Logically, Littlefinger has to die now, right?

[lancerman]

41 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

She already has WF? With LF dead the Vale army will no longer be under his command - at which point she can use her relationship with SR and/or the Vale lords to bind the army to her will. This is a hundred times less risky strategy than trying to beat LF at his own game.

She has Winterfell with the Vale's army. Her forces just got decimated. The North is in no position to fight after going through the War of the Five Kings, then taking back their homes from the Greyjoys, then facing Stannis, then decimating each other even further in the Battle of the Bastards.

So currently the most dominate army in the North is the Knights of the Vale. Led by Robin, whose favorite person in the whole world is LF. So if she kills LF, she is gambling that Sweet Robin doesn't freak out and say "make her fly". It's an extremely risky strategy. Robin is a wildcard, LF for all the things he is, is controlling him. She knew she was making a deal with the devil. She knows right now that no matter what LF accuses her of, all he has to do is call her a liar and Robin will probably will side with him. O

Oh and in the off chance she does kill LF and Robin does nothing, the Vale is leaving the North unprotected. Oh and wait a minute, Sansa is still wanted for the murder of Joffrey. Nobody down South is going to let that go. Not Cersie, not Tommen, not the Faith who have a penchant for punishing people and now have a secure relationship with Tommen, hell even Margeary is obligated to seek justice. So not only is it a massive gamble, it leaves her and Winterfell entirely unprotected.

And that's before you consider that Sansa apparently believes the White Walkers are coming. So the grand plan is to even further divide the Kingdom by splitting the Vale who just got out of neutral from the North?

There's so many reasons why LF is worth keeping around even if you know he has his own plans. He knows how to make himself valuable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[daemonTheBlack]

Littlefinger (and Euron) are allies / agents of the Night's King. He will be there till the end.

[Maid So Fair]

6 hours ago, jandslegate said:

Fair enough, lol. I was just hoping this time might be the one where they stop making her a pawn, silly, I know. 

Oh trust me I know how you feel 

5 hours ago, lancerman said:

She has Winterfell with the Vale's army. Her forces just got decimated. The North is in no position to fight after going through the War of the Five Kings, then taking back their homes from the Greyjoys, then facing Stannis, then decimating each other even further in the Battle of the Bastards.

So currently the most dominate army in the North is the Knights of the Vale. Led by Robin, whose favorite person in the whole world is LF. So if she kills LF, she is gambling that Sweet Robin doesn't freak out and say "make her fly". It's an extremely risky strategy. Robin is a wildcard, LF for all the things he is, is controlling him. She knew she was making a deal with the devil. She knows right now that no matter what LF accuses her of, all he has to do is call her a liar and Robin will probably will side with him. O

Oh and in the off chance she does kill LF and Robin does nothing, the Vale is leaving the North unprotected. Oh and wait a minute, Sansa is still wanted for the murder of Joffrey. Nobody down South is going to let that go. Not Cersie, not Tommen, not the Faith who have a penchant for punishing people and now have a secure relationship with Tommen, hell even Margeary is obligated to seek justice. So not only is it a massive gamble, it leaves her and Winterfell entirely unprotected.

And that's before you consider that Sansa apparently believes the White Walkers are coming. So the grand plan is to even further divide the Kingdom by splitting the Vale who just got out of neutral from the North?

There's so many reasons why LF is worth keeping around even if you know he has his own plans. He knows how to make himself valuable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is just buying into LF's hype, which he is great at convincing people of. He likes to make people think that he's indispensable and that things would fall to pieces without him around but that's not really the case. Him not being around would create issues, sure, but nothing compared to the damage he will inevitably cause by being around. Anyone who thinks, for a second, they can control LF is a fool. And Sansa, at this point in the story really shouldn't be, especially after what he did to her last season.

Her forces just got decimated - at least partially if not mainly through her own idiocy and willingness to prop up LF at the expense of herself and her family's cause - that alone should give her pause if she thinks she can outmanouver him. One snide remark and she dropped the ball.

As for the knights of the Vale, I think you are exaggerating LF's influence here. Sure, Robin see!s to like the guy but he also likes Sansa and he's a capricious little POS. How is he going to react once he learns that LF killed Lysa? And with LF gone, I can't see him mourning him for long - maybe until next distraction shows up. He's also very easy to manipulate if you are willing to play up to his importance - a few gifts and he's willing to march his army. And since it's likely she offered herself to LF as his reward, why not continue with the idea of marrying SR? That way the Vale forces are hers as well. Or even make a deal with the Vale lords behind SR's back to cover up LF's death - I'm sure they'll be as glad to get rid of him as the next person. LF's power has always been a house of cards.

Peopledown south have been letting the whole affair go for months now because they have their own problems to deal with. Before the crown can even start thinking about the Starks up North they like need to set out the Faith and once they've done that there's the small matter of Dorne  starting n open rebellion by murdering the crown princess. They're in no position to act. 

Distrusting LF would be the smartest thing she's done since she got off her horse. Every single person who thought that LF was useful and could be controlled got screwed over and probably wishes by the end they had just killed him, which she knows better than anybody. 

[Chib]

6 hours ago, lancerman said:

And that's before you consider that Sansa apparently believes the White Walkers are coming. So the grand plan is to even further divide the Kingdom by splitting the Vale who just got out of neutral from the North?

There's so many reasons why LF is worth keeping around even if you know he has his own plans. He knows how to make himself valuable.

Yeah but if Sansa somehow get married to Robin and find a way to desert LF, it would be great for her plan.

The North is pretty much doomed. How many men left for them to fight at all? When the WW come, I guess everyone in the North will flee. So there is a huge possibility Jon and the North army will have to run to Riverunn. 

[Camara]

I don't think LF will die yet. Yes there will be sheninigans by Sansa but she knows they need the Vale to retake the Riverlands (part of the Kingdom of the North), and without LF the Vale will have no reason to fight for the North (I think the Vale Lords would easily accept LF death as they don't trust him and they would let Robyn's cousin, Sansa, become a regent that listens to the Vale Lords instead of sneaky LF, and refusing Robyn's orders as she is not his subject and he is a child after all).

[crlovel]

At the end of all of this, LF will be on the Iron Throne.

[ummester]

15 hours ago, WSmith84 said:

I mean, once Sansa mentions to the Lords of the Vale how she was married to the Boltons and not kidnapped like Littlefinger claimed the only logical thing to do is execute him, right? He took the knights of the Vale to fight a battle under false pretenses (he tricked Sweetrobin and blackmailed Royce into going North long before they received Sansa's raven), gave Sansa to the Boltons and lied to his liege Lord and stepson. Surely that all deserves an execution, by Westerosi standards.

LF now has the biggest army in the north.

We just saw all the northern armies pile themselves up in bodies under arrows and LFs Vale army come in to mop up the pieces. We heard Ramsay say Jon's army is gone and Ramsay's soldier respond so is ours.

LF is now the only person in the north with any military might, I doubt he will die. It's more likely he'll ask Sansa to marry him and she'll say yes because she needs his Vale army to protect her from The Lannister/Tyrell army.

[Winter_Is_Coming21]

16 hours ago, Baelor_the_Blessed said:

As horrid as his act of handing her over to the Boltons was, it's also equally true that the Starks would not have retaken Winterfell without his help.

I don't think she sells him out. 

Except, LF is 'the' reason why Starks got dragged into this whole sh#%!! (Remember Lysa's letter to Cat in the beginning!?)

I am curious to see how remaining Starks will react after knowing this? Will they ever know this??

[Chib]

12 minutes ago, Winter_Is_Coming21 said:

Except, LF is 'the' reason why Starks got dragged into this whole sh#%!! (Remember Lysa's letter to Cat in the beginning!?)

I am curious to see how remaining Starks will react after knowing this? Will they ever know this??

They have Bran, he will have to find a way to tell Jon and Sansa about this. 

[Winter_Is_Coming21]

16 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

His family sigil is the Titan of Braavos. The Mockingbird is only his personal sigil.

You made my day!! I hope LF goes to sme hungry Direwolf!! But are you sure Titan of the Braavos = Giant? Literally or Figuratively?

[Nerevanin]

So a logical thing to do with someone who just saved your ass is to execute him? I'm sorry but I don't see anything logic about that.

[MoonWoman]

32 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

So a logical thing to do with someone who just saved your ass is to execute him? I'm sorry but I don't see anything logic about that.

Exactly. And LF has saved Sansa 3x now. Yes he killed Lysa and she was the only witness, but Lysa was about to throw Sansa out the moon door. Then he saved her from KL. And then shows up with the Vale forces to save the day. She knows he's no good, but she will keep him around. In fact, Sansa is not calling any shots here. Yes she is finally playing the game, but LF is still calling the shots with her. So the better question is what does LF want with Sansa?

[Nerevanin]

2 minutes ago, MoonWoman said:

Exactly. And LF has saved Sansa 3x now. Yes he killed Lysa and she was the only witness, but Lysa was about to throw Sansa out the moon door. Then he saved her from KL. And then shows up with the Vale forces to save the day. She knows he's no good, but she will keep him around. In fact, Sansa is not calling any shots here. Yes she is finally playing the game, but LF is still calling the shots with her. So the better question is what does LF want with Sansa?

Yeah. At this point Sansa and LF seem to be natural allies. If the rumours are true and

Jon become the King in the North

Sansa's plan to become a powerful lady will sink like Titanic. She wants power, Littlefinger wants Sansa and power. Considering that Sansa has nobody powerful left but LF, he is her only chance to actually become powerful, especially if she marries him.

[DarkerStar]

10 minutes ago, MoonWoman said:

Exactly. And LF has saved Sansa 3x now. Yes he killed Lysa and she was the only witness, but Lysa was about to throw Sansa out the moon door. Then he saved her from KL. And then shows up with the Vale forces to save the day. She knows he's no good, but she will keep him around. In fact, Sansa is not calling any shots here. Yes she is finally playing the game, but LF is still calling the shots with her. So the better question is what does LF want with Sansa?

First is your name a reference to Lanfear? If so awesome. and my answer for your question is that LF has always seen Sansa as the key to him getting control of the North.

[Apathetic Onlooker]

14 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

She already has WF? With LF dead the Vale army will no longer be under his command - at which point she can use her relationship with SR and/or the Vale lords to bind the army to her will. This is a hundred times less risky strategy than trying to beat LF at his own game.

Precisely.  I could forgive it if Sansa actually DID have plans involving Littlefinger and succeeded in manipulating events toward a purpose to secure her own power in case she couldn't do it without him; but without that plan being shown or without seeing her scheming it out, it doesn't change the fact that her not initially killing him when she had the chance was contrived.  Hell, if she gets the opportunity now in Winterfell and doesn't take the chance, it's contrived.  Why leave yourself in debt to a man you KNOW is incredibly dangerous and capable of stabbing you in the back at any time?  

[Cas Stark]

4 hours ago, ummester said:

LF now has the biggest army in the north.

We just saw all the northern armies pile themselves up in bodies under arrows and LFs Vale army come in to mop up the pieces. We heard Ramsay say Jon's army is gone and Ramsay's soldier respond so is ours.

LF is now the only person in the north with any military might, I doubt he will die. It's more likely he'll ask Sansa to marry him and she'll say yes because she needs his Vale army to protect her from The Lannister/Tyrell army.

Even though she could have had Brienne kill him and would have had the Vale army from the get go.  And even though she could execute him post WF battle and have the army without having to deal with a deceitful POS.  She will choose the most illogical, destructive course, as she already has....and will let him hang around.  LOL.

ETA. Of course he should already be dead, he should have had an "accident" upon leaving Winterfell after Sansa was dropped off w/Roose Bolton, or another "accident" on the way to Winterfell after tipping his hand that Royce is expendable. 

[The Dames do Moan]

19 hours ago, Zoo_Dane said:

I don't believe so. I think Sansa and Littlefinger have an understanding.

The Boltons are extinct and, as they say, the winners write the history books. Sansa is the only one with the knowledge LF lied about her being kidnapped by the Boltons. 

She should keep quiet about that to maintain LFs help to entrench the Starks as Wardens/Kings of the North again. 

Probably mentioned up thread, didn't read it all yet, bad form by me.

But doesn't Brienne have that knowledge as well? She followed LF and Sansa all the way to Moat Cailin and then to Winterfell. She knows the Bolton's didn't ambush them after they left the Royce's the first time. She could potentially play spoiler if Podrick doesn't follow Gendry's directions.

[Charlie Hustle]

17 hours ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

The biggest issue is that she can't fight in battle herself so the soldiers will not follow her unless she has a very loyal commander under her rule. Vale doesn't listen to her. They helped her this time because of political reasons. You would think they go all the way to Riverun just because Sansa tell them so? "Destroy the Frey for me?" Even if she married Robin, it won't be much easy to control that army all round. 

If she wants to become second Cersei, she needs someone like Jamie or Moutain by her side. I doubt that Little Finger is that person. The best chance Sansa can get is from a family member and there is only Jon. Now if she is smart she would have seen that making Jon fight for her is better than throwing him out of Winterfell because of her mother's hatred towards him. She has no one left, actually. If she is wise she should have ensured so Jon and his supporters get less damage as much as possible. 

Jon isnt going to let her get too far into politics. Jon's vision isnt south towards kings landing, its north, past the wall. Im more than sure that if sansa has a plan to try to rule as much as possible, Jon would tell her that she is on her own with that plan. The whole objective was to unite the north, not because of the Lannisters, nor the Freys, nor the Boltons, but the Others. Jon has seen what is coming south and Sansa was there to hear Davos tell Lyannna about the long night thats coming.

[Zoo_Dane]

44 minutes ago, The Dames do Moan said:

Probably mentioned up thread, didn't read it all yet, bad form by me.

But doesn't Brienne have that knowledge as well? She followed LF and Sansa all the way to Moat Cailin and then to Winterfell. She knows the Bolton's didn't ambush them after they left the Royce's the first time. She could potentially play spoiler if Podrick doesn't follow Gendry's directions.

Brienne would know but since she has pledged her loyalty and service to Sansa it's not her place to undermine her. Losing LF would weaken Sansa right now, you'd have to think Sansa is the one who will end LF at the right time, not Brienne betraying Sansa's trust to tell on LF. 

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

37 minutes ago, Charlie Hustle said:

Jon isnt going to let her get too far into politics. Jon's vision isnt south towards kings landing, its north, past the wall. Im more than sure that if sansa has a plan to try to rule as much as possible, Jon would tell her that she is on her own with that plan. The whole objective was to unite the north, not because of the Lannisters, nor the Freys, nor the Boltons, but the Others. Jon has seen what is coming south and Sansa was there to hear Davos tell Lyannna about the long night thats coming.

I'm still thinking Sansa and other lords would still dive in politics despite Jon's warning. I bet most of them will run Riverrun and down to the south when the wall crumble. Maybe only by that time they will take WW seriously.