the only part of the books' northern storyline that the show has kept is Ramsey raping his wife. I wasn't offended last year, but I think they've manage to offend me this year. I watched the show over the last nine days since my viewing situation has changed. Now that I am completely caught up, I still think Sansa's behavior is highly questionable. BUT, it may just be the show's usual crappy writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaysman Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 The whole situation could have been done better. It is unfortunate that show Jon is not like book Jon who would have wiped the field with Ramsay Bolton. Book Jon also would not have fallen for Ramsay's "trap". Being how book Jon stole Gilly's baby to save Mance's without blinking an eye. Then pretty much told her it was happening with or without her. That is the Jon that needed to be on the show that episode. That Jon would not have wiped out his battle plan with a Leeroy Jenkins!! moment. As for Sansa contributing I believe her advice was He does not fall for traps he lays traps, don't do what he(Ramsay) wants you to do, try to rally more Houses, and let us not forget I know nothing about battles. Other than rally more Houses how was any of it good tactical advice instead of vague warnings? As for Sansa not telling Jon about the Vale...unless she received confirmation in short order it would not have mattered. The possibility of a large force coming to your aid is not enough to stop a campaign. Sansa had plent of oppurtunity to let everyone know about the Vale and yet did not. As for Jon, well he fucked up noone can deny that. He repeatedly told Sansa that they needed to fight before the weather turned, he told her that they went to every house that would have them and that they were lucky to have as many men as they did. As a commander Jon did everything right with the INFORMATION he had. Then he went on a suicide run. Me personally I believe there is plenty of blame to go around on this battle. Then again I would have had an ambush waiting for Ramsay at the parley spot and killed that bastard and his minions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther2000 Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 All in all, Sansa is Kat's daughter. However, over the past 5 years she has had Cersei & LittleFinger as her teachers. SHOW: she doesn't trust anyone and that includes Jon( who has never done anything wrong toward her) She is trying her hand at playing the Game. She is looking out for herself( I don't blame her) but, I do think that in the end it will come back to bite her in the ass. BOOK: samething, I thini what happen on the show may be closer to what may go down with Harry the Heir( hope not). I do like that in the Books she does start to understand how Jon felft all those years growing as a Bastard. I would say from Sansa's mother all the way to FL & Cersei, she has had awful teachers. Kat' did Sansa no favors by thinking that her looks was all she needed to snare a high level husband/prince. Looks, Needlepoint, manners, ect....... And with Cersei, also Using her looks & sex to get what wants. With LittleFinger, I think that he may have been the best teacher she has. He is teaching her more than just using Woman parts to get what she wants of needs. He is teaching her how to use all the other parts that go with it. Lying, cheat, how to use people, read others, etc....... I know in this universe, women are just tools to be used by men in other to further their bloodline. Howere, there are women who have not & will not settle for being used in such a way. #1Araya, Lady Olena( LOVE HER), Lyanna Mormont and her mother, Margery( to a certain extent), all of the Freek Folk Women( LOVE them). Anyways, Sansa is the Typical, predictable, pretty rich girl who thinks that the she is above so many. However, in the end she has to learn the hardway that it isn't all about her. I won't even get started on why she lied & kept lying to Jon about the Vale. HOWEVER, it made sense. Because if Jon showed up with the Vale Army, Ramsey would have never come out of Winterfell. Yes his men were the bait, but unlike others Jon was out there being used as bait himself. His men died for him, but he was right there along side of them. I think this is why what ever group with fights for and with end up making HIM the leader, birth right or not. He puts it out there for all to see, The Free Folk, The Knights Watch, and now The North( until Bran returns, I hope). Sansa is a Pawn of what ever man she marries, that is why I think they over looked her on the show. Not to mention I do think that Jon will become KOTN in the books also. I like Sansa and I don't like Sansa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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