Jon IS a deserter of the Night's Watch

[Millimidget]

6 hours ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

And Jon will be mentioned as The undead king etc lol

More explicitly, the Night's (Watch) King.

[wolverine]

They're still being laughed at for mentioning white walkers and frozen zombies.  Hard to think people will believe he was resurrected.

 

The NW hardly functions as an organization at this point.  He died, I have no problem accepting that as his vows being fulfilled.  I am sure no NW members every went to Moles Town for a roll in the hay either.

 

 

[Gertrude]

4 hours ago, Vastet said:

We only saw 2. One who supported him and one who didn't.
Why would he be a coward? He never deserted to run from a fight, he ran towards a fight. Whether he's a deserter might be debatable, but noone can call him coward.
 

These are 10 episode seasons, not 20 where they can flesh out so many details that they have to write filler episodes just to take up space. Each scene has a specific goal or goals that must be accomplished. The details you're looking for would be on the cutting room floor even if they'd been filmed, in order for all the other scenes to fit.

They showed two and even though Mormont supported them, she threw a ton of shade on Jon and Sansa first. The detail I was looking for was an extra sentence of dialog from either of them. And as the poster below this quote said, they had time in the season to pad out Tyrion's role, but not to add a few lines of dialog that would show they are aware of things even if they don't want to go into detail about it. I get what Tyrion's scenes were supposed to accomplish, but I don't think they did it well and there was very definitely filler there. Cut out a few cock jokes and they might have time to show some other things. Hell, cut a bit from the Arya's training montage or the oh so exciting and improbable chase scene and you've got even more time.

And I personally wouldn't call Jon a coward, but that wouldn't stop anyone else from calling him one who's ooking on from the outside. What do you call someone who abandons his vows and duty to chase a selfish goal? Perhaps coward isn't the right word, but there are definitively some shady words Glover could have called Jon.

[BlackwaterPark]

4 hours ago, daemonTheBlack said:

Legally , he is obviously not a deserter. That was the whole point of GRRM killing him in the first place. 

Of course others might charge him with desertion. However in the chaos to come, no one will care about these rules. Jon is the only one who would have truly cared. And in his mind, he knows his watch ended legally.

Besides all of NW and Davos, an anointed knight of the realm (yes, that would make a difference to a lot of people), can vouch for his release by death. A King / Queen can further release him.

Also, it does not matter what Ramsay (or anyone else in a world like GoT's) says about their opponents during war. If the Old Gods had released Jon themselves, Ramsay would still call him a deserter because it suits his purpose.

_________

And yes, he could've still chosen to stay in the Nights Watch after being resurrected. He left not due to cowardice, but out of bitterness and disgust over being the Lord Commander who was stabbed to death by his officers for doing the "right" thing (remember his talk with Davos after his resurrection?), and then having to execute the lot of them, including his young prodigy.

His left to unite the North under the rightful lords against the White Walkers, not to run from them.

 

This does quite put my doubts to rest, you are right about the witnesses. And in the book there are even more people (like the Queen's men) and the event of Jon's death was more scandalous to put it some way, instead of a silent and treacherous assassination. And surely there is chaos to come, but nobody realizes that, so until the Westerosi believe the undead are coming for them I'm sure the King's law will apply as ever, so they need to resolve this one or another way. I just remembered besides of a deserter he's bringing a lot of wildings with him, that won't be making him any more popular tbh.

I support Jon's decision btw, I'm just thinking from the perspective of everybody else according to all that I've read on the books and seen on the show. I hope he ends proclaiming himself King in the North, but I'd expect him to be able to do that it in a context that makes sense with the universe we've been introduced to.

[St Daga]

6 hours ago, Silmarien said:

I think it mikght strain credulity to claim Jon was resurrected by a foreign god when Northerners are Old Gods people.  Who would believe him?

Maybe the Red God is one of the Old Gods? It seems very possible.

[tormond]

Who's there to enforce the rules? The north has fallen, even if ramsey had won, nobody truly saw him as warden of the north. Heck he had no rules, he just did what he wanted, and kill anyone on a whim. King's landing no longer has any hold on the north whether Ramsey was at winterfell or now Jon Snow. Rules only matter when there is a force to enforce it.

[Rhollo]

Imho, he clearly is.

Even if you count the Death-and-resurection loophole as a possibillity, he reclaimed his position as LC after his death to execute the mutineers.

If he wasn't LC after his death anymore, he had no authority to do that. So legally, he is either a desterter or a murderer (or both).

Of course the question is, who would put him on trial for that at the moment ?

[Camara]

That can be simple. Lord Commander Edd sends a raven with a message saying "hey folks, Jon Tar...Stark really died and so his vows were fullfilled, so he's ok don't kill him. BTW we need more firewood and rapists, thanks yours, Lord Dolorous. PS: The Night is coming so beware XDXDXD"

[David Selig]

Obviously. But the rules don't apply to the Special Snowflake.

[Chib]

Lol the only lord who took Night Watch deserter rule seriously was Ned. Now that Ned has gone. There is no one to care. The North can say "FXXX YOU" to the King's rule aka Tommen because they don't care for him. I don't think they question Jon's vow to the NW at all. And they care much less about NW. The North secretly want the Stark back, because they're known for their honor. I don't think they're royal to Ramsay. They are just in fear. So now Ramsay is done. They will be happy to have Jon Snow as a war lord. I don't think the North will have any issue with that.  

[The Hound 25]

12 hours ago, Jarl Halstein said:

Well, I hope those rumors aren't true, because it SHOULD be Sansa, or Brandon, taking the throne. Jon Snow is bastard born after all, and for every Stark to be where they are of the most use during the final season it makes sense that Sansa becomes a political leader, hardened by her many trials, while Jon Snow leads forces northward to confront the Others.

Alternately, Sansa takes control of the Vale, which probably requires chopping off a Finger first.

Actually, Jon is the one that led the fight to take Winterfell away from the Boltons therefore the title is his to take. Similar to the way Robert took the throne. I may be wrong, but thats the way i see it

[Darksky]

10 hours ago, Gertrude said:

How many Northern Lords shit talked him when he went asking for help? how many of them called him a cowardly deserter? I didn't expect any of them to execute him when he came with his entourage to talk, but they threw everything else at him to explain why the North is forgetful, throwing in a deserter or two would have meant the show was paying attention.

How many Lords? lol They only showed them visit Mormonts and Glovers, the rest was talked about. Who knows about the details of those meetings 

[Apathetic Onlooker]

7 hours ago, Millimidget said:

Because they've met Beric Dondarrion?

Only the Brotherhood Without Banners would believe Jon could be resurrected because they know that's possible and Melissandre can confirm it (and as believers in the Lord of Light, they would hold her opinion in high regard).  Why would any Northern Lord believe Jon Snow was resurrected?  Even if every man on the Night's Watch confirmed it, they don't hold such opinions highly.  They don't believe the Watch when they talk about the horrors beyond the wall, like the White Walkers.  The Northern lords don't believe in the Red God, they don't believe in White Walkers, and they don't believe in magic or resurrection or any such thing.  

As far as they're concerned, either a.) Jon Snow deserted, or b.)  the Night's Watch allowed him to go which makes them arguably complicit not only in oathbreaking but meddling in southern affairs (since that's what Jon is doing now).   About the only lords I can see that would believe Jon might well be the Mormonts or the Umbers (Greatjon I think believed in the White Walkers and respected the place of the Watch).  The others would be hardpressed to accept his story and would have to decide "Are we going to accept that Jon has broken his vows?"  even if to Jon, he didn't.

[Frimmel]

17 hours ago, Rory Snow said:

The Night's Watch itself doesn't consider Jon a deserter, therefore, no problem.

Not read the whole thread so...

I think here's your answer. The Watch has more or less sent him south to organize further defense against the white walkers and their army of wights. Men of the watch are sent south to get men and supplies or study at The Citadel. Simply not being at the wall doesn't make one a deserter. 

[Zering]

Note that Edd is current ACTING commander of the Night's Watch.
Which means that Jon Snow is still its commander and has not deserted.
He simply is on a mission to organize the defences against the White Walkers south of the wall.

[Chonte]

On June 20, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Who, who was not present for Jon's death and later ressurection, will believe this argument?

It doesnt matter. People will beleive what they are told. The LC would tell the tale and Sansa who technicaly was married to the warden of the north. Who else would have the authority to TRY and punish him? Its not like no one has heard of the magic a red preist before.

and really.... He just needs to lift up his shirt. All his wounds were still there last we saw.

[Chonte]

On June 20, 2016 at 2:56 PM, BlackwaterPark said:

Not just the LC, Ned Stark as Warden Of The North beheaded the deserter. Not sure who's responsibility it is to punish deserters, but deserting the NW has been mentioned several times as something really serious.

But if the NW doesn't report him as a deserter then it doesn't matter anyway

[zorkman]

As the Lord Commander he will have to execute the deserter himself. Looks like HariKari is the only way out Jonny boy.

[Ser Hyle]

On 6/20/2016 at 3:09 PM, AGS Martell said:

"[...] I shall live and die at my post [...] I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch [...]"

He lived and he died at his post. That life of his has ended, so there's no desertion.

Yes. He lived and died at his post. Now he lives, so when he dies next what excuses him from it being at his post as he pledged?

If you're going to cherry pick, your argument would be better served with this: "...It shall not end until my death...."

But then there's this:

"...I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

It wouldn't require a lawyer of Jackie Childs' calibre to argue that since he has more nights, he owes them to the Night's Watch.

[jandslegate]

I mean, for all any of the characters know, he could simply say Stannis released him from his vow. Or he could simply say, I left because I said so. I really don't think it matters. The bigger picture that all of the protagonists are facing is that none of the Seven Kingdoms shenanigans matter when compared to the threat coming from beyond the wall. Jon took part in reclaiming WInterfel and ,yes, there was definitely some personal reasoning behind it, but ultimately he saw a unified North as a necessity. The Northern houses will be the front lines against the WW's. They are the real 'wall'. It may not currently matter who believes the Walkers are real. Soon enough, the proof will be sweeping over them all. Before episode ten ends I'm confident we will see that winter has arrived. 

 

EDIT: 

Also, in relation to his actual vows, I think the point is simply that Jon sees how broken the Nights Watch is and maybe just maybe he's learned a bit from Ned's mistakes and understands what 'honour' gets you in the end. Time and time again, the story puts into play how paradoxical the concept of honor and vows are. Living honorably or by some code only works if everyone plays by the same rules. I doubt the White Walkers are going to offer an enemy another lance when battle breaks out. Honor is all well and good, but survival is far more important.