BlackwaterPark Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 So, is everyone just ignoring the fact that Jon Snow is a deserter? Yes, I know. One could say that dying and being brought back released him from his vows (still arguable, but I like the concept) but are they telling that to everyone? I don't think so, and even if they are, then who would believe it? First episode of the series we see Ned Stark beheading that poor deserter without hesitating, I'd expect any northerner to do the same. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the show completely ignores this, I'm more concerned on how the books will handle it. I don't think GRRM will miss this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksky Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 There's one who didn't ignore it. Ramsay, ironically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaMavs Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Yes - Ramsay mentioned that he would pardon Jon for his desertion of the Night's Watch during their parley. Jon didn't play the resurrection card to explain it though for some reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 If it's true that Jon will be crowned King of the north then this doesn't mean much, after all the north needs someone to be at Winterfell like a firgure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard Dayne Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Not to mention that Ed is for all intents and purposes the new Lord Commander. I'd imagine he could pardon Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chonte Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Jon's watch ended with his death. I think its just a matter of time that it becomes well know. All his men know, the NW all know. Im assuming at this point Sansa knows as well. Besides, it would fall to his Lord Commander to punish him right? And the LC knows what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noveson Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 28 minutes ago, BlackwaterPark said: So, is everyone just ignoring the fact that Jon Snow is a deserter? Yes, I know. One could say that dying and being brought back released him from his vows (still arguable, but I like the concept) but are they telling that to everyone? I don't think so, and even if they are, then who would believe it? First episode of the series we see Ned Stark beheading that poor deserter without hesitating, I'd expect any northerner to do the same. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the show completely ignores this, I'm more concerned on how the books will handle it. I don't think GRRM will miss this fact. ...Just what? The only ones that have encountered Jon either know that he died(wildlings, etc) or did call him out on it(Ramsey and the Boltons). What more do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, Chonte said: Jon's watch ended with his death. I think its just a matter of time that it becomes well know. All his men know, the NW all know. Im assuming at this point Sansa knows as well. Besides, it would fall to his Lord Commander to punish him right? And the LC knows what happened. Who, who was not present for Jon's death and later ressurection, will believe this argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackwaterPark Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, Darksky said: There's one who didn't ignore it. Ramsay, ironically. 5 minutes ago, DaMavs said: Yes - Ramsay mentioned that he would pardon Jon for his desertion of the Night's Watch during their parley. Jon didn't play the resurrection card to explain it though for some reason... Yeah, of course. I'm talking about his possible allies, not about he who was already his enemy. Lady Mormont ignored it, Lord Glover rejected them but seemed to overlook that as well. And now there's the rest of the Northern houses to accept that Winterfell was taken back by an army led by a deserter of the Night's Watch. 6 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said: If it's true that Jon will be crowned King of the north then this doesn't mean much, after all the north needs someone to be at Winterfell like a firgure. I don't think he will. It's Sansa's and his husband to be, by right. Of course there's Bran, only they all they he's dead. 1 minute ago, Chonte said: Jon's watch ended with his death. I think its just a matter of time that it becomes well know. All his men know, the NW all know. Im assuming at this point Sansa knows as well. Besides, it would fall to his Lord Commander to punish him right? And the LC knows what happened. Not just the LC, Ned Stark as Warden Of The North beheaded the deserter. Not sure who's responsibility it is to punish deserters, but deserting the NW has been mentioned several times as something really serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsx_titan Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Its plot armor plain and simple. GRRM had to think of way to release Jon from the Night's Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyen Thuy Tran Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, BlackwaterPark said: I don't think he will. It's Sansa's and his husband to be, by right. Of course there's Bran, only they all they he's dead. Jon will be crowned king of the north, not a girl who has married to 2 of her enemies. The Vale surely would want Sansa to rule Winterfell but the Northern houses don't trust her. They would rather choose a bastard who could fight than Sansa IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 The Night's Watch is a systematically corrupt organization that's murdered their last two Lord Commanders. The only surprising thing is that it took Jon as long as it did for him to say screw this and leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnStormWeaver Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Desertion law comes from the King...do you honestly think the North gives a shit about the King's laws right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackwaterPark Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, Noveson said: ...Just what? The only ones that have encountered Jon either know that he died(wildlings, etc) or did call him out on it(Ramsey and the Boltons). What more do you want? Mormont and Glover. Though I'm thinking more of future accusations. The Vale, the rest of the northern houses that now know an army led by a deserter took back Winterfell... pretty much everyone who wasn't there to see the resurrection. 2 minutes ago, rsx_titan said: Its plot armor plain and simple. GRRM had to think of way to release Jon from the Night's Watch. As I said, I'm good with that, I like the loophole even though it's arguable. Jon Snow can desert knowing he died by the hand of his subordinates, but you still have a whole kingdom where resurrections are not something you see every day to believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 there is no warden of north now to kill Jon, we are in a law loophole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo_Dane Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 It's rather apparent how he'll get around desertion in the books Spoiler Robb likely legitimized Jon in his will In the show I'd imagine that people will continually bring up that he's a deserter and but will not be in any position to do anything about it (Boltons were but Jon won and there's no major houses in the north to enforce his execution). Of course no one is going to care whether he's technically a deserter or not when the WW show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGS Martell Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 "[...] I shall live and die at my post [...] I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch [...]" He lived and he died at his post. That life of his has ended, so there's no desertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Winter Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 16 minutes ago, Chonte said: Jon's watch ended with his death. I think its just a matter of time that it becomes well know. All his men know, the NW all know. Im assuming at this point Sansa knows as well. Besides, it would fall to his Lord Commander to punish him right? And the LC knows what happened. Exactly, and there will be bigger problems that need to be adressed as opposed to Jon being a deserter or not. Don't think anyone will have a problem with Jon leaving. I guess in the near future he will be in overall command of all available forces in the north. Including the NW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Yorick Ampersand Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 There is a war going on and no-one to reinforce the law. Usually it would be the Warden of the North or the King. Power is changing hands too fast in the North for anyone to really bother with small things like that. That aside there is no legal precedent to what happened with Jon. He commanded the NW and got killed by his own brothers. The oath ends when you die. He died. He's a free man of the free folk. The show has addressed this only with Ramsay. I was only surprised that the Glovers and Mormonts didnt say anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Nobody cares. They are war with the dead and the white walkers. Everybody has better things to worry about than whether Jon should be considered a deserter or his death releases from his vows. Nor should they care. This is not the time to worry about petty things like Jon the most suitable leader to fight the white walkers breaking some Night's Watch code. But hey maybe Lady Cersei Stark will care! And she wil behead Jon for deserting to make sure he is no threat to her claim to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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