How did the Vale army get past Moat Cailin?

[WSmith84]

Surely it was guarded? And surely someone would have warned Ramsey about the huge, foreign army invading his territory, right?

[Frimmel]

Possibly given back to the Reeds after the Boltons took care of the Ironborn. The Reeds would likely be willing to let the men of The Vale pass to help the Starks. Possibly Howland Reed even came North looking for his children and the truth about Jon's parentage. 

[Ser_Luke]

They were likely moving quickly to respond to Sansa's letter. They probably bypassed Moat Caitlin, although I think we are just supposed to forget about Moat Caitlin's strategic position. I hadn't considered it until I read your post. Nice catch.

[Rumy Stark]

1 hour ago, WSmith84 said:

Surely it was guarded? And surely someone would have warned Ramsey about the huge, foreign army invading his territory, right?

I mean this is definitely the biggest plothole from the episode. There is not really a good answer. 

Just now, Ser_Luke said:

They were likely moving quickly to respond to Sansa's letter. They probably bypassed Moat Caitlin, although I think we are just supposed to forget about Moat Caitlin's strategic position. I hadn't considered it until I read your post. Nice catch.

In ep 5 LF told Sansa the army was camped at Moat Caelin, so they definitely did not bypass it. 

[Ser_Luke]

Just now, Rumy Stark said:

I mean this is definitely the biggest plothole from the episode. There is not really a good answer. 

In ep 5 LF told Sansa the army was camped at Moat Caelin, so they definitely did not bypass it. 

Oh! Didn't remember that bit. That helps explains how they mobilized so quickly outside Winterfell. Seven blessings to you!

[Count Winter]

Good question. Don't think the show wants us to think about those 'details'. Cannot believe GRRM gonna tell us the same story about the Vale army riding north. 

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

2 minutes ago, Count Winter said:

Good question. Don't think the show wants us to think about those 'details'. Cannot believe GRRM gonna tell us the same story about the Vale army riding north. 

Plot convenience by the show lol. I think in the book there might be some event happened there.

[Apathetic Onlooker]

Plot convenience.  Magic.  Destiny.  The heart of the cards.  Pick one.

[Future Null Infinity]

Jetpacks, courtesy of Littelfinger Aerospace Industries 

[BulletTooth_Tony]

Well, the last time we saw it on TV, Theon took it, and then Ramsay had everyone that occupied it massacred. Was it ever re-occupied? It is in ruins, in any event - appeared to be in worse shape than my imagination pictured it.

I also believe they marched thru it when Sansa and Littlefinger went to Winterfell together. It wasn't a very big deal.

Putting on my book hat, if the Knights of the Vale crossed by boat, Moat Cailin is like the Maginot Line and can't defend itself from advances from anywhere but the South... So in the books, Victarian took it with ease from the east.

[BulletTooth_Tony]

12 minutes ago, Count Winter said:

Good question. Don't think the show wants us to think about those 'details'. Cannot believe GRRM gonna tell us the same story about the Vale army riding north. 

It very well could, with Sansa being the major player again. Add in Bronze Yohn who begged to join Robb's fight and you'd have a huge supporter to do anything for Ned and his children.

[Stannistician]

1 minute ago, BulletTooth_Tony said:

Well, the last time we saw it on TV, Theon took it, and then Ramsay had everyone that occupied it massacred. Was it ever re-occupied? It is in ruins, in any event.

I also believe they marched thru it when Sansa and Littlefinger went to Winterfell together. It wasn't a very big deal.

Putting on my book hat, if the Knights of the Vale crossed by boat, Moat Cailin is like the Maginot Line and can't defend itself from advances from anywhere but the South... So in the books, Victarian took it with ease from the east.

Sansa and LF marched through it because Roose was expecting them.  They were guests.  This season, LF told Sansa that the Vale army was already at Moat Calin, so no boat. 

 

[ErasmusF]

It was probably as it's been for a long time. Deserted. 

Why would Ramsay set a watch from the South? His allies control the Riverlands. He has no reason to think of Littlefinger as anything but an ally, nor suspect he could move the Vale to attack Winterfell without provocation. . 

[Stannistician]

5 minutes ago, ErasmusF said:

It was probably as it's been for a long time. Deserted. 

Why would Ramsay set a watch from the South? His allies control the Riverlands. He has no reason to think of Littlefinger as anything but an ally, nor suspect he could move the Vale to attack Winterfell without provocation. . 

What allies does Ramsay have in the Riverlands?  He killed Walda and her son.  Also, Roose reminded Ramsay earlier this season that the crown may be coming up north to take them out because they stupidly broke their alliance with the crown to marry Ramsay to Sansa in order to gain northern support (which as it turns out they didn't need to do because the north doesn't give a shit about the Starks anyway). 

Ramsay had every reason to defend Moat Calin.

[Net-Viper X]

They used Fire Mares. Fire Mares can travel a thousand leagues in a day, and they do that by flying through the air on flaming hooves. They just flew right over Moat Cailin.

 

 

 

Krull reference for those who are less vintage than myself.

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

8 minutes ago, ErasmusF said:

It was probably as it's been for a long time. Deserted. 

Why would Ramsay set a watch from the South? His allies control the Riverlands. He has no reason to think of Littlefinger as anything but an ally, nor suspect he could move the Vale to attack Winterfell without provocation. . 

I can think of at least 3 reasons:

• Walder Frey, whose granddaughter Ramsay fed to the dogs
• The Lannisters/Tyrells/Iron Throne, whose will Ramsay disrespected by marrying an enemy of the Crown
• Littlefinger, to whom Ramsay gave his word that he wasn't going to harm Sansa

[Jarl Halstein]

2 hours ago, WSmith84 said:

Surely it was guarded? And surely someone would have warned Ramsey about the huge, foreign army invading his territory, right?

Exactly the question I asked. Moat Cailin is supposed to be nearly impossible to take - so impossible that Ramsay had to send Theon there, betting that he wouldn't just stay with the Ironborn. The books say Moat Cailin can keep thousands of men at bay.

To those who say maybe it just wasn't guarded - why the hell wouldn't the house holding the North guard the one bottleneck that can keep the many belligerent armies of the volatile South from pouring in? It's like leaving the door to your house unlocked right next to a battlefield. Even in peace time you don't do that, and this is definitely not peace time.

 

[BulletTooth_Tony]

1 hour ago, Stannistician said:

Sansa and LF marched through it because Roose was expecting them.  They were guests.  This season, LF told Sansa that the Vale army was already at Moat Calin, so no boat. 

 

Already at Moat Cailin - method of travel unannounced. So boat is a very real possibility.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, Ser_Luke said:

They were likely moving quickly to respond to Sansa's letter. They probably bypassed Moat Caitlin, although I think we are just supposed to forget about Moat Caitlin's strategic position. I hadn't considered it until I read your post. Nice catch.

Moving fast it's still weeks from Winterfell in good weather.

[Stannistician]

2 minutes ago, BulletTooth_Tony said:

Already at Moat Cailin - method of travel unannounced. So boat is a very real possibility.

If they are already at Moat Calin, then there would be no reason to take a boat to bypass Moat Calin.  And there would be no reason to take a boat from Vale to Moat Calin because it leaves you with the same problem.