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Melisandre's Fate *SPOILERS*


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What i'v always found interestign about mel is that she seemingly receives different visions  or interprets the visions differently than most of the other red priests we encounter in Essos. They all look to Dany as the savior, whereas Mel never did. Or at least not that we know of.

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1 hour ago, Masha said:

She didn't JUST followed her kings orders. She kept insisting on burning Shireen again and again and promising victory to Stannis, till Stannis was desperate enough to follow her advice. She was an instigator of the act and she pushed on till she actually got to do it. Stannis didn't just came up with an idea of burning his beloved daughter and heir out of nowhere and Mel just "followed orders". If Mel said - burn anyone else and here is victory, he would do it too in a heartbeat.

True, but the thing is, Jon knows Mel has powers. If Stannis and Mel thought burning Shireen was what was needed for the ultimate victory, he might agree it was a horrible sacrifice, but one worth making.

I don't know, I'm just not seeing where burning a little girl with a greater cause in mind is something Jon would deem is something that is worthy of execution.

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9 minutes ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

True, but the thing is, Jon knows Mel has powers. If Stannis and Mel thought burning Shireen was what was needed for the ultimate victory, he might agree it was a horrible sacrifice, but one worth making.

I don't know, I'm just not seeing where burning a little girl with a greater cause in mind is something Jon would deem is something that is worthy of execution.

This right here is the excuse of every massmurderer, cult leader, psychopath, terrorist and any other loon out to do utter evil.

And Mel could have decided to go against her king's orders or you know, not mention the idea at all.

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4 minutes ago, wolfinho said:

All Martin's work is about showing the greater cause is sux, the war is sux, religions are sux etc.

Yep and that lords and kings will use any excuse to serve their own agenda, even lying to themselves to believe they are right.

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Just now, Red Tiger said:

Yep and that lords and kings will use any excuse to serve their own agenda, even lying to themselves to believe they are right.

As it is with nowadays politicians.

Concerning Mel's fate,  I don't know nor what I want. She has a serious part of responsability for Shireen's death. Personally, I put much more blame on Stannis for that, although Mel's influence is undeniable. Also, I don't think its fair to put a whole blame on her and take her head because the lack of Stannis and Selyse. And that was Stannis's order after all, so how to jugde her if Stannis who proclaimed himself a King and was Shireen's father, which is more important, didn't have any feeling ,  when he had ordered  burning of his own daughter . There's no cause, there's no battle, there's no victory, there's no god nor lord, there's nothing which would make me do such a thing to my child. 

To get simple, this is a show, and honestly I don't expect justice demonstration towards Mel. She is maybe needed for further story, maybe not, but just don't see her dyind. Idk maybe I'm wrong.

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1 hour ago, Red Tiger said:

This right here is the excuse of every massmurderer, cult leader, psychopath, terrorist and any other loon out to do utter evil.

And Mel could have decided to go against her king's orders or you know, not mention the idea at all.

I know it, but that seems to be the logic of a lot of people, including military minds. Sacrifice the one to save the many. Jon, being a military minded guy, might see the logic of it.

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On 20/06/2016 at 4:53 PM, ErasmusF said:

She's not wrong about Stannis. He was an essential step in getting to Jon. He was needed to bail Jon out when the Wildlings attacked. 

What does being wrong means to you? Mel telling Stannis he is Azor Ahai, then he's not, to me that is exactly what being wrong means...

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On 6/20/2016 at 1:58 PM, Daemos said:

Mel is not responsible for the will and wishes of Stannis and his wife. She is merely an interpreter of and sometime facilitator of the Lord of Light.

Besides, she took Shireen from Davos, but she gave Jon. I'd say her debt is settled if she had one in this regard.

She's the one who recommended the girl be burned lol.  

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2 minutes ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

I know it, but that seems to be the logic of a lot of people, including military minds. Sacrifice the one to save the many. Jon, being a military minded guy, might see the logic of it.

Coincidentally enough, this scenario was near exactly replicated in a recent movie: Eye in the Sky. The entire movie is based around a decision to make a drone strike on a target or not. The target is somebody readying for a suicide bombing, but if they hit him they also likely take out a nearby girl who is selling bread. If they don't make the strike, the bomber will likely kill dozens. Generals, lawyers, attaches, ministers, secretaries of state and even heads of state are dragged into this decision...

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On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 11:20 AM, Drogo_1 said:

I don't think Mel is long for this world. The show brilliantly led Davos to the truth about Shireen. Obviously he is going to bring that up in ep 10. I have a gut feeling that Jon will judge her guilty and order her death. This is where I put my tin foil on. I think she will then willingly play the part of Nissa Nissa and allow Jon to kill her with Longclaw/thereby changing it to
Lightbringer. At this point Dondarion and Thoros show up. Thoros takes Mel's place as the new head priest/drinker.

Daenerys is lightbringer. It is a metaphorical sword, not a physical one. Lightbringer is created when Azor Ahai tempers his sword with his wife's blood and her soul is infused with the blade. It is a metaphor for them going together in a relationship, fighting for some time, then uniting for a common goal. Azor Ahai is the inspirational leader, Lightbringer is the warrior. Azor Ahai "wields" lightbringer, as in directing Daenerys to take her armies and dragons against the threat from beyond the wall.

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24 minutes ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

I know it, but that seems to be the logic of a lot of people, including military minds. Sacrifice the one to save the many. Jon, being a military minded guy, might see the logic of it.

He is also Ned's "son" and I dont see Ned forgiving this, no matter what the reason.

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I think its more likely that Jon has to consider that Mel has a part to play in the wars to come (just as Mel said of Davos). He is about to fight and army of the dead, and she just happens to be the only necromancer he knows.

With that considered I could see him keeping her locked away in case he needs her at some point. With occasional visits and bits of dialogue between them. He may still eventually execute her though, she may even advise him to.

If he did sentence her to die, Mel would almost undoubetly request a death by fire. The most interesting question would be if Jon would honor that request.

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It is more probable that if someone's death would be connected with the scene from the trailer, it will be Davos rather than Mel who dies. He's gr8 character, but his story came to an end, he's the only surviving Stormlander in the North, and his purpose, unclear even untill now (he was all for Stannis, what he had with Jon before ressurecting) finishes with the knowing of Shireen's fate. If somebody is going to die. That's not an issue of course.

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4 hours ago, Roald Dee said:

What i'v always found interestign about mel is that she seemingly receives different visions  or interprets the visions differently than most of the other red priests we encounter in Essos. They all look to Dany as the savior, whereas Mel never did. Or at least not that we know of.

The interpretation piece comes from what she knows. She knew Stannis, she saw Stannis. In Essos, Dany is a conquering hero(if you aren't a slaver), with dragons. They're bound to be biased towards seeing her in the flames. 

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Mell won't argue with Davos, or lie, or try to justify what she did. I think she will calmly and resignedly confess what happened and what her role was. Mel at this point is still totally lacking confidence. She isn't going to try to defend herself; she is going to ask for and accept Jon's judgment.

And that is a huge responsibility being put on an exhausted and depressed Jon Snow. Remember that up to this point Jon has been Mr. Morality. For him, the ends never justified immoral means. The Jon we know would listen to Mel accepting responsibility, find her guilty, and swing the sword to execute her, himself.

The question is, did Jon learn anything from Rickon's death and Sansa's politicking? Because killing Mel may be the right decision from an immediate moral standpoint, but absolutely the wrong decision in the larger scheme of things. She may be humbled, but she still possesses amazing powers. And with his army decimated by battles and Littlefinger literally moving in and the Night King almost at the gates, he can't afford to sacrifice such a valuable and completely loyal-to-him ally. 

If Jon just continues to be the same kind of self-righteous idiot that Ned and Robb were, he will end up the same way they did. He needs to learn from their mistakes and play the damn game a little bit here.  

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